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I finally found her



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 6th 11, 12:18 PM posted to alt.autos.subaru,alt.autos.audi
AD[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 423
Default I finally found her

On Jul 2, 6:23*am, Steampunk > wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jul 2011 05:54:00 -0700, weelliott wrote:
> > On Jun 28, 4:55*am, Body Roll > wrote:
> >> I'm happy to report that after much of angst and misery (with the much
> >> hated 2005 outback sport) I have found a suitable replacement for it.

>
> >> I'm happy with 2003 A4 quattro (sport package).
> >> No body roll despite the 17mm or so rear sway bar -> proper tuning of
> >> sport package
> >> is suspected.
> >> No signs of understeer (how is that possible on the car that employs
> >> the same 50/50 front/back power distribution is beyond me, proper
> >> polishing
> >> of torsen is suspected)

>
> >> Now I'm sure some pundits would point that the comparison is not fair
> >> and I should use Legacy GT
> >> or something like WRX. Well, there is NO comparison: the shifter
> >> action is silky smooth,
> >> there are no irritating creaks and rattles and the whole power band is
> >> usable since
> >> the 4 banger is barely audible at 5k rpm.

>
> >> You truly get what you pay for in this case. Amen.

>
> > I'd only say it's not fair because the price comparison when new is
> > huge--you truly do get what you pay for. If you were expecting sport


Ok, put it another way: if I had $20-25k I still would've got
an older audi than a new or slightly used WRX/LGT

Now with the recent forced soft offroading I might have to reconsider
though.

The upcoming winter will put all dots in I.

> > from the outback sport, it's not surprising that you were
> > disappointed. The outback sport is built more for offroad use than
> > sporting use. Kind of like the sport in SUV. Also, I don't think the
> > rattles and creaks are representative of a typical subaru.

>
> > The lack of understeer might also be a function of the suspension
> > settings. The Germans are willing to create a more neutral car, and


I somehow doubt it. All comparos of STI vs Evo
are quick to mention how unwilling STI is to rotate compared
to the tailhappy evo. And for me, personally, understeer is
a major fun killer.

> > since the audi is so nose heavy, they needed to bias the spring and
> > sway bar settings to a point closer to neutral to compensate.


The first thing I did on OBS was to ditch the 13mm rear for the 20mm
sway bar from STI.
That did not remove one bit of understeer.
Then went the rear springs (STI oem, black) - not a yota of understeer
is gone.

I guess it's the function of the center diff.

> > Although, if the experience of the two peoople that I know with Audis
> > is any indication, you will have more issues with it than the subie.
> > But if you hated the subie,a nd love the audi, you'll likely come out
> > happier in the end anyway.

>
> > Congratulations on your purchase and I hope you enjoy it.

>
> Audi's are cool cars...
>
> They really look good from underneath when they're on the lift, and unless
> the OP got an exceptional one, that's the view he'll be seeing a lot of
> the time.


Time will tell. I already had the clutch along with the adjusted part
replaced yesterday.
$550 for the parts, much less in labor as I;m not in the states.
I claimed the responsibility but the parts guy consoled me saying
there is no way I could have trashed the disk to the bare metal in one
soft off roading sitting pulling my rwd beater out of a grass covered
clay field.

To do subaru justice: neither obs nor legacy (both manuals) would've
spun the front wheels
with the rears sitting idly as my A4 did in the process.
If there is a 50:50 split in the normal case I'm not seeing it.

Anyhow, Subaru makes good enough cars for most people,
but they just don't suit me and don't mix well
with local luddites at the yearly technical car inspections spinning
the wheels
one axle at a time to check the brakes.

I guess the viscous coupling on anything south of STi would not get
thick enough
quick enough to get any damage to the center differential, but I just
don't want to
take any chances.

Since torsen is mechanical I wonder if it would fare any better though
than a viscous coupling diff
on a subaru with a stick.

I probably lied about the rear sway bar thickness: from the looks of
the car on a lift
the front looks about 32mm and the rear is S4 grade 20mm. (Mine has
sport package)
Ads
  #2  
Old July 6th 11, 03:08 PM posted to alt.autos.subaru,alt.autos.audi
1 Lucky Texan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default I finally found her

On Jul 6, 6:18*am, AD > wrote:
> On Jul 2, 6:23*am, Steampunk > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

ing
> there is no way I could have trashed the disk to the bare metal in one
> soft off roading sitting pulling my rwd beater out of a grass covered
> clay field.
>
> To do subaru justice: neither obs nor legacy (both manuals) would've
> spun the front wheels
> with the rears sitting idly as my A4 did in the process.
> If there is a 50:50 split in the normal case I'm not seeing it.



wondering if the trick of applying a little brake would have sent more
power to the other axle?


>
> Anyhow, Subaru makes good enough cars for most people,
> but they just don't suit me and don't mix well
> with local luddites at the yearly technical car inspections spinning
> the wheels
> one axle at a time to check the brakes.
>
> I guess the viscous coupling on anything south of STi would not get
> thick enough
> quick enough to get any damage to the center differential, but I just
> don't want to
> take any chances.
>
> Since torsen is mechanical I wonder if it would fare any better though
> than a viscous coupling diff
> on a subaru with a stick.


the center diff is viscous LOCKING.
I HAVE heard of some upgrade to the fluid to get it to lock more
quickly after slippage.

