More Infor on BioDiesel

On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve
> enlightened us thusly:

>>
>I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for,
>say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it
>up. Have we enough land ?
>

According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used
in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day.

However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that
much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
Robert Frost (1874-1963)

On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:

->Austin Shackles wrote:
->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
->> > enlightened us thusly:
->>
->>
->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
->
->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?

You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol.



--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:

->Austin Shackles wrote:
->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
->> > enlightened us thusly:
->>
->>
->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
->
->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?

You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol.



--
Geoff
www.anoraks.uk.net

Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve
> > enlightened us thusly:
>
> >>
> >I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for,
> >say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it
> >up. Have we enough land ?
> >
>

Well according to the table that the Alternative fuel association and
the department of Ag put out, you can get 127 gallons of oil per acre
of Rape seed. (I suspect that this is under optimum conditions. For
planning purposes I would suspect that you can count on 50 gallons an
acre).

Lets use the lower number for planning purposes so 12,000 miles divided
by 40 miles per gallon. It comes out to 300 gallons per year. In the
making of biodiesel you can only esterize the triglycerides so you only
get about 50-55% recovery of biodiesel from rape seed oil. So you can
expect that to have 300 gallons of biodiesel you would have to raise
600 gallons of rape seed oil. This would mean that you would have to
have 12 acres of rapeseed.

Then you would have to have at least 60 gallons of ethanol made from
sugar beets (412 gal per acre), Potatoes (299 gal per acre) and
Corn (214 gal per acre). So I would say that an additional acre
of land for the raising of potatoes would give you the alcohol for
the conversion process. Then you would need about a 5 lbs of lye
which you can buy at the super market (RED Devil cleaning lye).

So I guess 13 acres would be all you need.

The Independent

Now I don't know what the conversion factor of ethanol to corn is but I
would probably put it at not more than
factor for
> According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used
> in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day.
>
> However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that
> much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
> Robert Frost (1874-1963)

Austin Shackles wrote:
>
> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve
> > enlightened us thusly:
>
> >>
> >I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for,
> >say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it
> >up. Have we enough land ?
> >
>

Well according to the table that the Alternative fuel association and
the department of Ag put out, you can get 127 gallons of oil per acre
of Rape seed. (I suspect that this is under optimum conditions. For
planning purposes I would suspect that you can count on 50 gallons an
acre).

Lets use the lower number for planning purposes so 12,000 miles divided
by 40 miles per gallon. It comes out to 300 gallons per year. In the
making of biodiesel you can only esterize the triglycerides so you only
get about 50-55% recovery of biodiesel from rape seed oil. So you can
expect that to have 300 gallons of biodiesel you would have to raise
600 gallons of rape seed oil. This would mean that you would have to
have 12 acres of rapeseed.

Then you would have to have at least 60 gallons of ethanol made from
sugar beets (412 gal per acre), Potatoes (299 gal per acre) and
Corn (214 gal per acre). So I would say that an additional acre
of land for the raising of potatoes would give you the alcohol for
the conversion process. Then you would need about a 5 lbs of lye
which you can buy at the super market (RED Devil cleaning lye).

So I guess 13 acres would be all you need.

The Independent

Now I don't know what the conversion factor of ethanol to corn is but I
would probably put it at not more than
factor for
> According to some approximate figures I worked out a bit back, the fuel used
> in cars in the UK must come into the region of millions of gallons per day.
>
> However, I've no idea how much oilseed rape you have to grow to produce that
> much fuel, or indeed any given amount of fuel.
> --
> Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
> "Something there is that doesn't love a wall."
> Robert Frost (1874-1963)

On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 14:42:19 +0100, Geoff
> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:
>
>->Austin Shackles wrote:
>->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
>->> > enlightened us thusly:
>->>
>->>
>->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
>->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
>->
>->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
>->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?
>
>You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol.

in the UK, currently, both have duty levied at around the same rate, about
45p/l, plus VAT (!) Low-sulphur fuels are slightly better, and bio-diesel
significantly better, but I know of no garages actually sellgin bio-diesel.
There is some bio-blend about, which is a mixture of bio and fossil.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 14:42:19 +0100, Geoff
> enlightened us thusly:

>On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:09:24 +0100, Steve > wrote:
>
>->Austin Shackles wrote:
>->> On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
>->> > enlightened us thusly:
>->>
>->>
>->>>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
>->>>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
>->
>->Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
>->/gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?
>
>You are forgetting tax, because of the tax diesel in more expensive then petrol.

in the UK, currently, both have duty levied at around the same rate, about
45p/l, plus VAT (!) Low-sulphur fuels are slightly better, and bio-diesel
significantly better, but I know of no garages actually sellgin bio-diesel.
There is some bio-blend about, which is a mixture of bio and fossil.


--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" (sieze today, and put
as little trust as you can in tomorrow) Horace (65 - 8 BC) Odes, I.xi.8

In article >,
says...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
> > On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
> > > enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >
> >>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
> >>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
>
> Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
> /gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?
>

You are delusional if you think diesel is "made", all diesel besides the
stuff a dozen or so people are pilfering from the back of McDonald's
comes from the same place as gasoline. You are equally delusional if
you think it would be any cheaper per gallon in the US if demand for it
was as high as it is for gasoline.

> > 'course, we really do need to look into biodiesel, since the fossil fuel
> > supply is being devoured at way more than a sustainable rate. We also need
> > to look at patterns of life and work, and stop having people commute to work
> > who could easily do their work from home.
> >
> I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for,
> say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it
> up. Have we enough land ?
>
> Steve
>

Not even for just the cars in London.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

In article >,
says...
> Austin Shackles wrote:
> > On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
> > > enlightened us thusly:
> >
> >
> >>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
> >>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
>
> Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
> /gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?
>

You are delusional if you think diesel is "made", all diesel besides the
stuff a dozen or so people are pilfering from the back of McDonald's
comes from the same place as gasoline. You are equally delusional if
you think it would be any cheaper per gallon in the US if demand for it
was as high as it is for gasoline.

> > 'course, we really do need to look into biodiesel, since the fossil fuel
> > supply is being devoured at way more than a sustainable rate. We also need
> > to look at patterns of life and work, and stop having people commute to work
> > who could easily do their work from home.
> >
> I would like to know how much land it would take to grow biodiesel for,
> say, my car which does 10-12,000 miles/year at 40-50 mpg. Then scale it
> up. Have we enough land ?
>
> Steve
>

Not even for just the cars in London.
--
____________________
Remove "X" from email address to reply.

In article >, Chris
Phillipo > wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
> > Austin Shackles wrote:
> > > On or around Wed, 12 May 2004 00:48:23 -0300, Chris Phillipo
> > > > enlightened us thusly:
> > >
> > >
> > >>They already have and do, no one wants them. Europeans wouldn't want
> > >>them either if gas was $2 a gallon there too.
> >
> > Yes but diesel is much cheaper to make, so Diesel might be $1.50
> > /gallon, and still more efficient than "gas". Where is your argument then ?
> >
>
> You are delusional if you think diesel is "made", all diesel besides the
> stuff a dozen or so people are pilfering from the back of McDonald's
> comes from the same place as gasoline. You are equally delusional if
> you think it would be any cheaper per gallon in the US if demand for it
> was as high as it is for gasoline.

And diesel is _more_ expensive here in California than any of the main
varieties of gasoline.

The reason is obvious: the long-distance trucks _have_ to run on
diesel, whereas a lot of gasoline users are cutting way back on
travel. The result is that diesel is being bid up, with the consumers
of vegetables and milk and other goods paying.

Riding on the coat tails of diesel is sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Right now, it's real bad.

--Tim May