MIKE Hunter's smaller car thesis??

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:88Rii.1868$Pv2.597@trnddc03...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> news:MiQii.1866$Pv2.690@trnddc03...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>> news:S%Pii.3325$bO2.3131@trnddc05...
>>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>>>> newsePii.16305$MR5.10546@trndny02...
>>>>>>> larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> George W. Bush has not had any alcohol in a long time; since long
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> he became President.
>>>>>>>> It wasn't alcohol-free beer that he drank at the recent G-8 summit
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Germany, nor did he miss next morning's activities solely due to
>>>>>>>> tummy
>>>>>>>> trouble. At least he didn't get drunk and shoot someone in the
>>>>>>>> face,
>>>>>>>> as Cheney did.
>>>>>>> Please provide evidence about how much beer he drank in Germany. My
>>>>>>> understanding is that he doesn't drink at all any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> Maybe. I still wonder why he fondled the chancellor, though.
>>>>> You know, when you make up things about the President, you hurt your
>>>>> argument.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should know better.
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, he does so much to hurt his own cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Because I'm a nice guy, I'll give you one chance to recant your
>>>> statement before I provide you with video footage of Bush
>>>> inappropriately touching the chancellor, and her reaction.
>>>>
>>>> Do you recant your statement?
>>> Why would I recant my statement? I have no knowledge of the President
>>> touching her in any appropriate way, and your state behavior to date
>>> doesn't give me much confidence in your statement.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff, you really need to become a better citizen and pay attention to the
>> news.
>>
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1823983.shtml
>
> The CBS news describes her reaction as: "The chancellor immediately
> hunches her shoulders, throws her arms up and grimaces, though she appears
> to smile as Mr. Bush walks away."
>
> How horrible.
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dfrHT8o-0A
>>
>> I play in a band, so obviously, I spend lots of time observing drunk
>> people. What Bush did is pretty common* behavior for drunk guys in bars.
>> They have no clue about the physical space that most people consider the
>> norm. They walk up to a woman and massage her shoulders, but since they
>> have no idea how to do it, they annoy the woman, and perhaps give her a
>> muscle knot that hurts for 20 minutes.
>
> Gee, it didn't look like a bar to me. I saw no evidence that Bush was
> drunk, and to the best of my knowledge, Bush has not had a drink since
> before he first ran for President.
>
>> A second definition, applicable to Bush's behavior in the video:
>> Common - 5 a: falling below ordinary standards : second-rate b: lacking
>> refinement : coarse
>
> I am not going to judge him on a silly little backrub when I all I saw was
> 5 seconds of video out of context.
>
> Unless you have something substantial to add to this conversation, I am
> not going to reply to you again on this.
>
> IMHO, it was a innocent should rub, a sign of friendship.

If that's what GWB thought, he better get a clue, social norms.

Cathy


>
> Your jumping to a conclusion that Mr. Bush was drinking and calling it
> fondling, IMHO, is totally off-base.
>
> Jeff

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:MiQii.1866$Pv2.690@trnddc03...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>> news:S%Pii.3325$bO2.3131@trnddc05...
>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>>> newsePii.16305$MR5.10546@trndny02...
>>>>>> larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> George W. Bush has not had any alcohol in a long time; since long
>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>> he became President.
>>>>>>> It wasn't alcohol-free beer that he drank at the recent G-8 summit in
>>>>>>> Germany, nor did he miss next morning's activities solely due to
>>>>>>> tummy
>>>>>>> trouble. At least he didn't get drunk and shoot someone in the face,
>>>>>>> as Cheney did.
>>>>>> Please provide evidence about how much beer he drank in Germany. My
>>>>>> understanding is that he doesn't drink at all any more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>> Maybe. I still wonder why he fondled the chancellor, though.
>>>> You know, when you make up things about the President, you hurt your
>>>> argument.
>>>>
>>>> You should know better.
>>>>
>>>> After all, he does so much to hurt his own cause.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Because I'm a nice guy, I'll give you one chance to recant your statement
>>> before I provide you with video footage of Bush inappropriately touching
>>> the chancellor, and her reaction.
>>>
>>> Do you recant your statement?
>> Why would I recant my statement? I have no knowledge of the President
>> touching her in any appropriate way, and your state behavior to date
>> doesn't give me much confidence in your statement.
>>
>> Jeff
>
> Jeff, you really need to become a better citizen and pay attention to the
> news.
>
> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1823983.shtml

The CBS news describes her reaction as: "The chancellor immediately
hunches her shoulders, throws her arms up and grimaces, though she
appears to smile as Mr. Bush walks away."

