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#32
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tony Harding wrote:
> jim beam wrote: >> Tegger wrote: >>> wrote in >>> : >>>> On Jan 29, 7:05 pm, Grumpy AuContraire > >>>> wrote: >>> >>>> i drive industrial vehicles at work and i realise that most of the >>>> engines in these vehicles are diesel-powered, oil-cooled, no >>>> computers, compact in size and yet puts out decent power with good >>>> fuel efficiency, they can take a good abuse and yet requires virtually >>>> no maintenance, other than scheduled oil and filter changes... >>> >>> And none but the barest governmental diktats. >>> >>> >>>> corporate america knows what's best for them.. but us consumers are >>>> f*cked... haha >>> >>> "Corporate America" had cars getting ever /simpler/ for the consumer >>> over the decades. >>> It's the government that's to blame for complexity, specifically the >>> EPA and NHTSA. You can call what they do good, bad or indifferent, >>> but it is undeniable that their mandates have introduced enormous and >>> hugely expensive complication into cars. >> >> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. > > Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 in > the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & Driver > article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non trivial. that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money values, not last. |
#33
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
The EGR valve is stuck open.
> wrote in message ... > On the way to work last week, my Accord died on me when I took it out > of gear (manual trans) as I approached a stop. It restarted but, would > not idle unless I held my foot on the accelerator and kept it at about > 1000 rpms. When it's cold, it idles fine but as soon as it warms up > you can watch the rpms drop and it will die. Restart and hold the > accelerator and its fine. I've read that it could be clogged fuel > filter(s) or something to do with the carb. I don't have the money to > take to someone to have it fixed so, I'll have to do it myself and I > don't have the money to replace this and that. BTW it's carburated > not fuel injected. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks |
#34
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
jim beam wrote:
> Tony Harding wrote: <snip> >>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >> >> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 in >> the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >> Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non trivial. > > that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money > values, not last. <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a very significant cost factor. |
#35
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tony Harding > wrote in
: > jim beam wrote: >> Tony Harding wrote: > > <snip> > >>>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>>> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>> >>> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>> in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >>> Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>> trivial. >> >> that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >> values, not last. > > <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - > suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a > very significant cost factor. > $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. It has been estimated (forget where I read this; might have been Forbes) that the cost of meeting the myriad regulations and mandates adds up to many thousands of dollars per car. -- Tegger The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ www.tegger.com/hondafaq/ |
#36
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tegger wrote:
> Tony Harding > wrote in > : > >> jim beam wrote: >>> Tony Harding wrote: >> <snip> >> >>>>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>>>> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>>>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>>> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>>> in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >>>> Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>>> trivial. >>> that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >>> values, not last. >> <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - >> suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a >> very significant cost factor. >> > > > > $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. > > It has been estimated (forget where I read this; might have been Forbes) > that the cost of meeting the myriad regulations and mandates adds up to > many thousands of dollars per car. > retail, not wholesale. listening to detroit bleating about costs is like listening to the riaa say they're incurring $1.5M loss for the copying of one cd. |
#37
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tegger wrote: > Tony Harding > wrote in > : > > >>jim beam wrote: >> >>>Tony Harding wrote: >> >><snip> >> >>>>>a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>>>the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>>>>volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>>>>all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>>>significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>>> >>>>Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>>>in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >>>>Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>>>trivial. >>> >>>that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >>>values, not last. >> >><ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - >>suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a >>very significant cost factor. >> > > > > > $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. > > It has been estimated (forget where I read this; might have been Forbes) > that the cost of meeting the myriad regulations and mandates adds up to > many thousands of dollars per car. > Don't fret too much... They, (the guv'ment), still has not insisted that onboard porta potties be provided for each vehicle manufactured. After all, they do have thangs like airpressure checks etc. How friggin' lazy have we gotten? <grrrr> JT |
#38
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tegger wrote:
> Tony Harding > wrote in > : > >> jim beam wrote: >>> Tony Harding wrote: >> <snip> >> >>>>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>>>> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>>>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>>> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>>> in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >>>> Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>>> trivial. >>> that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >>> values, not last. >> <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - >> suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a >> very significant cost factor. > > > $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. Even at $1,500, the incremental cost of $500 is a big deal. (Thanks for looking it up, BTW) |
#39
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
Tony Harding wrote:
> Tegger wrote: >> Tony Harding > wrote in >> : >>> jim beam wrote: >>>> Tony Harding wrote: >>> <snip> >>> >>>>>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>>>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind of >>>>>> volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with catalyst and >>>>>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>>>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>>>> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>>>> in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car & >>>>> Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>>>> trivial. >>>> that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >>>> values, not last. >>> <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - >>> suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a >>> very significant cost factor. >> >> >> $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. > > Even at $1,500, the incremental cost of $500 is a big deal. (Thanks for > looking it up, BTW) on a $15k+ car??? that's 3%. and that cost, for the manufacturer, is more than recouped by fewer returns under warranty. for the consumer, it's significantly greater as it allows almost total avoidance of all that b.s. tune-up rip-off we used to endure. |
#40
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1988 Honda Accord won't idle when warmed up
jim beam wrote:
> Tony Harding wrote: >> Tegger wrote: >>> Tony Harding > wrote in >>> : >>>> jim beam wrote: >>>>> Tony Harding wrote: >>>> <snip> >>>> >>>>>>> a lot of this "complication" is not that expensive. well, it is at >>>>>>> the consumer end, but not for the manufacturers. at their kind >>>>>>> of volume levels, a complete fuel injection package, with >>>>>>> catalyst and >>>>>>> all sensors, is probably less than $500. that's not exactly a >>>>>>> significant burden on a vehicle retailing for over $15k. >>>>>> Guess again, Detroit's cost to produce an entire V8 engine was $150 >>>>>> in the late 60's/early 70's (I'm remembering this from an old Car >>>>>> & Driver article), so $500 just for the FI system is decidedly non >>>>>> trivial. >>>>> that might be a useful comparison if you used this century's money >>>>> values, not last. >>>> <ignoring the snark factor> Not too hard to adjust the dollars - >>>> suppose the $150 in 1970 dollars is $500 in 2008 dollars, it's still a >>>> very significant cost factor. >>> >>> >>> $150 1970 dollars is about $1,500 in today's money. >> >> Even at $1,500, the incremental cost of $500 is a big deal. (Thanks >> for looking it up, BTW) > > on a $15k+ car??? that's 3%. and that cost, for the manufacturer, is > more than recouped by fewer returns under warranty. for the consumer, > it's significantly greater as it allows almost total avoidance of all > that b.s. tune-up rip-off we used to endure. I disagree - auto manufacturers are very cost sensitive and that's an enormous incremental cost (for the engine, not the entire car). |
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