Guess What (follow-up)?

Steve Sears wrote:
> JP,
> So were they replaced or not?
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears

http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?q=...ya.com&rnum=26

have a look

In all probability they weren't and the lack of a sticker speaks volumes but
unfortunately as I had not yet become suspicious enough at the time, I never
really checked. Anyway, it is still much of the same thing now with the
lower arms, which, of course, they just found to be OK, and I bet they're
going to fall apart just as soon as the campaign is over. I mean these
people know very well what they're doing to boost their business and empty
our pockets, right?


"Steve Sears" > escribió en el mensaje
. ..
> JP,
> So were they replaced or not?
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears
> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> 1980 Audi 5k
> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
>
> "JP Roberts" > wrote in message
> ...
>> They should have been replaced, but with these so called "campaigns", if
> the
>> dealer does happen to have the necessary time to check during a routinely
>> service, and I'm assuming they do, it still takes some "free play" or
>> whatever other sypmtoms for them to have the parts replaced. Now, if they
>> know these to be faulty I find that is only adding insult to injury as
> they
>> should all be replaced automatically in every single instance.
>>
>>
>> "Steve Sears" > escribió en el mensaje
>> . ..
>> > JP,
>> > Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while
>> > back
>> > under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their
>> > ducks
>> > in
>> > a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are
>> > indeed
> a
>> > wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take
>> > your
>> > complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than
> most -
>> > at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be
>> > unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with
>> > parts
>> > purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or
>> > not).
>> > Cheers!
>> > Steve Sears
>> > 1987 Audi 5kTQ
>> > 1980 Audi 5k
>> > 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
>> > (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
>> >
>> > "JP Roberts" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think
> you're
>> >> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that
>> >> this
>> >> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the
>> >> make - read dealer.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>

> Not only Audi.

Can you provide any links proving that any other presumably "serious" makes
have had problems with suspension arms?

>>To give you a further example, my brother-in-law had to drop
>>his car at the dealer's three times for three sucessive but differently
>>and
>>ill-timed coilpack failures. This is something that you will never see
>>when
>>a Japanese make is involved,
>
> Seen that e.g. on Hondas and Toyotas, too

Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the
only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much
more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or
less pretty happy about their Hondas. And I know Audis look better but the
type R is a hell of a car performance wise and with such a high-revving
engine, this should last no longer than a couple of hundred miles, if the
parts in this engine were of a similar standard to that of VW suspension rod
ends.

After having a massive rear brake
> replacement (cables, calipers, rotors) on my wife's 2k2 CRV,

Why this replacement?

I feel it's especially
>> disappointing as we are paying dear money for these cars in the
>> belief that they are going to be German-reliable and I have always
>> know Germans to be very serious about whatever they do.
>
> So you had your warranty work done on recall 5 years ago, and you now have
> 100k miles on the clock and expect that a wear item should be replaced
> under
> warranty?

The point is that they are badly and underengineered and this is exactly why
they must be covered for the life of the car.

> I know the suspension arms on Audi's is poor but they do last for at least
> a
> few years which is "good enough.

It is precisely because of this soft critical attitude that they will get
away with it yet once again.

> remember most Audi owners are repeat customers, once you buy an Audi you
> dont go back.

This is exactly why they should treat us with some respect instead of
disdain.

Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just
> weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.

I can't believe you bought such a lame excuse. This is no excuse at all,
remember they do have all the necessary cars it takes to supply just any
market. If it'd been a Chinese customer placing an order for 500 A6 on
condition that they must be made within three week's time they sure would
have taken and fullfilled the demand.

> Flat out wrong.

Where's that link?

> Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.

I friend of mine had the whole of his '02 M3's engine replaced 2 months out
of warranty before it broke - which remains to be seen whether it would have
happened. This is exactly the right and opposite policy. I don't know about
Mercedes.

> Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts for
> free?

Pretty much everywhere else when it's a clear case of underengineering.

JP Roberts wrote:

>Can you provide any links proving that any other presumably "serious" makes
>have had problems with suspension arms?

Arms?
We were talking about the replacement policy, right?

But ok:
Google search for '$BRANDHERE front suspension problem' gives

Honda
http://tinyurl.com/9jcny
http://tinyurl.com/abu76
http://tinyurl.com/9b5ta

Toyota:
http://tinyurl.com/89hff
This one might be worth a quote:
**************
My experience with Toyota was the same: they rush and do a minimal
work to appear trying to fix things and when they fail they tell you
that they do not know what to do next or they refer you to the Toyota
Representative.

I suggest that you ask your dealer put you in contact with the Toyota
Representative and if that does not work try arbitration
(1-888-300-6237).

I also suggest that "you do not hold your breath(!)" even if
arbitration results in your favor. The decision is supposed to be
"binding on Toyota," it isn't. In my case even if the arbitrator
decided that Toyota should repair the car, Toyota did not.
*****
End Quote
http://tinyurl.com/br9d4

BMW
http://tinyurl.com/beh4z
http://tinyurl.com/a6g2u

Merc
http://tinyurl.com/bqca5
http://tinyurl.com/99s5d


>Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the
>only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much
>more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or
>less pretty happy about their Hondas.

