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Guess What (follow-up)?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 20th 05, 12:54 PM
JP Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Guess What (follow-up)?

(Follows on from "Guess What?".)

Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods
replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the
original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after
dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me that
while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on
Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before), the
German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very
kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both
tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate
prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,
including labour.

I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it
ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?

So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had all
of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front end
for $1000..

I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other
ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100
miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their
customers.

JP Roberts



Ads
  #2  
Old April 20th 05, 02:03 PM
Wolfgang Pawlinetz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JP Roberts wrote:

>dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me that
>while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on
>Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before), the
>German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very
>kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both
>tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate
>prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,
>including labour.


What about warranty on the first repair/exchange job? Was it already
expired?

>miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their
>customers.


US customers.. ?

Well, just to drop another view in:

My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
re-adjusted timing etc.

The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
was washed and cleaned inside every time.

During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
contribution of 15 Euros.

Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
there anyway.

And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
(pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.

I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
relation.

Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
the complaints which get sorted out here.

Regards

Wolfgang
  #3  
Old April 20th 05, 02:50 PM
Steve Sears
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JP,
I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who is
mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the extra 100
miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what the rep
of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of the
dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy treatment.
If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not continue with
them?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" > wrote in message
...
> (Follows on from "Guess What?".)
>
> Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods
> replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the
> original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after
> dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me

that
> while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up on
> Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before),

the
> German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very
> kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both
> tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate
> prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,
> including labour.
>
> I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it
> ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?
>
> So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had all
> of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front

end
> for $1000..
>
> I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other
> ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100
> miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their
> customers.
>
> JP Roberts
>
>
>



  #4  
Old April 20th 05, 03:33 PM
JP Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're
getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that this
should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the
make - read dealer.

"Steve Sears" > escribió en el mensaje
. ..
> JP,
> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who is
> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the extra
> 100
> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what the rep
> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of the
> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy treatment.
> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not continue
> with
> them?
> Cheers!
> Steve Sears
> 1987 Audi 5kTQ
> 1980 Audi 5k
> 1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
> (SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)
>
> "JP Roberts" > wrote in message
> ...
>> (Follows on from "Guess What?".)
>>
>> Dealer asked me to take the car in so that I could have the steering rods
>> replaced free of charge as no records showed this had been done under the
>> original campaign. Boy, was I not in for a bigger surprise when after
>> dropping the car there, I get a second call in the afternoon telling me

> that
>> while the car is on the lift, a tie-rod replacement record has shown up
>> on
>> Elsa (they had pressumably not been able to set up a connection before),

> the
>> German database, and that I will have to pay for the whole thing. He very
>> kindly informs me that it's only the upper right-front end arms and both
>> tie-rod ends that need to be replaced. Since I had asked for an estimate
>> prior to any real arm replacements, he then quotes a total of some $800,
>> including labour.
>>
>> I say "thanks for the info", but could you please lower my car and get it
>> ready for me to pick it up when I finish work?
>>
>> So, in the end, I just took the car to an independent mechanic and had
>> all
>> of this plus an oil-and-filter change and 2 new Bilsteins for the front

> end
>> for $1000..
>>
>> I really felt I had been cheated by the dealer. I did not check any other
>> ones as I did not have either the time of patience to drive an extra 100
>> miles but this speaks volumes about how the make is treating their
>> customers.
>>
>> JP Roberts
>>
>>
>>

>
>



  #5  
Old April 20th 05, 03:52 PM
JP Roberts
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must be
just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better treatment
than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were clearly
underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have some
experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.

> My A6 TDI developed sort of a rough idle after 4 years. To sort it
> out, my Audi garage changed both camshafts, filters, engine mounts and
> re-adjusted timing etc.
>
> The whole procedure took several visits and a few months, but I always
> got a free loaner and didn't have to pay a single euro (except for the
> fuel for the loaner). They were flexible with appointments and the car
> was washed and cleaned inside every time.
>
> During one of the first service visits in 2000 they should have done a
> rewiring of the MAF which they didn't. It was not an absolute must,
> but a recommendation. That caused the consumption of 3 MAFs of which I
> didn't pay a single one. I insisted on the re-wirig after ~5 years.
> The car was out of any warranty of course by then but as I had told
> them about the re-wiring before (which I myself estimated at roughly
> 1,5 hours job for a good mechanic) I paid a more or less symbolic
> contribution of 15 Euros.
>
> Sure, one could argue, that it should have been completely free, but I
> was happy it had been done and the tip to the mech would have been
> there anyway.
>
> And finally: I had an aftermarket (Eberspaecher) pre-heater installed,
> which was subcontracted by them to another company. I was suspicious
> because I wanted Webasto. They recommended Eberspaecher and sure
> enough the pre-heater smoked like an old chimney and was unusable.
> They picked up the car two times at my company to bring it into the
> shop, leaving me a loaner. They agreed to change to a Webasto free of
> charge for me in case they couldn't fix it in short time although the
> Webasto was more expensive but finally found the flaw and fixed it
> (pre-heater exhaust installation error). Since then it works like a
> charm and hadn't shown a problem at all. To get this done in the end
> they got their head mechanic, the subcontractor AND the Austrian
> Eberspaecher head tech in to discuss that directly on my car.
>
> I'm at the moment factually basing my decision on the next car brand
> almost purely on the fact that I finally found a shop which is good,
> fast, precise, flexible and features a good price/performance
> relation.
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned. It's
> the complaints which get sorted out here.
>
> Regards
>
> Wolfgang



