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Burning Rubber Gets Expensive



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 25th 05, 04:00 PM
MrPepper11
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Default Burning Rubber Gets Expensive

April 21, 2005
Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily
By MICHELLE HIGGINS
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

What do a Hyundai Sonata and a Porsche have in common?

High-performance tires.

There's a surprising side effect to the horsepower race that's been
taking place across the car industry. Responding to consumer demand for
powerful, aggressive-looking vehicles, models ranging from station
wagons to the Chrysler 300 are getting souped up to handle faster
acceleration and higher speeds. To harness the extra power, the
vehicles require tires that were once found only on sporty vehicles
such as Corvettes and Porsches. The new tires are shorter and wider
than most standard tires, and can be considerably more expensive. Cars
with fashionably giant wheels also usually require tires like these.

High-performance tires provide a quicker, crisper steering response and
a more tenacious grip on dry and wet surfaces than most common tires.
But not only do they cost more, they also tend to wear out faster, and
perform worse in snow. That means some car owners now have to face the
hassle and expense of sticking snow tires back on their cars in the
winter -- a chore that all but disappeared with the advent of
all-season tires in recent decades.

The high-performance trend is catching many car buyers off-guard,
particularly after years of growing accustomed to increasingly
longer-lasting tires. Part of the problem is that many people don't pay
much attention to the tires when buying a vehicle, so they don't
realize their new car comes with high-performance tires. Manufacturers
such as Michelin and Bridgestone have a term for it: the "accidental
performance customer."

When the rubber eventually wears out and needs to be replaced, it can
be a double-whammy for the owner, says Eugene Petersen, an engineer at
Consumer Reports' tire and automotive test center in East Haddam, Conn.
"The first shock is how long it lasts. Next is cost." He says he has
seen a stream of postings on the discussion boards at
consumerreports.org about short-lived, high-priced tires.

Roger Liebowitz, an advertising executive in Richmond, Va., encountered
this when shopping for a used car last summer. The 2002 Infiniti i35 he
was considering was in great condition except the tires needed to be
replaced -- and it would cost nearly $800 to buy and install a complete
set like the ones that came with the car. "It seemed kind of absurd to
me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire,"
says Mr. Liebowitz. "I'd expect that for a Corvette." In the end, he
decided to buy a 2001 Infiniti i30, which came with tires that Mr.
Liebowitz priced at about $100 each.

A spokesman for Infiniti says the tire designs and sizes for its
vehicles are "optimized" for the specific car model. As a result, the
tires may be a size "that's not common in the replacement market."

Performance tires, while still a relatively small portion of the
overall tire market, are one of the fastest growing segments in the
industry, according to the Rubber Manufacturers Association. Last year,
about 17% of original-equipment tires shipped were what many consider
high-performance tires, up from 12% in 1999. Sales in the
performance-tire segment are up about 14% for 2004 from the previous
year at the Sears Automotive Group, a business of Sears Holding Corp.

All tires come with a one-letter rating -- such as H or S -- that
indicates the maximum speed at which they are designed to function
without risking a blowout or other failure. Typical high-speed ratings
are H (capable of a maximum speed of 130 miles per hour), V (149 mph)
and Z (above 149 mph). Most tires are rated S or T, for speeds up to
112 mph and 118 mph, respectively.

Speed Ratings Increase

A number of car models switched in recent years to higher-performance
tires. In 1996 the Honda Civic EX sedan came equipped with S-rated
tires; in 2001 it came with H-rated tires.

Other vehicles, which already had high-performance tires, are boosting
their speed ratings. For instance, the 2002 Nissan Maxima came equipped
with H-rated tires, whereas the 2003 and 2004 models have V-rated
tires. Similarly, the 2005 Hyundai Sonata LX came with H-speed rated
tires; the 2006 model comes with V-rated tires.

Tires can also vary within a specific model of car. For instance, the
base Chrysler 300 comes with T-rated tires, but the fancier 300C -- the
model people get if they want extras like leather seats, heated mirrors
and a better stereo -- comes with high-performance tires that are more
expensive to replace. A Chrysler spokesman says the auto maker is
confident that buyers understand what they are purchasing.

Typical all-season tires cost anywhere from roughly $30 to $100 apiece
and wear out after 45,000 to 50,000 miles. High-performance tires can
cost from $60 to $145 or so and also wear out more quickly -- typically
after about 30,000 miles. Ultrahigh-performance tires such as Z-rated
ones (or the even more rare W and Y tires, which show up on sports cars
like Ferraris) cost even more, usually upward of $120 each, and wear
out at around 15,000 miles.

Safety Issues

The fact that high-performance tires sometimes wear out more quickly
can raise safety concerns. As a tread is worn away, in some
circumstances a tire's grip on dry road surfaces may increase. However,
worn tires have the opposite effect in inclement weather, where deep
tread patterns are needed for wet braking and to gain traction in snow.
Snow traction declined 15% for tires with treads worn down to half
their normal depth in tests by Consumer Reports. Hydroplaning
resistance was down by 8%, and wet braking was down by about 7%.

