Advice wanted - Should it stay or should it go?

I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start of
the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
They include:

- Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
- Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
here); panel was replaced with a used one;
- Hood release cable broke;
- Clogged fuel filter;
- Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due to
years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
- Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.

The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items set
me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have just
popped up:

1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
was the tires).

2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in and
out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?

3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler and
cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is known
to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.

4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
next spring.

I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues and
some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than I
have been this year.

Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for a
car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)

So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?

High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
> I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
> been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start of
> the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
> They include:
>
> - Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
> - Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
> here); panel was replaced with a used one;
> - Hood release cable broke;
> - Clogged fuel filter;
> - Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due to
> years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
> - Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.
>
> The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items set
> me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have just
> popped up:
>
> 1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
> suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
> that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
> had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
> was the tires).
>
> 2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in and
> out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
> the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
> sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
> underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
> replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?
>
> 3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
> acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
> don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler and
> cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
> replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is known
> to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.
>
> 4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
> on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
> next spring.
>
> I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues and
> some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
> new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
> time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
> year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
> there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
> have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than I
> have been this year.
>
> Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for a
> car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
> over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)
>
> So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?


Just put a pencil to paper and lay out the pros 'n cons.

What condition is the basic drive train?

What condition is the body structure in?

Is the cosmetic appearance satisfactory (to you)?

Condition of Brakes, Electrical System??

Cost of a new car vs. continued maintenance should be a fairly easy decision.

I tend to keep the old because I know what's in it, what I can work on
myself vs the almost total automation of a new unit of which you'll be
at the mercy of the dealer's service department.

Remember, these days, new doesn't necessarily mean less. Because of
complexity, certain service intervals can be costly vs the simpler days
of yesteryear...

JT

If you have a good job, just get a new car. The car shouldn't be making
exhaust noises, just after the cat and muffler were replaced. If this is
indeed exhaust, it is a sign of shoddy workmanship. I can't hear it, but
parts installed wrong, a clamp loosened up or a hanger that should have been
replaced are likely suspects. A car this old should go through a couple of
years of nearly constant repairs, then it should be good for another ten, if
you get everything in this round. Taxes are likely lower than a new car,
and you are not making car payments. This is a good type of a car for
people on a budget, IF they can fix things themselves, or at least perform
some level of diagnosis. If you are at the tender mercies of a mechanic,
the math is unfavorable for keeping it.

Earle

"High Tech Misfit" > wrote in message
...
> I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
> been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start
of
> the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
> They include:
>
> - Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
> - Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
> here); panel was replaced with a used one;
> - Hood release cable broke;
> - Clogged fuel filter;
> - Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due
to
> years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
> - Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.
>
> The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items
set
> me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have
just
> popped up:
>
> 1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
> suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
> that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
> had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
> was the tires).
>
> 2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in
and
> out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
> the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
> sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
> underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
> replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?
>
> 3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
> acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
> don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler
and
> cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
> replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is
known
> to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.
>
> 4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
> on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
> next spring.
>
> I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues
and
> some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
> new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
> time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
> year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
> there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
> have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than
I
> have been this year.
>
> Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for
a
> car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
> over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)
>
> So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?

Larry in AZ wrote:
>
> Waiving the right to remain silent, Grumpy AuContraire
> > said:
>
> > Remember, these days, new doesn't necessarily mean less. Because of
> > complexity, certain service intervals can be costly vs the simpler days
> > of yesteryear...
>
> Yeah, the good old days when oil needed to be changed every 3,000 miles,
> points, plugs and grease points every 12,000 miles, brakes every 20,000
> miles, tires every 30,000 miles, etc., etc.
>
> I was there. Unless you wanted to be a weekend mechanic, it really wasn't
> that much fun...
>
>


Which goes to show how helpless you've become.

You still should change dino oil every 5K max and those other things
that are no longer maintainable like electronic ignition will leave you
at the side of the road.

As an aside, I always got 40-50K out of a set of points and plugs and
nearly that with brakes. I still drive one old car on a regular basis
and the plugs, points etc are over five years old and it has NEVER
failed to start.

JT

"High Tech Misfit" > wrote in message
...
>I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
> been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start
> of
> the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
> They include:
>
> - Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
> - Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
> here); panel was replaced with a used one;
> - Hood release cable broke;
> - Clogged fuel filter;
> - Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due
> to
> years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
> - Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.
>
> The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items
> set
> me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have
> just
> popped up:
>
> 1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
> suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
> that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
> had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
> was the tires).
>
> 2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in
> and
> out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
> the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
> sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
> underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
> replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?
>
> 3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
> acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
> don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler
> and
> cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
> replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is
> known
> to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.
>
> 4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
> on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
> next spring.
>
> I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues
> and
> some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
> new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
> time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
> year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
> there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
> have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than
> I
> have been this year.
>
> Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for
> a
> car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
> over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)
>
> So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?