How horrible.

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dfrHT8o-0A
>
> I play in a band, so obviously, I spend lots of time observing drunk people.
> What Bush did is pretty common* behavior for drunk guys in bars. They have
> no clue about the physical space that most people consider the norm. They
> walk up to a woman and massage her shoulders, but since they have no idea
> how to do it, they annoy the woman, and perhaps give her a muscle knot that
> hurts for 20 minutes.

Gee, it didn't look like a bar to me. I saw no evidence that Bush was
drunk, and to the best of my knowledge, Bush has not had a drink since
before he first ran for President.

> A second definition, applicable to Bush's behavior in the video:
> Common - 5 a: falling below ordinary standards : second-rate b: lacking
> refinement : coarse

I am not going to judge him on a silly little backrub when I all I saw
was 5 seconds of video out of context.

Unless you have something substantial to add to this conversation, I am
not going to reply to you again on this.

IMHO, it was a innocent should rub, a sign of friendship.

Your jumping to a conclusion that Mr. Bush was drinking and calling it
fondling, IMHO, is totally off-base.

Jeff

Cathy F. wrote:
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:C2Rii.6647$fw2.2758@trnddc04...
>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>> news:UBQii.4236$Of2.3624@trnddc06...
>>>
>>>>> It was on TV news broadcasts at the time, & if you Google "Bush German
>>>>> Chancellor" you can find articles about it, along w/video, no problem.
>>>>> He gave her an uninvited shoulder massage as he passed behind her
>>>>> chair, & her body language reaction was along the lines of "Arghhh" or
>>>>> "Iccck!"
>>>> I would not use the word "fondle" to describe this.
>>>>
>>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> You wouldn't, but her reaction clearly indicated that it was
>>> inappropriate and undesirable.
>> We saw what? six seconds of action? We don't know the context. It could
>> have been highly offensive or just a joke or a gesture of friendship. And,
>> IMHO, her reaction indicated surprise at an unexpected shoulder massage.
>>
>> From what I've read, it was just a friendly gesture that had no sexual
>> connotation at all.
>>
>> At any rate, I disagree with calling this 3 second shoulder rub,
>> undesirable or not, "fondling."
>
> Look at her facial expression & the tenseness of her shoulders, up in the
> air. That overture was obviously *not* a welcome one. (I hope Laura gave
> him hell about it later; nothing to do w/jealousy, but the
> inappropriateness of the touch.)

She was surprised. The is what her facial expression shows to me. She
appeared to smile as he walked away.

I know what the overall context is, but I don't know whether they were
just meeting or chatting a few minutes before they were sitting down or
what. That is the context to which I am referring.

I fail to see what the big deal of this is.

A shoulder rub when hundreds of thousands of American lives are
disrupted by a war? This disccussion is a waste of electrons.

Unless you have somethng substantial to say, I won't have anything else
to say on it.

