Paging Michael Johnson

>
> Looks like quite a fun ride, but I have to wonder how durable it really
> is. I'd like to see that car in 6 months or so...

And I would like to see some milder stuff. Like a hopped up 3 valve. HINT!

Al

Big Al wrote:
>> Looks like quite a fun ride, but I have to wonder how durable it really
>> is. I'd like to see that car in 6 months or so...
>
> And I would like to see some milder stuff. Like a hopped up 3 valve. HINT!

Google is your friend.

Michael Johnson > wrote in
:

> Joe wrote:
>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Namehere wrote:
>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Do you have any links to dyno curves for the modded
>>>>>>>>>> Cobra/Lightning engines? Looking for HP and torque and
general
>>>>>>>>>> "under the curve" specs. Nothing too outrageous, just the
guy's
>>>>>>>>>> that change injectors and do easy mods.
>>>>>>>>> Which engines? The OHC ones, push rod and/or supercharged?
>>>>>>>> Sorry, the newere Cobra DOHC supercharged. You told me they
were
>>>>>>>> getting great numbers and living.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?p=1610065
>> #post1610065
>>>>>>> The most popular and easiest high hp mod for the blown Cobras
and
>>>>>>> Lightnings are the Kenne Bell twin screw blower kits. Here are
>>>>>>> some links and the numbers they show on the graphs are good and
>>>>>>> realistic:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lby/Shelby.htm
>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/SNAKEBITE.pdf
>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...03/cobra03.htm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should see what they are getting from the turbocharged 4.6L
>>>>>>> Cobra engines without even taking off the valve covers. You are
>>>>>>> 100% right. I should. Now where are they?
>>>>> If this doesn't do it for you nothing will. It is a turbo kit
that
>>>>> mounts in front of the stock Eaton blower on a stock Terminator
>>>>> engine. Here is an excerpt from the article:
>>>>>
>>>>> "The kit featured here is universal and can be used with a
>>>>> supercharger or without it-the difference will be in the
>>>>> turbocharger sizing to fit different applications. The piping and
>>>>> turbo mounting is universal in all systems and mod-motor
>>>>> applications. For those brave enough and in need of the excess,
>>>>> check out the turbo/ supercharger system. It will not disappoint
>>>>> your appetite for ridiculous power levels. We watched this setup
>>>>> throw out a certifiably insane 1,188 rwhp and an even more
>>>>> impressive 1,015 rwtq-through a stock engine including the factory
>>>>> cast-iron exhaust manifolds."
>>>>>
>>>>> If 1,188 RWHP and 1,015 rwtq isn't enough to prove the point then
>>>>> NOTHING will. Here's a link to the full article:
>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/6o28aq
>>>> gosh, I drive around town an typically use less than 150 HP, take
>>>> off sometimes using 320 HP, but 1,200 HP is totally undrivable
except
>>>> on a stright track.
>>>> Think of it in terms of the gas petal travel, 1/4 the way in is
>>>> 300HP, and the back wheels would be spinning out.
>>> They talk about the problems they had keeping the wheels from
spinning
>>> on the dyno drum. Driving that car on public streets isn't for the
>>> faint of heart or anyone with restless leg syndrome. The fact that
a
>>> stock Terminator engine can do several dyno pulls making well over
>>> 1,000 rwhp shows just how strong that engine was built and how much
>>> performance potential Ford left untapped with it. We may never see
>>> another one like it in our lifetimes.
>>
>> Looks like quite a fun ride, but I have to wonder how durable it
really
>> is. I'd like to see that car in 6 months or so...
>
> I'm impressed a stock engine can make several dyno runs at that power
> level and survive at all.

True, but pure logic begs questioning the reliability of such a setup.
As an engineer, I'm sure you know what I mean.

> I'm sure something will eventually break on
> it but that setup is a testament to the strength of that engine. It
is
> built like a brick **** house.

Granted, that motor is built extremely well. But there is a balance
between power levels and reliability. It would be interesting to see
that graph.