Everyone else posted good points about cost. Here are some other things you
can do, or think about. Have your mechanic or another mechanic/dealership
do a once over on the entire car, and see what else may need attention soon.
You can go through your old records and see what has/hasn't already been
done.

On top of the costs think about the time and inconvenience of taking the car
to the shop and the possibility it can have a major break down when you're
driving. Then think of the costs of a new/another used car, the payments
unless you're fortunate enough to pay off in full. With a new car, you'll
get peace of mind and knowing everything is new and *should* work fine.
Also the warranty. With a new car you could be making monthly payments on
something that would still depreciate but still hold more value. With a
used car, there are no monthly payments but constant maintenance going into
a car that is worth very little.

I was in a similar situation and every time I turned around there was
another unexpected problem that cost more $$$ than expected. Was finally
talked into buying new - tell ya what. The peace of mind of a reliable car
and not worrying about unusual maintenance, at least for a long time, was
worth it!

You'll need to check your circumstances and crunch the numbers to see if
it's worth it to you. If you decide to buy new and don't need to dump big
change into your car right away, you'll have the advantage of TIME while
shopping for another car which will give negotiating power to you.

I'm not telling you to buy a newer car, or to fix your current one. Just
something to think about..

Good luck!
-Dave

High Tech Misfit wrote:
>
> So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?

It all depends on your finances and your personal priorities. 13 years
in Canadian conditions is a lot IMO. You are at a point where things
might keep going wrong once every few months or you might get long
periods without trouble.

If you can afford the peace of mind of a newer car I would say that it
is time, but really only you can answer those questions.

John

High Tech Misfit wrote:
> I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
> been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start of
> the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
> They include:
>
> - Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
> - Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
> here); panel was replaced with a used one;
> - Hood release cable broke;
> - Clogged fuel filter;
> - Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due to
> years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
> - Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.
>
> The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items set
> me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have just
> popped up:
>
> 1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
> suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
> that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
> had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
> was the tires).
>
> 2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in and
> out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
> the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
> sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
> underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
> replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?
>
> 3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
> acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
> don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler and
> cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
> replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is known
> to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.
>
> 4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
> on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
> next spring.
>
> I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues and
> some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
> new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
> time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
> year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
> there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
> have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than I
> have been this year.
>
> Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for a
> car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
> over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)
>
> So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?

Regarding #2 Fuel smell is probably the fuel line joint where it
transitions from metal to rubber on the left side of the tank. Take a
close look, and may be an easy fix. Cut out the old joint and put in a
small length of hose with two clamps.

About #3 Exhaust might be leaking at the flexible joint on the front
pipe. If it is, go to the home center and get a piece of galvanized heat
duct 24' long, and cut it to the right length and wrap it around the
flex area. Use three stainless steel worm drive clamps to hold it tight.
This repair will out last the car.

And #4 Radiator is easy, but will cost some money. I have done three
on my '92, and the last one was free because the one I found had a
lifetime guarantee.

I am just now struggling with the same questions about my good old '92
LX. Rust is BAD behind the rear bumper front attach points just aft of
the rear wheels. Large holes there. This is after a gas tank and cat
replacement this year. The windshield is cracked too, from rust at the
upper left roof seam.
I plan to keep going till the doors fall off because with 235,000 miles
on it, it is only valuable to me. That is UNLESS I can find a rust free
White two door coupe that needs an engine! bob

N.E.Ohio Bob wrote:

> Regarding #2 Fuel smell is probably the fuel line joint where it
> transitions from metal to rubber on the left side of the tank. Take a
> close look, and may be an easy fix. Cut out the old joint and put in a
> small length of hose with two clamps.
>
> About #3 Exhaust might be leaking at the flexible joint on the front
> pipe. If it is, go to the home center and get a piece of galvanized heat
> duct 24' long, and cut it to the right length and wrap it around the
> flex area. Use three stainless steel worm drive clamps to hold it tight.
> This repair will out last the car.
>
> And #4 Radiator is easy, but will cost some money. I have done three
> on my '92, and the last one was free because the one I found had a
> lifetime guarantee.
>
Thanks for this info. In response to somebody else who referred to me being
too dependent on the mechanic, I would do my own maintenance if I wasn't so
clumsy with my hands. Not to mention that I have neither time nor space to
do much of it myself.


> I am just now struggling with the same questions about my good old '92
> LX. Rust is BAD behind the rear bumper front attach points just aft of
> the rear wheels. Large holes there. This is after a gas tank and cat
> replacement this year. The windshield is cracked too, from rust at the
> upper left roof seam.
> I plan to keep going till the doors fall off because with 235,000 miles
> on it, it is only valuable to me. That is UNLESS I can find a rust free
> White two door coupe that needs an engine! bob

Surprisingly, my Accord has only minimal rust on the body, less than many
other 4th-gen Accords around here.