Ok. Just for starters (unfortunately in german, but you'll recognize
the pattern. The less the number of needed assistances is, the better
it is):

Roadside assistances medium to upperclass cars
http://tinyurl.com/8j3dl
medium class:
http://tinyurl.com/drqzc

Then I got bored searching.

Regards

Wolfgang

> Honda
> http://tinyurl.com/9jcny
> http://tinyurl.com/abu76
> http://tinyurl.com/9b5ta

Do not appear to be general or serious and for the first two there is no
indication that the car owner had to pay for the repairs.

> Toyota:
> http://tinyurl.com/89hff
> http://tinyurl.com/br9d4

In the end it turned out to be tyre related, so not relevant.

>
> BMW
> http://tinyurl.com/beh4z
> http://tinyurl.com/a6g2u

The first turned out to be the muffler, the second, however, is relevant,
though there is nothing about control arms, only springs and struts, which
is not really in the same league as far as wear is concerned.

> Merc
> http://tinyurl.com/bqca5
> http://tinyurl.com/99s5d
>

The first is about an off roader so that's a completely different matter.
The second is not specific at all.

>>Again I'll appreciate any links you can provide in that direction, as the
>>only things I seem to have read about Honda was that they were by far much
>>more reliable than any German makes, and every owner seemed to be more or
>>less pretty happy about their Hondas.
>
> Ok. Just for starters (unfortunately in german, but you'll recognize
> the pattern. The less the number of needed assistances is, the better
> it is):
>
> Roadside assistances medium to upperclass cars
> http://tinyurl.com/8j3dl
> medium class:
> http://tinyurl.com/drqzc
>

Statistics is the science by which if a man has eaten a chicken and another
one has not eaten one, at the end of the day they will both have eaten half
of it each. Anyway, it would have to be seen how many more Mercs and BMWs
are there on the German roads, by comparison to the number of Audis. I
believe the ratio must be somewhere between 2 Mercs per every Audi, and 1.5
BMWs per Audi, though of course I still prefer my whole Audi to that
remaining half a BMW !

Not trying to pull anyone's leg, here and do appreciate your efforts but I
remain unconvinced.

JP Roberts

JP Roberts wrote:
> Until Audi had a large enough supply, there *just
> > weren't enough* coil packs to replace four when one was faulty.
>
> I can't believe you bought such a lame excuse.

It's not an excuse, but reality. The fact is that the replacementsa
didn't exist in great enough numbers. When they did exist, then all
the packs were replaced at once.

> This is no excuse at all,
> remember they do have all the necessary cars it takes to supply just
any
> market.

Hardly. You can't just wave a wand and have parts materialize out of
thin air. Do you know anything at all about heavy manufacturing?

>
> > Flat out wrong.
>
> Where's that link?

Link to what?

> > Mercedes and BMW have exactly the same policy.
>
> I friend of mine had the whole of his '02 M3's engine replaced 2
months out
> of warranty before it broke - which remains to be seen whether it
would have
> happened. This is exactly the right and opposite policy. I don't know
about
> Mercedes.

There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a
very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some
dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,
regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had
warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because they
had good dealer relations.

> > Where again is this dealer that's not replacing non-faulty parts
for
> > free?
>
> Pretty much everywhere else when it's a clear case of
underengineering.

Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear
case."

I'm becoming curious as to why you are not naming this dealer that's so
shoddy. If what you say is completely true, then what's the problem?

It seems to me as though you want a lifetime warranty on wear parts
where no other manufacturer has such a policy. All because your German
car is a little more expensive than other cars to fix. I will repeat
my suggestion: sell your Audi, and buy a Honda or Toyota product.
Everyone wins.

E.P.

I do know the basics about assembly line work, but then again I bet there is
not only one coil pack manufacturer in the world. Now, there's probably only
a cheap one, which happens to be the one supplying them. So, it's nothing a
couple more bucks investment couldn't have solved in an instant.
> Hardly. You can't just wave a wand and have parts materialize out of
> thin air. Do you know anything at all about heavy manufacturing?


> There's more to your story than you are saying. In fact, BMW had a
> very specific problem with their M3s, due to oil issues. And some
> dealers do work with their customers, to make sure they come back,
> regardless of corporate policy. I know of several people who had
> warranty work done outside of warranty eligibility, just because they
> had good dealer relations.
>
This is what they should all do, although of course only if there's a good
reason enough, which happens to be the case.


> Are you an engineer? No? Then you cannot say that it's a "clear
> case."
Well, now I can see you're just a would-be knowitall. Yes, I do happen to be
an engineer although my knowledge of car mechanics is rather limited, but I
can still easily tell from the many woe stories when something has been
underengineered, but it doesn't take an engineer to not fail to see this.
Also, upon inspection deterioration is so obvious that there's no denying
the bad engineering.


If I'm not naming the dealer it's only because it's thousands of miles away
from where most of you probably are, so you're perfectly safe in that
respect, and because the point is that this contemptible behaviour is pretty
much extended where I am based. I would dare to say that the good stories
are the rare exceptions. But with a few exceptions like that of Wolfgang, I
think it's the make's policy that's faulty. If you doubt what I'm saying I
would like you to point me out to just a couple of links in which our make
has covered something after the guarantee had expired.
> I'm becoming curious as to why you are not naming this dealer that's so
> shoddy. If what you say is completely true, then what's the problem?