Joe wrote:
> Michael Johnson > wrote in
> :
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Michael Johnson > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Namehere wrote:
>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Do you have any links to dyno curves for the modded
>>>>>>>>>>> Cobra/Lightning engines? Looking for HP and torque and
> general
>>>>>>>>>>> "under the curve" specs. Nothing too outrageous, just the
> guy's
>>>>>>>>>>> that change injectors and do easy mods.
>>>>>>>>>> Which engines? The OHC ones, push rod and/or supercharged?
>>>>>>>>> Sorry, the newere Cobra DOHC supercharged. You told me they
> were
>>>>>>>>> getting great numbers and living.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php?p=1610065
>>> #post1610065
>>>>>>>> The most popular and easiest high hp mod for the blown Cobras
> and
>>>>>>>> Lightnings are the Kenne Bell twin screw blower kits. Here are
>>>>>>>> some links and the numbers they show on the graphs are good and
>>>>>>>> realistic:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lby/Shelby.htm
>>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/SNAKEBITE.pdf
>>>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...03/cobra03.htm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You should see what they are getting from the turbocharged 4.6L
>>>>>>>> Cobra engines without even taking off the valve covers. You are
>>>>>>>> 100% right. I should. Now where are they?
>>>>>> If this doesn't do it for you nothing will. It is a turbo kit
> that
>>>>>> mounts in front of the stock Eaton blower on a stock Terminator
>>>>>> engine. Here is an excerpt from the article:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The kit featured here is universal and can be used with a
>>>>>> supercharger or without it-the difference will be in the
>>>>>> turbocharger sizing to fit different applications. The piping and
>>>>>> turbo mounting is universal in all systems and mod-motor
>>>>>> applications. For those brave enough and in need of the excess,
>>>>>> check out the turbo/ supercharger system. It will not disappoint
>>>>>> your appetite for ridiculous power levels. We watched this setup
>>>>>> throw out a certifiably insane 1,188 rwhp and an even more
>>>>>> impressive 1,015 rwtq-through a stock engine including the factory
>>>>>> cast-iron exhaust manifolds."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If 1,188 RWHP and 1,015 rwtq isn't enough to prove the point then
>>>>>> NOTHING will. Here's a link to the full article:
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/6o28aq
>>>>> gosh, I drive around town an typically use less than 150 HP, take
>>>>> off sometimes using 320 HP, but 1,200 HP is totally undrivable
> except
>>>>> on a stright track.
>>>>> Think of it in terms of the gas petal travel, 1/4 the way in is
>>>>> 300HP, and the back wheels would be spinning out.
>>>> They talk about the problems they had keeping the wheels from
> spinning
>>>> on the dyno drum. Driving that car on public streets isn't for the
>>>> faint of heart or anyone with restless leg syndrome. The fact that
> a
>>>> stock Terminator engine can do several dyno pulls making well over
>>>> 1,000 rwhp shows just how strong that engine was built and how much
>>>> performance potential Ford left untapped with it. We may never see
>>>> another one like it in our lifetimes.
>>> Looks like quite a fun ride, but I have to wonder how durable it
> really
>>> is. I'd like to see that car in 6 months or so...
>> I'm impressed a stock engine can make several dyno runs at that power
>> level and survive at all.
>
> True, but pure logic begs questioning the reliability of such a setup.
> As an engineer, I'm sure you know what I mean.

I think that setup might last longer than expected. Other parts of the
drive train would like fail before the engine. Plus if the wheels spin
then much of the strain is off the engine and other parts. The truth
is, I don't think it is known just where the breaking point is for that
motor.

>> I'm sure something will eventually break on
>> it but that setup is a testament to the strength of that engine. It
> is
>> built like a brick **** house.
>
> Granted, that motor is built extremely well. But there is a balance
> between power levels and reliability. It would be interesting to see
> that graph.

I don't see that car serving as a daily driver. Besides, that much
power is unusable on the street so the engine would likely never be
stressed driving around town. As I said above, I don't think the graph
has been drawn yet for that engine. I can't think of another production
engine that can deliver the hp/litre it can with stock parts.

Googled and found some dyno sheets. Most are from cars running nitrous
setups or superchargers. Would be neat to see some "tweeked" stock 3 valve
sheets.