Jeff

> Cathy
>
>
>> Jeff
>
>

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:88Rii.1868$Pv2.597@trnddc03...
> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> news:MiQii.1866$Pv2.690@trnddc03...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>> news:S%Pii.3325$bO2.3131@trnddc05...
>>>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>>>> newsePii.16305$MR5.10546@trndny02...
>>>>>>> larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> George W. Bush has not had any alcohol in a long time; since long
>>>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>>>> he became President.
>>>>>>>> It wasn't alcohol-free beer that he drank at the recent G-8 summit
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> Germany, nor did he miss next morning's activities solely due to
>>>>>>>> tummy
>>>>>>>> trouble. At least he didn't get drunk and shoot someone in the
>>>>>>>> face,
>>>>>>>> as Cheney did.
>>>>>>> Please provide evidence about how much beer he drank in Germany. My
>>>>>>> understanding is that he doesn't drink at all any more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeff
>>>>>> Maybe. I still wonder why he fondled the chancellor, though.
>>>>> You know, when you make up things about the President, you hurt your
>>>>> argument.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should know better.
>>>>>
>>>>> After all, he does so much to hurt his own cause.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> Because I'm a nice guy, I'll give you one chance to recant your
>>>> statement before I provide you with video footage of Bush
>>>> inappropriately touching the chancellor, and her reaction.
>>>>
>>>> Do you recant your statement?
>>> Why would I recant my statement? I have no knowledge of the President
>>> touching her in any appropriate way, and your state behavior to date
>>> doesn't give me much confidence in your statement.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>> Jeff, you really need to become a better citizen and pay attention to the
>> news.
>>
>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1823983.shtml
>
> The CBS news describes her reaction as: "The chancellor immediately
> hunches her shoulders, throws her arms up and grimaces, though she appears
> to smile as Mr. Bush walks away."
>
> How horrible.
>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dfrHT8o-0A
>>
>> I play in a band, so obviously, I spend lots of time observing drunk
>> people. What Bush did is pretty common* behavior for drunk guys in bars.
>> They have no clue about the physical space that most people consider the
>> norm. They walk up to a woman and massage her shoulders, but since they
>> have no idea how to do it, they annoy the woman, and perhaps give her a
>> muscle knot that hurts for 20 minutes.
>
> Gee, it didn't look like a bar to me. I saw no evidence that Bush was
> drunk, and to the best of my knowledge, Bush has not had a drink since
> before he first ran for President.
>
>> A second definition, applicable to Bush's behavior in the video:
>> Common - 5 a: falling below ordinary standards : second-rate b: lacking
>> refinement : coarse
>
> I am not going to judge him on a silly little backrub when I all I saw was
> 5 seconds of video out of context.
>
> Unless you have something substantial to add to this conversation, I am
> not going to reply to you again on this.
>
> IMHO, it was a innocent should rub, a sign of friendship.
>
> Your jumping to a conclusion that Mr. Bush was drinking and calling it
> fondling, IMHO, is totally off-base.
>
> Jeff

I didn't say alcohol had anything to do with his behavior in the video. I
mentioned the bar because alcohol *does* cause some people to lose touch
with what is appropriate behavior. If anything, the conclusion you could
draw was that Bush, being sober, should've known better.

How old are you?

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:hbRii.1870$Pv2.477@trnddc03...
> Cathy F. wrote:
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> news:C2Rii.6647$fw2.2758@trnddc04...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>> news:UBQii.4236$Of2.3624@trnddc06...
>>>>
>>>>>> It was on TV news broadcasts at the time, & if you Google "Bush
>>>>>> German Chancellor" you can find articles about it, along w/video, no
>>>>>> problem. He gave her an uninvited shoulder massage as he passed
>>>>>> behind her chair, & her body language reaction was along the lines of
>>>>>> "Arghhh" or "Iccck!"
>>>>> I would not use the word "fondle" to describe this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> You wouldn't, but her reaction clearly indicated that it was
>>>> inappropriate and undesirable.
>>> We saw what? six seconds of action? We don't know the context. It could
>>> have been highly offensive or just a joke or a gesture of friendship.
>>> And, IMHO, her reaction indicated surprise at an unexpected shoulder
>>> massage.
>>>
>>> From what I've read, it was just a friendly gesture that had no sexual
>>> connotation at all.
>>>
>>> At any rate, I disagree with calling this 3 second shoulder rub,
>>> undesirable or not, "fondling."
>>
>> Look at her facial expression & the tenseness of her shoulders, up in the
>> air. That overture was obviously *not* a welcome one. (I hope Laura
>> gave him hell about it later; nothing to do w/jealousy, but the
>> inappropriateness of the touch.)
>
> She was surprised. The is what her facial expression shows to me. She
> appeared to smile as he walked away.

When I touch a woman's shoulders, she definitely does not throw her hands up
in the air. She melts.


> Unless you have somethng substantial to say, I won't have anything else to
> say on it.
> Jeff


Translation: You are rationalizing bad behavior because you are deeply in
love with Bush.

"I know how hard it is to put food on your family". He said that. What do
you think about that statement?