  #6  
Old April 20th 05, 04:56 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Steve Sears wrote:
> JP,
> I'd venture that it's not necessarily the "make" but the "dealer" who

is
> mistreating their customers - maybe you should consider going the

extra 100
> miles to the other dealer - post on Audiworld and here asking what

the rep
> of the other dealership is - and while you're at it, post the name of

the
> dealership that you had problems with so others can avoid lousy

treatment.
> If the independent is a good shop and does great work, why not

continue with
> them?


This is the same complaint heard over and over all over usenet, no
matter what make. If the dealer makes a mistake, the manufacturer is
at fault (so the reasoning goes.) If the dealer is crummy at CS,
somehow Audi is the problem. It may be that the control arms were
under-engineered. But the dealer was the problem to begin with, saying
work had been done when it had not. Audi didn't have anything to do
with JPR's out-of-pocket, other than a problem with under-engineering
(which is still a maybe.)

I agree that the name of the rep and the dealership should be made
known. So that if any one of us finds ourselves in that area, we know
where *not* to go.

It would still be better if JPR got a Toyota or Honda product. That
way, when he has a problem, and goes to a newsgroup to complain,
they'll be able to tell him the same thing. After questioning his
truthfulness, because everyone knows that Toyotas and Hondas don't
break down. Don't laugh too hard, I've seen it.

In the end, Audi's not much on the hook for this one. The dealer,
however, is.

E.P.

  #7  
Old April 20th 05, 04:58 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


JP Roberts wrote:
> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think

you're
> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that

this
> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by

the
> make - read dealer.


But the dealer sucks, so don't go there. The dealer *should* have done
it, but didn't. So don't go there. The dealer is not interested in
you as a repeat customer. Don't go there.

E.P.

  #8  
Old April 20th 05, 05:05 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Wolfgang Pawlinetz wrote:
>
> Ok, enough babbling but the pluses almost never get mentioned.


That's true. With my recent fuel pump follies, my independent was
quite embarrassed about not finding the problem, even with all the
billing he did. It was all legit - he spent time trying to track down
an intermittent problem. It just so happened that it finally failed
away from his shop. I have always been happy with my mechanic - he
does a great job at low prices, and if he goofs, he covers out of his
own pocket. All of our high-mileage Audis have been solid, and even
though the parts are somewhat expensive, they are no worse that the
same parts for Japanese cars. While I'm not a big fan of dealerships
in general (high rates, 100% book-time charges), a few of the
relatively local ones have been very helpful in sorting minor DIY
stuff. Like how to replace bulbs when the mounting hardware is not as
simple as it first appears.

JPR's dealer sounds like a place to avoid, but they are not *all* like
that...

E.P.

  #9  
Old April 20th 05, 05:13 PM
Steve Sears
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JP,
I'd love a warranty like that on the rear transverse links on my 5ktq - I've
had to replace them a couple of times in the past few years. It may be true
that the front links were underdesigned.....some revisions to the design and
a silent warranty may have been applied to the underdesign......but a
lifetime warranty?
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" > wrote in message
...
> I'm glad to believe you were pampered like that, because I think you must

be
> just about one of the rare exceptions, and judging from what I've read on
> the forums, the general opinion on the treatment they get from the make is
> clearly bad, and that's even in the US, where customers get better

treatment
> than in Europe. It is now perfectly clear to me, that the arms were

clearly
> underengineered and that they should be covered for the life of the car.
> Further to this, if you drop into just any garage where the mechs have

some
> experience they'll tell you that the front suspension of these cars is
> basically ***t in terms of long term reliability.



  #10  
Old April 20th 05, 06:16 PM
Steve Sears
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

JP,
Didn't you say that the dealer found that they _were_ replaced a while back
under the silent warranty programme - once their IT guys got their ducks in
a line? - As with my other post, considering that ball joints are indeed a
wear item, and do wear out on most cars, it is possible you could take your
complaint to AoA if the lifespan of the replacements were less than most -
at best, they'd cover some of the replacement cost (although it may be
unlikely if the replacements were done at the independent garage with parts
purchased through channels other than Audi (dunno if that's possible or
not).
Cheers!
Steve Sears
1987 Audi 5kTQ
1980 Audi 5k
1962 and '64 Auto Union DKW Junior deLuxes
(SPAM Blocker NOTE: Remove SHOES to reply)

"JP Roberts" > wrote in message
...
> I've long been having oil changes done at the independent. I think you're
> getting confused here, since what we were discussing is the fact that this
> should have been covered under a faulty design silent guarantee by the
> make - read dealer.
>



 




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