Also, while performance tires generally do well in dry and wet
conditions (their wide footprint helps the rubber stick to the
pavement) their design tends to have the opposite effect in winter
conditions where narrower footprints and deep treads are preferred for
maintaining traction in snow or icy conditions.

Drivers of cars with high-performance tires have options when looking
for replacements if the tires wear out or if winter conditions require
a switch. For one, all-season performance tires are available, though
they generally won't perform as well in the snow as true winter tires.

Precise Handling

Another option: Buying a version of the tire that has a lower speed
rating. However, there is disagreement in the industry about whether
that's a good idea. Even though speed ratings of greater than 130 mph
may seem unnecessary -- after all, who ever really drives anywhere near
that speed? -- the fact is that tires with higher ratings also can
provide more precise handling and crisper steering response even at
lower speeds. according to Matt Edmonds of Tire Rack, a wheel and tire
retailer in South Bend, Ind.

A performance-tire brochure from Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. says the
company recommends replacement tires with an equivalent or greater
speed rating than the original set. However, in the next sentence the
brochure says, "if you never drive at speeds near the limits of your
speed-rated tires, you may choose to replace them with tires having a
lesser top-speed rating."

PERFORMANCE FOR LESS

Replacing high-performance tires can be expensive, but it's possible to
purchase alternate brands to save money.

Vehicle Original Equipment Tire Cost Alternate Tire Brand
Cost

2003 BMW X5 3.0i Michelin Energy MXV4 Plus $145 Continental 4X4
Contact $93
2003 Nissan Maxima GXE Goodyear Eagle RS-A $95 Continental
ContiTouring Contact CH95 $72
2005 Chrysler 300C Continental ContiTouring Contact CH95 $100
Pirelli P6 Four Seasons $92
2003 Lexus IS 300 Bridgestone RE92 $138 Pirelli P6 Four Seasons
$104

Note: Within a specific tire brand, prices can vary based on factors
such as tire size and speed rating.

Source: Tirerack.com

Ads
  #2  
Old April 25th 05, 06:15 PM
Snow
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> High-performance tires provide a quicker, crisper steering response and
> a more tenacious grip on dry and wet surfaces than most common tires.



I'm not to sure their better on wet pavement, not all of them anyways.
Besides if people can afford the car then they shouldn't bitch replacement
parts (tires in this case), just like anyone who drives a 4x4 or a soccer
mom suvee better not complain about gas prices. (although in this case the
pot calls the kettle black way to often).

Snow...


  #3  
Old April 26th 05, 12:36 AM
Arif Khokar
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MrPepper11 wrote:
> April 21, 2005
> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
> Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily
> By MICHELLE HIGGINS
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
> [...]
> Roger Liebowitz, an advertising executive in Richmond, Va., encountered
> this when shopping for a used car last summer. The 2002 Infiniti i35 he
> was considering was in great condition except the tires needed to be
> replaced -- and it would cost nearly $800 to buy and install a complete
> set like the ones that came with the car. "It seemed kind of absurd to
> me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire,"
> says Mr. Liebowitz.


People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect
ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The
225/45 ZR17s that I shop for come in prices ranging from $90 to $220 per
tire. I don't see any reason why someone would have to spend more than
$115 per tire for that particular size. The price may go up by $20 to
$30 per tire when you get into the 18" range.

People also need to realize that unless you live too far south to see
significant snowfall, you're only going to be using those high
performance tires 6 to 8 months out of the year. That means that a set
will last for 3 or possibly 4 seasons of use.
  #4  
Old April 26th 05, 12:57 AM
fbloogyudsr
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"Arif Khokar" > wrote
> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect
> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).


"width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;->

Floyd
  #5  
Old April 26th 05, 02:07 AM
Jim Yanik
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Arif Khokar > wrote in
:

> MrPepper11 wrote:
>> April 21, 2005
>> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
>> Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily
>> By MICHELLE HIGGINS
>> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>>
>> [...]
>> Roger Liebowitz, an advertising executive in Richmond, Va., encountered
>> this when shopping for a used car last summer. The 2002 Infiniti i35 he
>> was considering was in great condition except the tires needed to be
>> replaced -- and it would cost nearly $800 to buy and install a complete
>> set like the ones that came with the car. "It seemed kind of absurd to
>> me for an $18,000 or $19,000 car to turn around and spend $200 a tire,"
>> says Mr. Liebowitz.


Also,a NEW Infiniti I35 is NOT a $18-20K vehicle.
And it may be that the previous owner installed custom wheels with a larger
diameter and low-profile tires(more expensive).Going back to OEM wheel
sizes may reduce the cost significantly.
>
> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width.


Wheel Diameter,not tread width. [225/45 ZR17] means a 17" diameter,tread
width of 225mm,and aspect ratio of 45.(low-profile category) [Z] is the
speed rating,and [R] = radial.