I'm at the drags a lot, most of the 4.6's I see can't get out of their own
way. I'd like to see some good running stock examples. Last Friday night
some guys I know took two Mustangs to the drags. One of them broke into the
15's, one time. 15.9, all other runs from both cars were in the 16's. Both
complained about traction. Our strip is very sticky. If you walk out there
your shoes stick to the track. Have to wonder of it's somehow the wrong
setup for street tires?? Something else, I have an 03 5 speed Mustang and an
02 Z28. The Z28 can put lots of HP down without squeaking the tires. The
Mustang can't. My 87 and 89 5.0's were the same. You had to play with the
throttle to keep them from going up in smoke. My Z has much more power and
you can open it wide with no problems. The Z has that long bar going to the
rear transmission mount to control axle wrap. That or something makes the
difference.

There is a Corvette club here that has outings at the strip. They are
pathetic. Most run in the 16's or high 15's. No way can I figure why. They
should run better than that in drive with an easy launch.

Off the subject. There is an automatic 96 GT convertible for sale here with
engine problems. Looks like a Premium, leather seats and so on. Guy wants
$1,000 for it. It's rough, looks like a bunch of people sat on the hood,
but?? So what would a decent 4.6 cost?

Al

Googled and found some dyno sheets. Most are from cars running nitrous
setups or superchargers. Would be neat to see some "tweeked" stock 3 valve
sheets.

I'm at the drags a lot, most of the 4.6's I see can't get out of their own
way. I'd like to see some good running stock examples. Last Friday night
some guys I know took two Mustangs to the drags. One of them broke into the
15's, one time. 15.9, all other runs from both cars were in the 16's. Both
complained about traction. Our strip is very sticky. If you walk out there
your shoes stick to the track. Have to wonder of it's somehow the wrong
setup for street tires?? Something else, I have an 03 5 speed Mustang and an
02 Z28. The Z28 can put lots of HP down without squeaking the tires. The
Mustang can't. My 87 and 89 5.0's were the same. You had to play with the
throttle to keep them from going up in smoke. My Z has much more power and
you can open it wide with no problems. The Z has that long bar going to the
rear transmission mount to control axle wrap. That or something makes the
difference.

There is a Corvette club here that has outings at the strip. They are
pathetic. Most run in the 16's or high 15's. No way can I figure why. They
should run better than that in drive with an easy launch.

Off the subject. There is an automatic 96 GT convertible for sale here with
engine problems. Looks like a Premium, leather seats and so on. Guy wants
$1,000 for it. It's rough, looks like a bunch of people sat on the hood,
but?? So what would a decent 4.6 cost?

Al

Dan wrote:
> On Jun 16, 8:42 pm, Michael Johnson > wrote:
>> Namehere wrote:
>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Do you have any links to dyno curves for the modded Cobra/Lightning
>>>>>>>>> engines? Looking for HP and torque and general "under the curve"
>>>>>>>>> specs. Nothing too outrageous, just the guy's that change injectors
>>>>>>>>> and do easy mods.
>>>>>>>> Which engines? The OHC ones, push rod and/or supercharged?
>>>>>>> Sorry, the newere Cobra DOHC supercharged. You told me they were
>>>>>>> getting great numbers and living.
>>>>>>> http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...65#post1610065
>>>>>> The most popular and easiest high hp mod for the blown Cobras and
>>>>>> Lightnings are the Kenne Bell twin screw blower kits. Here are some
>>>>>> links and the numbers they show on the graphs are good and realistic:
>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lby/Shelby.htm
>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/SNAKEBITE.pdf
>>>>>> http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...03/cobra03.htm
>>>>>> You should see what they are getting from the turbocharged 4.6L Cobra
>>>>>> engines without even taking off the valve covers. You are 100% right. I
>>>>>> should. Now where are they?
>>>> If this doesn't do it for you nothing will. It is a turbo kit that mounts
>>>> in front of the stock Eaton blower on a stock Terminator engine. Here is
>>>> an excerpt from the article:
>>>> "The kit featured here is universal and can be used with a supercharger or
>>>> without it-the difference will be in the turbocharger sizing to fit
>>>> different applications. The piping and turbo mounting is universal in all
>>>> systems and mod-motor applications. For those brave enough and in need of
>>>> the excess, check out the turbo/ supercharger system. It will not
>>>> disappoint your appetite for ridiculous power levels. We watched this
>>>> setup throw out a certifiably insane 1,188 rwhp and an even more
>>>> impressive 1,015 rwtq-through a stock engine including the factory
>>>> cast-iron exhaust manifolds."
>>>> If 1,188 RWHP and 1,015 rwtq isn't enough to prove the point then NOTHING
>>>> will. Here's a link to the full article: http://tinyurl.com/6o28aq
>>> gosh, I drive around town an typically use less than 150 HP, take off
>>> sometimes using 320 HP, but 1,200 HP is totally undrivable except on a
>>> stright track.
>>> Think of it in terms of the gas petal travel, 1/4 the way in is 300HP, and
>>> the back wheels would be spinning out.
>> They talk about the problems they had keeping the wheels from spinning
>> on the dyno drum. Driving that car on public streets isn't for the
>> faint of heart or anyone with restless leg syndrome. The fact that a
>> stock Terminator engine can do several dyno pulls making well over 1,000
>> rwhp shows just how strong that engine was built and how much
>> performance potential Ford left untapped with it. We may never see
>> another one like it in our lifetimes.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> The combo power adder cars made several pulls at least. However, there
> were several big power turbo SVT Cobras here in the high southwest. A
> few not only made literally dozens of dyno pulls each but they also
> each ran dozens of times down the quarter mile. These were cars
> putting down 700 to 1100 rwhp without correction. Most of those cars
> have lost their motors over the last five years but that was after
> truly severe abuse. At least one of the highest powered cars was still
> running as of several months ago, the last time I came into contact
> with them.
>
> I agree, Ford did good with this motor .

