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Consider buying American!



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 12th 08, 07:54 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Pszemol
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 400
Default Consider buying American!

"Tony Harding" > wrote in message ...
> tater wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>
>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>
>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>> car.
>>>

>>
>> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>> next coffee break is than making quality cars. They've negotiated themselves
>> right out of jobs as the big auto makers cut back. It's not possible to do
>> business that way and compete on a world wide economy.

>
> It's hardly the workers' fault - Honda & Toyota employ American workers
> and turn out quality vehicles. This is a management failing.


Anybody remembers what was in the news some years ago about
Jesse Jackson accusations to Nissan of racism ? Was it workers
hiring process related? I forgot the details...
Ads
  #22  
Old February 12th 08, 08:11 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota, rec.autos.makers.honda, alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes, alt.autos.bmw
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 31
Default Consider buying American!

On Feb 12, 8:46Â*am, wrote:
> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> > >http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/

>
> > > GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
> > > ever annual loss for a US automaker.

>
> > > The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
> > > they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
> > > car.

>
> > > Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
> > > Annual Auto Issue:

>
> > > Buick Lacrosse
> > > Buick Lucerne
> > > Cadillac CTS
> > > Cadillac CTS-V
> > > Cadillac DTS
> > > Chevrolet HHR
> > > Chevrolet Impala
> > > Chevrolet Malibu
> > > Chevrolet Tahoe
> > > Chrysler 300
> > > Chrysler PT Cruiser
> > > Dodge Durango
> > > Ford Five Hundred
> > > Ford Focus
> > > Ford Freestyle
> > > Ford Fusion
> > > GMC Yukon
> > > Jeep Liberty
> > > Lincoln MKZ
> > > Lincoln Town Car
> > > Mercury Milan
> > > Mercury Montego
> > > Pontiac G6
> > > Pontiac Torrent

>
> > What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?

>
> Toyota and Honda assemble cars all over the world, but the profits go
> back to Japan.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


Really! I would think the profits go first to the US subsidiaries to
pay for taxes, salaries, helathcare, workers's comp, plant
modernization, worker education. U.S. subsidiaries of Japanese auto
makers use the same ratio of pay differences between a manager and his/
her direct reports as they do in Japan.

Japan make a car that goes 250,000 miles without major repairs, runs
like brand new till it falls apart or we just give it to someone.
Korea, somewhat new to auto making, can do the same. But the US car
companies make ****. Answer that for me. I have a few ideas but you
can go first.

People are also dumping VWs for the same reasons Americans are dumping
U.S. cars.
  #23  
Old February 12th 08, 08:15 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

wrote:
> On Feb 12, 8:46 am, wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 8:41�am, Jeff > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. �Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>>>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>>> Buick Lacrosse
>>>> Buick Lucerne
>>>> Cadillac CTS
>>>> Cadillac CTS-V
>>>> Cadillac DTS
>>>> Chevrolet HHR
>>>> Chevrolet Impala
>>>> Chevrolet Malibu
>>>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>>>> Chrysler 300
>>>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>>>> Dodge Durango
>>>> Ford Five Hundred
>>>> Ford Focus
>>>> Ford Freestyle
>>>> Ford Fusion
>>>> GMC Yukon
>>>> Jeep Liberty
>>>> Lincoln MKZ
>>>> Lincoln Town Car
>>>> Mercury Milan
>>>> Mercury Montego
>>>> Pontiac G6
>>>> Pontiac Torrent
>>> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?

>> Toyota and Honda assemble cars all over the world, but the profits go
>> back to Japan.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

>
> Really! I would think the profits go first to the US subsidiaries to
> pay for taxes, salaries, helathcare, workers's comp, plant
> modernization, worker education. U.S. subsidiaries of Japanese auto
> makers use the same ratio of pay differences between a manager and his/
> her direct reports as they do in Japan.
>
> Japan make a car that goes 250,000 miles without major repairs, runs
> like brand new till it falls apart or we just give it to someone.
> Korea, somewhat new to auto making, can do the same. But the US car
> companies make ****. Answer that for me. I have a few ideas but you
> can go first.


Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
cars, too.

jeff


> People are also dumping VWs for the same reasons Americans are dumping
> U.S. cars.

  #24  
Old February 12th 08, 08:20 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
R. Mark Clayton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 778
Default Consider buying American!

Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in the
USA.

The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.

The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
certainly the worst new one.

At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
were laughable in comparison.

The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i was
built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in almost
every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the Chrysler PT
Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor performance, poor trim,
poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You would be better off in a ten
year old base entry model 3 series than a new one of these.


Incidentally GM probably make the best "mass market" cars in Europe.



A man walks into a car spares shop and asks if they have a hub cap for a
1995 Lada - "sounds like a fair swap" says the chap behind the counter.


"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:fmhsj.6463$Wr4.5418@trnddc05...
> wrote:
>>
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>
>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>
>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>> car.
>>
>> Here are some American models recommended in the 2007 Consumer Reports
>> Annual Auto Issue:
>>
>> Buick Lacrosse
>> Buick Lucerne
>> Cadillac CTS
>> Cadillac CTS-V
>> Cadillac DTS
>> Chevrolet HHR
>> Chevrolet Impala
>> Chevrolet Malibu
>> Chevrolet Tahoe
>> Chrysler 300
>> Chrysler PT Cruiser
>> Dodge Durango
>> Ford Five Hundred
>> Ford Focus
>> Ford Freestyle
>> Ford Fusion
>> GMC Yukon
>> Jeep Liberty
>> Lincoln MKZ
>> Lincoln Town Car
>> Mercury Milan
>> Mercury Montego
>> Pontiac G6
>> Pontiac Torrent

