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Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 23rd 07, 03:26 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
notaguru
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year

Josh S wrote:
> In article >,
> notaguru > wrote:
>
>> For example, my Prius may
>> never need a brake job...

>
> Dream on!



Initially I didn't realize how little wear there would
be on this hybrid, so at 40k bought pads and did the
check. I'm an engineer, so felt compelled to go for the
data. Toyota's replacement pads and the 40k pads
measured the same, though it's possible the spec changed
in the four years I've driven the car.

I returned the new pads with no restocking fee - the
dealer's partsdroid said they rarely sell pads for the
'04, and nearly all come back after the do-it-yourselfer
does the comparison.

It's not a dream, evidently.
Ads
  #22  
Old October 24th 07, 12:58 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Gordon McGrew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:32:09 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
> wrote:

>
>
>dgk wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:12:39 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>EdV wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Oct 19, 7:55 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article . com>,
>>>>>
>>>>>EdV > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You cant put a price tag on saving the environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, you can.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Imagine that to preserve an appropriate and viable balance of people and
>>>>>>>food supply, that we have to eliminate the population of, say, Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>We'd be saving the environment, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, not exactly what I had in mind, I was thinking more of hybrids
>>>>>>being able to reduce Carbon emissions and that you cant put a price on
>>>>>>that. That sort of stuff and no mass murder involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ah.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, then, you CAN put a price tag on saving the environment, then.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You are right, there's a way to compute Carbon emission per kilometer
>>>>or something, Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not a hybrid owner. To
>>>>be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
>>>>expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
>>>>buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><rant on>
>>>
>>>Why izzit that every new catchword becomes yet another fad.
>>>
>>>Got a carbon problem?
>>>
>>>Plant more trees!
>>>
>>>Why izzit that modern day PC folk insist on re-inventing wheel?
>>>
>>><rant over>
>>>
>>>JT

>>
>>
>> Planting more trees is a good idea and we're doing it in my
>> neighborhood. But there is a limit to how many trees we can fit
>>
>> It looks like human activity is causing some global problems. That
>> isn't really very surprising to me. We've dumped lots of stuff that
>> never existed in nature back into nature. We've cut down most of the
>> rain forests. We've pumped all kinds of stuff into the atmosphere.
>> We've caused the extinction of countless species (yes, we could
>> probably count them but I'm using the term to mean "a great many").
>>
>> And when it's pointed out that perhaps we'd better do something to
>> protect the only planet we have and pass it on to future generations,
>> we get all kinds of gruff. Well, fine, maybe we're wrong and there is
>> no problem. Let's just continue what we're doing until it's too late.
>> Maybe science will come up with a fix. Or maybe we'll all get wiped
>> out or face a much more hostile environment.
>>
>> Really, why should it bother me anyway? I'll be dead. I guess I'll buy
>> that hummer after all.
>>

>
>
>When it can be explained to me why adjacent planets are also warming up,


We don't have much historic data on average temperatures on Mars and
Venus. They are very different from Earth and from each other. We
really don't know what kind of cycles are in play there.

I couldn't find any reference on Venus warming recently. I only found
one reference on Mars warming referencing a paper in Nature which also
noted that the surface had gotten darker and speculating that some
kind of wind cycle churning up dust could be at play.


>then I may admit that human contributions, (which by the way amount to
>less than .5% of the increase in recent years), might be a factor.


How do you know that?


BTW, Venus is the poster boy for greenhouse climate change. Fifty
years ago it was assumed that the surface of Venus was like a swamp on
the equator of Earth. We now know it is more like a furnace. This is
the result of run-away global warming due to the high CO2 content of
its atmosphere. By some models, Earth starts to run away if the
average global temperature hits 80F.







>
>The loss of carbon conversion can largely be attributed to the
>destruction of the tropical and other rainforests and in that way, yes,
>we are a factor and one that could easily be reversed.
>
>But that does not 'plain the planetary warm up...
>
>JT
>

  #23  
Old October 24th 07, 01:08 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Gordon McGrew
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 07:26:02 -0700, notaguru
> wrote:

>Josh S wrote:
>> In article >,
>> notaguru > wrote:
>>
>>> For example, my Prius may
>>> never need a brake job...

>>
>> Dream on!

>
>
>Initially I didn't realize how little wear there would
>be on this hybrid, so at 40k bought pads and did the
>check. I'm an engineer, so felt compelled to go for the
>data. Toyota's replacement pads and the 40k pads
>measured the same, though it's possible the spec changed
>in the four years I've driven the car.
>
>I returned the new pads with no restocking fee - the
>dealer's partsdroid said they rarely sell pads for the
>'04, and nearly all come back after the do-it-yourselfer
>does the comparison.
>
>It's not a dream, evidently.


Actually, I can believe this, especially if the driver is driving for
economy and/or doing a lot of highway driving. I can drive my GS-R in
heavy Chicago traffic hardly using the brakes by just anticipating
traffic and using engine compression to slow the car. The regen
braking in a hybrid should work even better than compression braking.

  #24  
Old October 24th 07, 04:23 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
richard schumacher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

In article >,
Josh S > wrote:

> In article om>,
> EdV > wrote:
>
> > To
> > be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
> > expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
> > buy a hybrid. I kept my money.


> The most effective way to reduce our cars impact is to drive less.