Does the OBS or the Audi have rear LSD? I know my WRX and my wife's
Outback do. I admit I don't softroad much though.


  #3  
Old July 7th 11, 08:01 AM posted to alt.autos.subaru,alt.autos.audi
AD[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 423
Default I finally found her

On Jul 6, 5:08*pm, 1 Lucky Texan > wrote:
> On Jul 6, 6:18*am, AD > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 2, 6:23*am, Steampunk > wrote:

>
> ing
> > there is no way I could have trashed the disk to the bare metal in one
> > soft off roading sitting pulling my rwd beater out of a grass covered
> > clay field.

>
> > To do subaru justice: neither obs nor legacy (both manuals) would've
> > spun the front wheels
> > with the rears sitting idly as my A4 did in the process.
> > If there is a 50:50 split in the normal case I'm not seeing it.

>
> wondering if the trick of applying a little brake would have sent more
> power to the other axle?
>


the electronic gizmos on A4 are supposed to do that for you with no
driver intervention.
I have to admit I turned off ESP at the first sign of wheel slippage
but, in retrospect,
probably would've been better off if I left it on

>
>
>
>
> > Anyhow, Subaru makes good enough cars for most people,
> > but they just don't suit me and don't mix well
> > with local luddites at the yearly technical car inspections spinning
> > the wheels
> > one axle at a time to check the brakes.

>
> > I guess the viscous coupling on anything south of STi would not get
> > thick enough
> > quick enough to get any damage to the center differential, but I just
> > don't want to
> > take any chances.

>
> > Since torsen is mechanical I wonder if it would fare any better though
> > than a viscous coupling diff
> > on a subaru with a stick.

>
> the center diff is viscous LOCKING.


the *******s at the inspections give the same single axle brake
testing
treatment to the subarus (according to their technician).

> *I HAVE heard of some upgrade to the fluid to get it to lock more
> quickly after slippage.
>
> Does the OBS or the Audi have rear LSD? I know my WRX and my wife's
> Outback do. I admit I don't softroad much though.


Turning one rear wheel while the car is on the lift in neutral does
not move
the opposite wheel (or the fronts).

I guess it's the same brake based unstuck assist that LSD in the late
WRXs and outbacks
was "replaced" with.

The only subaru in the whole lineup with the remaining LSD AFAIK is
STI
and the rear LSD is unlike in lesser WRXs is mechanical.

Still, LSD is a moot point when no power is transferred to the rear
axle.
  #4  
Old July 7th 11, 01:44 PM posted to alt.autos.subaru,alt.autos.audi
1 Lucky Texan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18
Default I finally found her

On Jul 7, 2:01*am, AD > wrote:
> On Jul 6, 5:08*pm, 1 Lucky Texan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 6, 6:18*am, AD > wrote:

>
> > > On Jul 2, 6:23*am, Steampunk > wrote:

>
> > ing
> > > there is no way I could have trashed the disk to the bare metal in one
> > > soft off roading sitting pulling my rwd beater out of a grass covered
> > > clay field.

>
> > > To do subaru justice: neither obs nor legacy (both manuals) would've
> > > spun the front wheels
> > > with the rears sitting idly as my A4 did in the process.
> > > If there is a 50:50 split in the normal case I'm not seeing it.

>
> > wondering if the trick of applying a little brake would have sent more
> > power to the other axle?

>
> the electronic gizmos on A4 are supposed to do that for you with no
> driver intervention.
> I have to admit I turned off ESP at the first sign of wheel slippage
> but, in retrospect,
> probably would've been better off if I left it on
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Anyhow, Subaru makes good enough cars for most people,
> > > but they just don't suit me and don't mix well
> > > with local luddites at the yearly technical car inspections spinning
> > > the wheels
> > > one axle at a time to check the brakes.

>
> > > I guess the viscous coupling on anything south of STi would not get
> > > thick enough
> > > quick enough to get any damage to the center differential, but I just
> > > don't want to
> > > take any chances.

>
> > > Since torsen is mechanical I wonder if it would fare any better though
> > > than a viscous coupling diff
> > > on a subaru with a stick.

>
> > the center diff is viscous LOCKING.

>
> the *******s at the inspections give the same single axle brake
> testing
> treatment to the subarus (according to their technician).
>
> > *I HAVE heard of some upgrade to the fluid to get it to lock more
> > quickly after slippage.

>
> > Does the OBS or the Audi have rear LSD? I know my WRX and my wife's
> > Outback do. I admit I don't softroad much though.

>
> Turning one rear wheel while the car is on the lift in neutral does
> not move
> the opposite wheel (or the fronts).
>
> I guess it's the same brake based unstuck assist that LSD in the late
> WRXs and outbacks
> was "replaced" with.
>
> The only subaru in the whole lineup with the remaining LSD AFAIK is
> STI
> and the rear LSD is unlike in lesser WRXs is mechanical.
>
> Still, LSD is a moot point when no power is transferred to the rear
> axle.


The system in my stickshift 06 WRX wagon is as (somewhat poorly)
described in the bottom section here;

http://www.awdwiki.com/en/viscous+coupling/

On it and my wife's 03 Outback, turning one rear wheel off the ground
turns the other side in the same direction - LSD.
However, she has a 4EAT autotran. and it has a wet clutchpack and
torque split is variable depending on control to a valve in the
transmission.

If the systems have changed or are offered with different gear in some
locations, that's a bad decision on Subaru's part I think.
 




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