>
> What about Toyotas and Hondas made in America?
>
> What the Ford Fusion, made in Mexico?
>
> Shouldn't the Michigan 3 make their vehicles relevant to me rather than
> the other way around?
>
> Jeff



  #25  
Old February 12th 08, 09:26 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Willshak
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 93
Default Consider buying American!

on 2/12/2008 1:54 PM Pszemol said the following:
> "Tony Harding" > wrote in message
> ...
>> tater wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23124844/
>>>>
>>>> GM just made it known that they lost 39 billion in 2007, the largest
>>>> ever annual loss for a US automaker.
>>>>
>>>> The big three are losing money, and if we don't give them the support
>>>> they need, they are going to go under. Consider buying an American
>>>> car.
>>>>
>>>
>>> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
>>> next coffee break is than making quality cars. They've negotiated
>>> themselves
>>> right out of jobs as the big auto makers cut back. It's not
>>> possible to do business that way and compete on a world wide economy.

>>
>> It's hardly the workers' fault - Honda & Toyota employ American
>> workers and turn out quality vehicles. This is a management failing.

>
> Anybody remembers what was in the news some years ago about
> Jesse Jackson accusations to Nissan of racism ? Was it workers
> hiring process related? I forgot the details...


The Nissan factory in Japan was only hiring Japanese.

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To email, remove the double zeroes after @
  #26  
Old February 12th 08, 10:07 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
nick[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 17
Default Consider buying American!

Sorry, Been there, done that. I owned nothing but
American cars from the 1950's to the 1970's.

Beginning in the mid-1960's I felt I was being
taken advantage of. Into the 70's I knew I was
being screwed.

Enough is enough.

Jimmy, Ford, and Chrysler produce CRAP. Really
badly made and badly assembled crap. Total waste
of my money. Do I look that dumb?

Rather have an Accord for 10 or 15 years with little
maintenance and not much money spent, great mileage,
good handling too.

  #27  
Old February 12th 08, 10:51 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in the
> USA.
>
> The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.
>
> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
> certainly the worst new one.
>
> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
> were laughable in comparison.
>
> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i was
> built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in almost
> every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the Chrysler PT
> Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor performance, poor trim,
> poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You would be better off in a ten
> year old base entry model 3 series than a new one of these.


A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American
cars of the era, too.

You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of
maintaining such a vehicle.

jeff

Jeff
  #28  
Old February 12th 08, 10:52 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff >
> wrote:
>
>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>> cars, too.

>
> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>
> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>
> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
> odds are so incredibly against that?


The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
record for the more recent cars is good.

Jeff
  #29  
Old February 13th 08, 12:04 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Michael Yeager wrote:
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2008 21:52:26 GMT, Jeff >
> wrote:
>
>> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>>> In article <rfmsj.26$dh.21@trnddc01>, Jeff >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Some cars made by XXXX (put in name of Korean, Japanese or American car
>>>> company) are really good, some are so-so and some are really bad. That's
>>>> true for all car companies. The proportion of bad American cars used to
>>>> be higher, but now, the American car companies are coming out with some
>>>> really good cars. And, the Japanese car companies made some really bad
>>>> cars, too.
>>> Joe Sixpack has $25,000 to spend on a car. That's a bunch of money to
>>> him, and he doesn't want to waste it.
>>>
>>> No matter what he does, he rolls the dice. So, what does he do?
>>>
>>> Does he buy GM or Ford or Chrysler, with a track record that would make
>>> a Russian tractory factory blush from embarassment? Or does he buy a
>>> Japanese nameplate--where, to be sure, one could get a bad car, but the
>>> odds are so incredibly against that?

>> The old track record for the Michigan 3 isn't so good. But the track
>> record for the more recent cars is good.
>>
>> Jeff

>
> Ford is recalling a ****LOAD of SUVs and vans (2006 and 2007 models)
> over problems that can result in the car burning to the ground. Seems
> they've had a lot of these over the past decade or so...


And Toyota has had a lot of recalls last year and the year before.

Please tell me the automaker who never makes any mistakes.

Jeff
  #30  
Old February 13th 08, 12:26 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
R. Mark Clayton
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 778
Default Consider buying American!


"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:fxosj.31$dh.15@trnddc01...
> R. Mark Clayton wrote:
>> Back in 1985, I hired a Buick Park Drive and a Pontiac Grand Am while in
>> the USA.
>>
>> The Buick was passable, but with very sloppy suspension etc.
>>
>> The Grand Am was appalling, one of the worst cars I have ever driven and
>> certainly the worst new one.
>>
>> At the time back in the UK I was driving a 1983 BMW 735i. Obviously this
>> was better than most EU cars of that era, however the US cars of the time
>> were laughable in comparison.
>>
>> The trouble [for the US car industry] is that 25 years after that 735i
>> was built it is probably still better than most US cars sold today in
>> almost every department. Some of them are still laughable e.g. the
>> Chrysler PT Cruiser - poor drive, poor ride, poor handling, poor
>> performance, poor trim, poor seats, poor reliability and so on. You
>> would be better off in a ten year old base entry model 3 series than a
>> new one of these.

>
> A BMW 735i probably cost about 3 times as much money as most American cars
> of the era, too.
>
> You get what you pay for, especially considering the high cost of
> maintaining such a vehicle.


But you don't have to replace it after just a few years.

Obviously cars are / were not taxed as much in the USA and over there a BMW
was a premium import.

Where it was made it would be a lot cheaper.

The main point was that a car designed and made in Europe a generation ago
is still better than most US made cars now.

The corrolory would be that current EU mass market cars (e.g. Ford Mondeo,
Vauxhall Vectra etc.) are better than their BMW market equivalents (3 and 5
series) of the mid 80's.

To put it another way the US is about 25 years behind Europe on car design,
build and quality control.

>
> jeff
>
> Jeff



 




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