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159 2.4 JTD



 
 
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  #41  
Old June 9th 07, 06:14 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Tony Rickard
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Posts: 190
Default 159 2.4 JTD

Zathras wrote:

>> the 2.0TS was noticeably more fun on the twisty stuff with a weight advantage

>
> Indeed. It's a similar argument for the 2.5V6 as well. There always
> seem to be downsides..sadly.


Quite. I chose the V6 as the engine made it worthwhile for me. I guess
you would say exactly the same for choosing the JTD.

>> and a chance to use the higher revs.

>
> That's the key point..*a chance*..I find that the diesel is far more
> exploitable in the kind of driving I do on the somewhat congested
> roads I travel.


Fortunately I have a commute run that includes a lovely B road section
that is more than often clear. It isn't really a shortcut for anyone but
is worth the extra distance. Nothing really in it time wise but very
satisfying.

> Have you tried any of the VAG V6 diesels?


No. The current 4 cylinder units are powerful but quite rough. The
office car park sounds like a Massey Ferguson convention at home time...

>> The 1.9JTDm I drove in a 159 could have been any other anonymous diesel
>> - which I found most disappointing.

>
> I'm not surprised. I don't like the sound of 4 cylinder
> diesels..period. I wouldn't be happy having one. For me, the 159 is a
> big disappointment (looks as well as performance) and I'm not
> desperately keen to have an anonymous, characterless German car any
> more.


Back in 2003 the 156 was for me in a class of its own style wise and the
A4 of the same era was as dull as ditch water inside. I don't have that
"must have" feeling with the current Alfas and I am quite content with
the style of the new A3 interior which is not dissimilar to the TT.

I did tend to lump the German cars together but after looking more
closely the latest generation Audis and the VW GTI do have some more
character than their so bland predecessors, whilst the Mercs and BMWs
all have a particular style across the range that leaves me cold.

It seems to me the gap is closing between the German quality but lacking
flair compared with the Italian style. Whether that is some of the
German cars adopting a new sense of style or the Alfas trying to entice
the German car buyers by being more conservative I am not sure...

Cheers
Tony





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  #42  
Old June 9th 07, 09:32 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
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Posts: 742
Default 159 2.4 JTD

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 17:14:05 GMT, Tony Rickard
> wrote:

>The office car park sounds like a Massey Ferguson convention at home time...


LOL.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
  #43  
Old June 10th 07, 11:08 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
[email protected]
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Posts: 6
Default 159 2.4 JTD


Zathras ha scritto:

> On Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:31:26 -0700, davea >
> wrote:
>
> >On 5 Jun, 22:25, (SteveH) wrote:
> >> GT > wrote:
> >> > Anyone in here got (or driven) the new 2.4 Diesel plant in a 159 yet. 200
> >> > horses and tree uprooting torque sounds pretty impressive. Just wondered
> >> > what it 'actually' performs like and what the engine sounds like? I'll be
> >> > looking for a second hand (up to 24 months old) one in a year or 2...
> >>

> >
> >It's not bad but still sounds like a big heavy diesel despite what the
> >salesmen say. I went and test drove a 159 and it was the diesel they
> >gave me. Wouldn't take it over the petrol engine 2.2l. The sound of
> >any diesel engine puts me off completely and this is no different. If
> >you go and see one get the salesman to start a diesel and then start a
> >petrol one, you will see what I mean. Don't know what it is but they
> >harp on about this diesel engine as if it's gods gift to the 159.

>
> Well, at a guess, because the 2.4 is quicker, faster and significantly
> less thirsty than the petrol 2.2?
>
> >In terms of performance yes it's pretty quick for a big car. The 3.2
> >V6 would obviously leave it standing but I would say its on par with
> >the 2.2 but the petrol does sound a lot better!
> >
> >Up to me, go for the petrol 2.2.

>
> If it were up to me, I'd ask the guy at Alfa why his cars are so
> slowwww to accelerate. IMHO, the cars are about a second to 60 off the
> mark - comparing to some others. I mean, for goodness sake, the 3.2 is
> a mere 0.4s 0-60 quicker than that massive 3 litre diesel Chrysler
> 300C ffs! :-( The 3.2 couldn't even catch an A4 3.0 diesel off the
> mark - now this is *not* right..is it??
>
> --
> Z
> Scotland
> Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
> 'Oil' be seeing you..
> (Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)



There will be a power step for diesel engines very soon: 210 hp for
the 2.4 (already available with Q4 traction) and 170 hp for the 1.9.
There will be also a new lightweight chassis for the 159 in the
autumn,so I think that the gap with
german cars will be fixed soon,at least for performance.
But in general I think that it's not good trying to get more and more
power from diesel engines because they become like tuned cars with big
turbos:undrivable.A diesel that can not rev over 5000 and that have no
torque under 2000 revs is useless and boring to drive.In fact I driven
a 170hp 2.0 tdi A3 and I really didn't like it : big boost over 2000
and at 4000 you have to change gear.For me, the only good diesel today
is BMW's 335d : it have nearly instant power and it pulls
great even at 5000 revs.

  #44  
Old June 11th 07, 08:38 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 742
Default 159 2.4 JTD

On Sun, 10 Jun 2007 22:08:10 -0000, wrote:

>There will be a power step for diesel engines very soon: 210 hp for
>the 2.4 (already available with Q4 traction) and 170 hp for the 1.9.


Ok..as long as the power band and throttle response is good.

>There will be also a new lightweight chassis for the 159 in the
>autumn,


Wow! That doesn't sound like your average midlife car facelift. IIRC
the 159 chassis was developed in partnership with Saab so I'd expect
it to be solid and safe rather than a sporting lightweight.

>so I think that the gap with
>german cars will be fixed soon,at least for performance.


If it is, that'll help make the current 159 a lot more affordable on
the secondhand marked!

>But in general I think that it's not good trying to get more and more
>power from diesel engines because they become like tuned cars with big
>turbos:undrivable.


I agree, but the problem appears worst on smaller capacity (2.0)
diesels than bigger ones.

>A diesel that can not rev over 5000 and that have no
>torque under 2000 revs is useless and boring to drive.


I could easily live with that if the band between 2000-5000 was good
and solid. As long as the power/torque band rev range is wider than
the gear ratio rev difference, it will go fine.

>In fact I driven
>a 170hp 2.0 tdi A3 and I really didn't like it : big boost over 2000
>and at 4000 you have to change gear.


TBH, that's what diesels do. Ok, mine has a wider band than that but
it's bigger capacity.

>For me, the only good diesel today
>is BMW's 335d : it have nearly instant power and it pulls
>great even at 5000 revs.


That's what I'd expect..really. I'd like to see a bigger capacity V6
diesel in a Q4 159 but I'm not holding my breath.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email without 'Alfa' in subject are auto-deleted..sorry!)
 




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