Battery on Concrete / Water-Witching same?

I was surprised that my "factory" manual that came with a 2002 boat/motor, was still propagating
the idea that "storing a battery on concrete" would contribute to its discharge.
With my considerable background in electronics, I have never heard a credible explanation for this.
Does anyone have one? It seems to me more like Water-Witching and Religion.....more Faith than Fact.

I believe that is an old fairy tale which dates way on back to old style
batteries, for whatever reasons, about storing a battey on concrete.I
don't see how it would have any effect at all on modern day
batteries.The main thing is to keep the battery charged up properly and
in my opinion, use the battery once in a while.
cuhulin

I've heard this on and off for years, and have never really been able
to figure out the physics of it either. Some discussions in urban-
folklore circles make me classify it as "ascribing false causality" to
a battery's natural loss of charge at a fractional percentage while
just sitting there -- exacerbated by any acid that leaked over the
case (batteries used to be leakier, especially up top, than they are
now). Some people say that trapped moisture under the battery might
also help in the completion of a circuit.

(Even modern batteries leak a bit, as anyone can testify who has found
hidden corrosion under the battery tray in a car that's been in
service, with typical (lack of) maintenance, for several years or
more.)

It may have had even more of a basis in fact in olden times when a
battery involved a "battery jar" in a wooden case, but that was
donkey's years ago and probably has little to do with relatively
modern rubber or plastic cased batteries.
http://www.interstatebatteries.com/w...tech_maint.htm


As someone points out in one such discussion at
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/u...0;t=000695;p=1
there is also some likelihood that the battery was put on the floor
because it was unsatisfactory in some way in the first place,
whereupon it failed to get better with age. See also
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm -- in particular the
statement that "Lead-acid batteries must always be stored in a charged
state. {...} Prolonged storage below the critical voltage causes
sulfation, a condition that is difficult to reverse." In other words,
the concrete isn't the killer of the battery, just its tombstone.

Those sites also have quite a bit of information on the care and
feeding of costly batteries that most people probably don't know, as
does
http://www.batteryfaq.org/

I might add that if a battery is leaking a lot, it can uglify the
concrete (or pretty much whatever else you set it on), but a seriously
leaking battery needs secondary containment pending proper disposal
anyway.

Cheers,
--Joe

Gene Gardner wrote:
> I was surprised that my "factory" manual that came with a 2002 boat/motor, was still propagating
> the idea that "storing a battery on concrete" would contribute to its discharge.
> With my considerable background in electronics, I have never heard a credible explanation for this.
> Does anyone have one? It seems to me more like Water-Witching and Religion.....more Faith than Fact.
>

Sure it is a fact and does happen. Batteries get a thin layer of acid
on them as they charge and discharge which comes from the vents or even
splashes from moving. That is why you can burn holes in pants by
picking up a battery.

This layer, although thin will allow some current to flow over the
battery to the concrete floor which will discharge a battery over time
like a winter storage and leave a stain on the floor.

I tried an experiment with my electric boat batteries and left a couple
on concrete for a winter, the rest were on plywood. The concrete ones
drained down, the plywood ones held.

And 'water witching' works really well! I have found well sources and
can even find a blocked sewer pipe under a concrete floor or trace out
sewer pipes with running water in them! Saves a lot of digging when
hooking up a new toilet or fixing trouble.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:33:22 +0000 (UTC), (Gene
Gardner) wrote:

>
>
>
>I was surprised that my "factory" manual that came with a 2002 boat/motor, was still propagating
> the idea that "storing a battery on concrete" would contribute to its discharge.
>With my considerable background in electronics, I have never heard a credible explanation for this.
>Does anyone have one? It seems to me more like Water-Witching and Religion.....more Faith than Fact.
>
>
It's not a myth.What happens is this. Concrete by it's nature and
size/weight deadens vibration. It also maintains a more constant
temperature than other surfaces.

Those two factors lead to a battery that will over time allow
stratification of the chemicals of the battery much more readily
than a battery that gets moved around from time to time. This
stratification harms the battery.