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:hbRii.1870$Pv2.477@trnddc03...
> Cathy F. wrote:
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> news:C2Rii.6647$fw2.2758@trnddc04...
>>> JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
>>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>>> news:UBQii.4236$Of2.3624@trnddc06...
>>>>
>>>>>> It was on TV news broadcasts at the time, & if you Google "Bush
>>>>>> German Chancellor" you can find articles about it, along w/video, no
>>>>>> problem. He gave her an uninvited shoulder massage as he passed
>>>>>> behind her chair, & her body language reaction was along the lines of
>>>>>> "Arghhh" or "Iccck!"
>>>>> I would not use the word "fondle" to describe this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jeff
>>>>
>>>> You wouldn't, but her reaction clearly indicated that it was
>>>> inappropriate and undesirable.
>>> We saw what? six seconds of action? We don't know the context. It could
>>> have been highly offensive or just a joke or a gesture of friendship.
>>> And, IMHO, her reaction indicated surprise at an unexpected shoulder
>>> massage.
>>>
>>> From what I've read, it was just a friendly gesture that had no sexual
>>> connotation at all.
>>>
>>> At any rate, I disagree with calling this 3 second shoulder rub,
>>> undesirable or not, "fondling."
>>
>> Look at her facial expression & the tenseness of her shoulders, up in the
>> air. That overture was obviously *not* a welcome one. (I hope Laura
>> gave him hell about it later; nothing to do w/jealousy, but the
>> inappropriateness of the touch.)
>
> She was surprised. The is what her facial expression shows to me. She
> appeared to smile as he walked away.
>
> I know what the overall context is, but I don't know whether they were
> just meeting or chatting a few minutes before they were sitting down or
> what. That is the context to which I am referring.

A hint to you then, just in case: Do not emulate GWB. Whether you're at a
mtg. or not, do not rub a female colleague's shoulders as you walk by her.
There's a good chance it won't be particularly well received.

Cathy


>
> I fail to see what the big deal of this is.
>
> A shoulder rub when hundreds of thousands of American lives are disrupted
> by a war? This disccussion is a waste of electrons.
>
> Unless you have somethng substantial to say, I won't have anything else to
> say on it.
>
> Jeff
>
>> Cathy
>>
>>
>>> Jeff
>>

"Cathy F." > wrote in message
...
>
> It was on TV news broadcasts at the time, & if you Google "Bush German
> Chancellor" you can find articles about it, along w/video, no problem. He
> gave her an uninvited shoulder massage as he passed behind her chair, &
> her body language reaction was along the lines of "Arghhh" or "Iccck!"
>
> Cathy

Why, the swine! Guys at work occasionally do that to me, too, and I'm mostly
bald. She reacted much like a traditional Navajo does if you extend your
hand to shake theirs. Darned cultural differences.

Mike

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
news:HhRii.11501>
> "I know how hard it is to put food on your family". He said that. What do
> you think about that statement?
>
>

I think you are too much concerned about appearance and too little concerned
about substance. GWB has never claimed to be good at speaking
exemporaneously, and I share the same problem. It is amazing to me that some
people are articulate, or can play musical instruments, or can juggle
chainsaws. Not all of the people who can do those things are very
intelligent, though; those are merely individual talents.

Just ignore the malicious gossip and you will do better.

Mike

Mike

"Michael Pardee" > wrote in message
.. .
> "JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
> news:HhRii.11501>
>> "I know how hard it is to put food on your family". He said that. What do
>> you think about that statement?
>>
>>
>
> I think you are too much concerned about appearance and too little
> concerned about substance. GWB has never claimed to be good at speaking
> exemporaneously, and I share the same problem. It is amazing to me that
> some people are articulate, or can play musical instruments, or can juggle
> chainsaws. Not all of the people who can do those things are very
> intelligent, though; those are merely individual talents.
>
> Just ignore the malicious gossip and you will do better.
>
> Mike

We'll agree to differ on the subject, then. I have my own list of
qualifications for certain jobs. Clear communication is at the top of my
list for a president, and Bush does not meet that qualification unless he
has a script.

"JoeSpareBedroom" > wrote in message
...
>
> We'll agree to differ on the subject, then. I have my own list of
> qualifications for certain jobs. Clear communication is at the top of my
> list for a president, and Bush does not meet that qualification unless he
> has a script.
>
>
The concept of communication from the president to the public is a very
recent one, one I feel mirrors the rise of the entertainment industry as
each is dependent on commmunication technology. Personally, I would not want
a glib incompetent in the office. I acknowledge that a lot of people feel
President Bush is an incompetent and that is certainly their right. But I
can't recall a single accusation that he failed to clearly instruct the
people who report to him, and that is the real importance of communication
ability.

You are aware that the overwhelming majority of quotations ascribed to
politicians are fabricated, and it is to your credit you used one that
wasn't.

Mike