Yes. Live near work and take mass transit when possible.
  #25  
Old October 24th 07, 01:54 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Doctor Geller
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

On Tue, 23 Oct 2007 03:32:09 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
> wrote:

>
>
>dgk wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 22 Oct 2007 00:12:39 GMT, Grumpy AuContraire
>> > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>EdV wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Oct 19, 7:55 pm, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In article . com>,
>>>>>
>>>>>EdV > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You cant put a price tag on saving the environment.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes, you can.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Imagine that to preserve an appropriate and viable balance of people and
>>>>>>>food supply, that we have to eliminate the population of, say, Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>We'd be saving the environment, right?
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, not exactly what I had in mind, I was thinking more of hybrids
>>>>>>being able to reduce Carbon emissions and that you cant put a price on
>>>>>>that. That sort of stuff and no mass murder involved.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ah.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, then, you CAN put a price tag on saving the environment, then.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You are right, there's a way to compute Carbon emission per kilometer
>>>>or something, Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not a hybrid owner. To
>>>>be honest I'm guilty too, do I want a keep my money and buy a less
>>>>expensive non hybrid car or do I my part to reduce carbon emission and
>>>>buy a hybrid. I kept my money.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>><rant on>
>>>
>>>Why izzit that every new catchword becomes yet another fad.
>>>
>>>Got a carbon problem?
>>>
>>>Plant more trees!
>>>
>>>Why izzit that modern day PC folk insist on re-inventing wheel?
>>>
>>><rant over>
>>>
>>>JT

>>
>>
>> Planting more trees is a good idea and we're doing it in my
>> neighborhood. But there is a limit to how many trees we can fit
>>
>> It looks like human activity is causing some global problems. That
>> isn't really very surprising to me. We've dumped lots of stuff that
>> never existed in nature back into nature. We've cut down most of the
>> rain forests. We've pumped all kinds of stuff into the atmosphere.
>> We've caused the extinction of countless species (yes, we could
>> probably count them but I'm using the term to mean "a great many").
>>
>> And when it's pointed out that perhaps we'd better do something to
>> protect the only planet we have and pass it on to future generations,
>> we get all kinds of gruff. Well, fine, maybe we're wrong and there is
>> no problem. Let's just continue what we're doing until it's too late.
>> Maybe science will come up with a fix. Or maybe we'll all get wiped
>> out or face a much more hostile environment.
>>
>> Really, why should it bother me anyway? I'll be dead. I guess I'll buy
>> that hummer after all.
>>

>
>
>When it can be explained to me why adjacent planets are also warming up,
>then I may admit that human contributions, (which by the way amount to
>less than .5% of the increase in recent years), might be a factor.
>
>The loss of carbon conversion can largely be attributed to the
>destruction of the tropical and other rainforests and in that way, yes,
>we are a factor and one that could easily be reversed.
>
>But that does not 'plain the planetary warm up...
>
>JT


....and smoking builds healthy lungs and dumping poisons in the river
makes our kids build strong bones...those crazy liberals are health
fiends....
  #26  
Old October 24th 07, 03:53 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
rick++
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 22
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
To the green-snobs out there, I am already driving one
the top 5% top mileage vehicles in the USA.

  #27  
Old October 24th 07, 08:00 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
who
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 421
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

In article .com>,
javawizard > wrote:

> There's a calculator at www.fast-math.org in which you can enter the
> estimated mileage (or kilometerage) you drive per year, the mileage
> your current car is getting, the mileage a proposed new car will get,
> and it will show you how much money you can save. If you already have
> a fuel-efficient car, you can have fun running as-ifs and after-the-
> fact comparisons.
> Take care,
> - Jeff -


It's actually a very simple calculation by just applying the mileage
ratio to your current gas costs. I've done it in Canadian units, but the
same idea could easily be modified for the imperial gallon or the tiny
USA gallon.

For example I now spend $1,200 per year on gas, driving 1,000 kms per
month.
My car is 8L/100 highway and 12.5L/100 city.
I drive 80% city, so my effective consumption is 11.6.
If a new smaller more efficient car is 7/10.5L/100 it's effective
consumption for me is 9.8L/100.
Therefore my gas cost with the new car is 1,200*9.6/11.6=$993
for a saving of $207 per year. A 17% saving, not a big deal for my low
mileage.
Tuning this figure up you could increase the saving to reflect the
expected increase in gas cost.
  #28  
Old October 25th 07, 03:56 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will SavePer Year

rick++ wrote:
> I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.


What increased maintenance costs?

> To the green-snobs out there, I am already driving one
> the top 5% top mileage vehicles in the USA.





  #29  
Old October 25th 07, 04:27 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
richard schumacher
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

In article <7BTTi.8075$0l4.7658@trnddc08>,
Jeff > wrote:

> > I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> > I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> > increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.

>
> What increased maintenance costs?


That's one of the favorite myths of the hybrid bashers. After four
years the Prius gets excellent reliability ratings. It's kinda nice
going 100,000 between brake pads and knowing that the transmission will
never need a rebuild.
  #30  
Old October 25th 07, 07:40 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota.prius,alt.autos.toyota,alt.autos.honda,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.energy.automobile
who
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 421
Default Figuring Out How Much a Hybrid, Diesel, or Small Car Will Save Per Year

In article .com>,
rick++ > wrote:

> I'd save 100 gallons a year going from a civic to a hybrid.
> I figured the payback was about 11 years, not counting
> increased maintenance costs of a more complex vehicle.
> To the green-snobs out there, I am already driving one
> the top 5% top mileage vehicles in the USA.


For 11 years you need to include main battery replacement, before that.
Did you, it costs big bucks?
 




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