"N.E.Ohio Bob" wrote:
>
> High Tech Misfit wrote:
> > I think my '93 Accord is cursed! Up until the start of this year, it had
> > been rock solid with very few non-routine problems. But since the start of
> > the year, it has experienced a handful of silly and/or annoying problems.
> > They include:
> >
> > - Bent shock sleeve causing an annoying squeak over the slightest bumps;
> > - Stiff climate control slider switch (I may have posted about this issue
> > here); panel was replaced with a used one;
> > - Hood release cable broke;
> > - Clogged fuel filter;
> > - Muffler, catalytic converter, and some other exhaust parts replaced due to
> > years of corrosion--not to mention loudness under acceleration;
> > - Left front upper control arm replaced due to play in the ball joint.
> >
> > The first 4 items were minor in severity and cost, but the last 2 items set
> > me back considerably more financially. And now, some more issues have just
> > popped up:
> >
> > 1. When the control arm was replaced a couple weeks ago, my mechanic
> > suggested that the EGR ports be cleaned. OK, I have no problem in getting
> > that done, about an hour of labour. I had felt for some time that the car
> > had been slightly "missing" at times (in fact, I had previously thought it
> > was the tires).
> >
> > 2. This started a few days ago... I have been noticing gas fumes both in and
> > out of the car but it's not always there. It's most evident upon starting
> > the car (cold or warm) and just after it has been turned off, although
> > sometimes it could be detected while driving. I checked for leaks
> > underneath and there were none. In fact, the tank and fuel lines were
> > replaced a few years ago. Would something else cause a non-liquid leak?
> >
> > 3. This started yesterday... the car is once again very loud under
> > acceleration (louder than before the muffler, cat, etc. were replaced). I
> > don't remember what other parts were replaced before besides the muffler and
> > cat, but could there be some other part on the exhaust that would need
> > replacing? I saw something on Tegger's site about an "A-pipe" that is known
> > to cause buzzing, but I do not know if that was ever replaced.
> >
> > 4. Finally, my mechanic (who has always been honest and has done good work
> > on my car) advised me that the radiator will likely need to be replaced by
> > next spring.
> >
> > I have already spent $1700 (CDN) on maintenance this year (above issues and
> > some regular maintenance). But with more money about to be spent on these
> > new issues (radiator will wait for now), I am now wondering if this is the
> > time to consider a newer car. I know that what I have spent so far this
> > year averaged over 12 months is still lower than monthly car payments, but
> > there's no way of telling what will go wrong next and how much more I will
> > have to spend. And I would prefer to spend less time at the mechanic than I
> > have been this year.
> >
> > Then again, even though the car has only 241,000km (~ 150,000 miles), for a
> > car of this age to live through all those harsh winters and numerous trips
> > over ridiculously rough roads, I suppose it doesn't owe me a thing. :-)
> >
> > So what do you think I should do? Should I keep it and maintain hope that
> > next year will be better? Or should I start looking for something newer?
>
> Regarding #2 Fuel smell is probably the fuel line joint where it
> transitions from metal to rubber on the left side of the tank. Take a
> close look, and may be an easy fix. Cut out the old joint and put in a
> small length of hose with two clamps.
>
> About #3 Exhaust might be leaking at the flexible joint on the front
> pipe. If it is, go to the home center and get a piece of galvanized heat
> duct 24' long, and cut it to the right length and wrap it around the
> flex area. Use three stainless steel worm drive clamps to hold it tight.
> This repair will out last the car.
>
> And #4 Radiator is easy, but will cost some money. I have done three
> on my '92, and the last one was free because the one I found had a
> lifetime guarantee.
>
> I am just now struggling with the same questions about my good old '92
> LX. Rust is BAD behind the rear bumper front attach points just aft of
> the rear wheels. Large holes there. This is after a gas tank and cat
> replacement this year. The windshield is cracked too, from rust at the
> upper left roof seam.
> I plan to keep going till the doors fall off because with 235,000 miles
> on it, it is only valuable to me. That is UNLESS I can find a rust free
> White two door coupe that needs an engine! bob


You bring up a good point regarding putting a good drive train into a
rust free body. If I were the original poster, I would look for a rust
free body from Texas, Arizona or southern California that might be
drivable to his location.

JT

(Who will be putting a rust free '82 Civic on eBay soon...<g>)

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:

> You bring up a good point regarding putting a good drive train into a
> rust free body. If I were the original poster, I would look for a rust
> free body from Texas, Arizona or southern California that might be
> drivable to his location.

The engine and tranny in my Accord are all original and working great. But
I am in Canada, so there may be complications in getting a rust-free body up
from the U.S. south.

Update: The loud exhaust note became even louder today (it's loud enough to
make a ricer proud), and fuel is now leaking ever so slightly from
underneath (near the front of the left rear tire). I'm going to get those
problems fixed tomorrow, even if it means going to any mechanic and getting
cheap (i.e. short-term) parts.

And then it looks like I will be looking for a newer car. *sigh*

Thanks for the responses.