Mike Romain wrote:
> And 'water witching' works really well! I have found well sources and
> can even find a blocked sewer pipe under a concrete floor or trace out
> sewer pipes with running water in them! Saves a lot of digging when
> hooking up a new toilet or fixing trouble.
>

Well, Mike, you're in for a treat then! Just prove to James Randi
that you can really do it, and the $1,000,000 is yours!
Apropos, how exactly do you do it? What appliance do you use?
(Stick(s), wood, metal, shape?)

The Aboriginals in Australia know how to find water in the desert with a
long straw.I guess they do anyway, I saw it on one of those Crocodile
Dundee movies.Get two Coca Cola bottles (or similar bottles) and cut two
pieces of coat hanger and bend them at a right angle, put the wires in
the bottles and walk around and see if you can find any water.
cuhulin

Patok wrote:
> Mike Romain wrote:
>> And 'water witching' works really well! I have found well sources and
>> can even find a blocked sewer pipe under a concrete floor or trace out
>> sewer pipes with running water in them! Saves a lot of digging when
>> hooking up a new toilet or fixing trouble.
>>
>
> Well, Mike, you're in for a treat then! Just prove to James Randi
> that you can really do it, and the $1,000,000 is yours!
> Apropos, how exactly do you do it? What appliance do you use?
> (Stick(s), wood, metal, shape?)

Been doing it since I was a kid. I use a Y stick of either willow or
alder and they will dive at water strong enough to peel off the bark in
my hands if I try to hold them up if there is a good water source.

My dad was a skeptic too until I traced the house sewer pipes and he
compared my chalk marks to the blueprints.

I know lots of others too, why is someone offering money for a well
finder? They are common in rural areas of Canada.

Mike
86/00 CJ7 Laredo, 33x9.5 BFG Muds, 'glass nose to tail in '00
88 Cherokee 235 BFG AT's - Gone to the rust pile...
Canadian Off Road Trips Photos: Non members can still view!
Jan/06 http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2115147590
(More Off Road album links at bottom of the view page)

> wrote in message > It's not a myth.What happens is this.
Concrete by it's nature and
> size/weight deadens vibration. It also maintains a more constant
> temperature than other surfaces.
>
> Those two factors lead to a battery that will over time allow
> stratification of the chemicals of the battery much more readily
> than a battery that gets moved around from time to time. This
> stratification harms the battery.

Sorry to be crude, but my comment to this is "horse****!"

wrote:
>
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 18:33:22 +0000 (UTC), (Gene
> Gardner) wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I was surprised that my "factory" manual that came with a 2002 boat/motor, was still propagating
> > the idea that "storing a battery on concrete" would contribute to its discharge.
> >With my considerable background in electronics, I have never heard a credible explanation for this.
> >Does anyone have one? It seems to me more like Water-Witching and Religion.....more Faith than Fact.
> >
> >
> It's not a myth.What happens is this. Concrete by it's nature and
> size/weight deadens vibration. It also maintains a more constant
> temperature than other surfaces.

I think the location of the concrete is the major factor. Uninsulated
concrete in an unheated garage is always cold and damp. The reason the
concrete is cold is because the ground is cold and the warmer air will
condense moisture. If you set a battery on the concrete the battery will
also be cold and damp. It's gets damp because moisture condenses on cold
objects. If you set the battery on a surface that is insulated from the
cold concrete the battery will stay closer to air temperature and have
less condensation.
On the other hand if you put the battery on concrete that is insulated
in a heated building then the problem of condensation is not present. If
the battery stays nice and dry it won't lose its charge as fast.


>
> Those two factors lead to a battery that will over time allow
> stratification of the chemicals of the battery much more readily
> than a battery that gets moved around from time to time. This
> stratification harms the battery.

So your theory is you put it on the floor then you forget about it? Put
the battery on a workbench and you are always moving it to get it out of
your way.

-jim

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----