>Aspect
> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). The
> 225/45 ZR17s that I shop for come in prices ranging from $90 to $220 per
> tire. I don't see any reason why someone would have to spend more than
> $115 per tire for that particular size. The price may go up by $20 to
> $30 per tire when you get into the 18" range.
>
> People also need to realize that unless you live too far south to see
> significant snowfall, you're only going to be using those high
> performance tires 6 to 8 months out of the year. That means that a set
> will last for 3 or possibly 4 seasons of use.
>


One can also shop for tires with a better wear number,better wet pavement
capabilities,etc.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net
  #6  
Old April 26th 05, 03:16 AM
C.H.
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 19:13:38 -0700, Scott en Aztlán wrote:

> On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:57:32 -0700, "fbloogyudsr"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Arif Khokar" > wrote
>>> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
>>> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect
>>> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

>>
>>"width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;->

>
> I've seen some Ferraris with some pretty wide rear tires...


Formula 1 maybe ... years ago when they still had really wide rear tires

Chris
  #7  
Old April 26th 05, 03:45 AM
L Sternn
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:15:07 -0400, "Snow" >
wrote:

>
>
>I'm not to sure their better


lol
  #8  
Old April 27th 05, 02:43 AM
keith
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On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:57:32 -0700, fbloogyudsr wrote:

> "Arif Khokar" > wrote
>> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
>> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect
>> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

>
> "width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;->


Yes, and it's the diameter of the *wheel*, not the tire.

--
Keith
  #9  
Old April 27th 05, 03:01 AM
Laura Bush murdered her boy friend
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MrPepper11 wrote:
> April 21, 2005
> Burning Rubber Gets Expensive
> Pricey Tires Increasingly Come Standard on Cars, But Wear Out Easily
> By MICHELLE HIGGINS
> Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
>
> What do a Hyundai Sonata and a Porsche have in common?
>
> High-performance tires.
>


One more reason to drive slow. I bought a couple tires a month back
and the installed price for the whole job was $85. Last summer i
bought a pair of the same tires and it only cost $65. Four tires
installed = $150. And they work just fine.

  #10  
Old April 27th 05, 05:20 AM
Don Klipstein
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In article >, keith wrote:
>On Mon, 25 Apr 2005 16:57:32 -0700, fbloogyudsr wrote:
>
>> "Arif Khokar" > wrote
>>> People need to learn where to shop for tires. I believe most newer cars
>>> equipped as such usually have tires that are 17 to 18" width. Aspect
>>> ratios are from 45 to 35 (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

>>
>> "width" of 17 to 18"? Brain cramp, I'm sure you meant diameter... ;->

>
>Yes, and it's the diameter of the *wheel*, not the tire.
>
>--
> Keith


Going on a side note by entering late into the thread with title having
"burning rubber"...

I am thinking of a different factor - what type/grade of rubber the
tires are made of!

Let me put it this way...

I have done enough work delivering food (not pizza but may as well have
been) by bicycle, at a place that has hired a fair amount of bicycle
messengers and former bicycle messengers (including myself).

Tale of two delivery people both other than myself:

#1 referred me to this job, likes to drive motorcycles, and I have noted
him to have engineering talent and a little bit as a little bit of a hobby
design cars that perform like motorcycles.

#2 came onto the job without a car but really wanted to drive a car
rather than a bike, and quit his bike when he could afford a car.

Both #1 and #2 when driving cars drove their cars as if they were
bicycle messengers. I have been a car passenger for both.

#2 had a significant accident record, although bragged about high
percentage of accidents not ruled his fault. #1 avoided an accident
record.

When being a passenger in a car driven by #2 at 50 MPH on 35 MPH city
streets, I got scared and afterwards rode my bike home 4-plus miles in
cold rain rather than accepting a ride from him. When being a passenger
in a car driven by #1, I mostly burst out laughing at how he got away with
driving 60 on 35 MPH city streets.

Driver #1 did also do a stint delivering pizzas for a different shop,
but quit due to car expenses from such work, although continued to drive
like a bicycle messenger while preferring to avoid such high exposure to
high car wear from driving like a bicycle messenger in areas where he had
to apply the brakes almost every block.

Now for tires:

No. 2 did not say anything about tire type/quality.

No. 1 had stuff to say about tire quality. Furthermore, he was at one
time I noticed shopping for tires at a tire shop in "the delivery area".
The tire shop owner recommended longer life tires that were made with a
harder rubber compund.
At the local tire shop Driver #1 voiced his opinion as to how he would
dis-benefit from "longer life" tires made with harder rubber, and would
achieve less tire wear from a "stickier" softer rubber that normally has a
shorter life expectancy.
I added to the owner of the local tire shop that Driver #1 tends to
drive a car the way a bicycle messenger would drive a motorcycle.

------------------------------

Bottom line: What kind of tires you need will vary with specifics of
your driving habits.

I do advise in favor of higher traction ratings in any close call.

Please consider ability to stop if the driver in front of you suddenly
applies the brakes as hard as possible for whatever reason, and has a car
with good antilock brakes. I believe that you should be able to avoid
crashing into the vehicle in front of you unless you get totally
sandwiched between the vehicle ahead of you and the vehicle behind you.
Should you have choice between getting rear-ended and rear-ending the car
in front of you, insurance companies tend to favor rear-endees over
rear-enders, with (according to my impression) laws of many-most USA
states giving guidance in that direction.

- Don Klipstein )
 




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