It is also a testament to the 4.6L engine, in general. Ford designed
the block of the 4.6L from the ground up to hand a ton of horsepower. A
garden variety Mustang GT engine block (iron) with the Terminator
pistons, rods and crank would easily handle 600-700 hp. I like the old
302s but the 4.6Ls will eat its lunch as far as strength is concerned.

On Jun 18, 11:29 am, "Big Al" > wrote:
> Googled and found some dyno sheets. Most are from cars running nitrous
> setups or superchargers. Would be neat to see some "tweeked" stock 3 valve
> sheets.
>
> I'm at the drags a lot, most of the 4.6's I see can't get out of their own
> way. I'd like to see some good running stock examples. Last Friday night
> some guys I know took two Mustangs to the drags. One of them broke into the
> 15's, one time. 15.9, all other runs from both cars were in the 16's. Both
> complained about traction. Our strip is very sticky. If you walk out there
> your shoes stick to the track. Have to wonder of it's somehow the wrong
> setup for street tires?? Something else, I have an 03 5 speed Mustang and an
> 02 Z28. The Z28 can put lots of HP down without squeaking the tires. The
> Mustang can't. My 87 and 89 5.0's were the same. You had to play with the
> throttle to keep them from going up in smoke. My Z has much more power and
> you can open it wide with no problems. The Z has that long bar going to the
> rear transmission mount to control axle wrap. That or something makes the
> difference.
>
> There is a Corvette club here that has outings at the strip. They are
> pathetic. Most run in the 16's or high 15's. No way can I figure why. They
> should run better than that in drive with an easy launch.
>
> Off the subject. There is an automatic 96 GT convertible for sale here with
> engine problems. Looks like a Premium, leather seats and so on. Guy wants
> $1,000 for it. It's rough, looks like a bunch of people sat on the hood,
> but?? So what would a decent 4.6 cost?
>
> Al

Sorry I can't answer your questions directly, but I was at a Fun Ford
Sunday at Knotts Berry Farm in Orange County in April and there was a
ton of the S-197 3-valve Stangs there. So there is some interest in
tweaking these cars. Many were sporting aftermarket blowers, and
there were also quite a few Shelby GT500s. So I would check if there
are any Fun Ford Sundays in your neighborhood and if so go check it
out.

Laurie S. was at this show too, and she mentioned that Jim Smart is
writing a book on the mod motors. Maybe she could give you a
connection to Jim Smart and he could give you a connection to some
answers.
Laurie S. was there too

One more idea would be the S-197 forums on Stangnet:
http://forums.stangnet.com/forumdisplay.php?f=115

HTH

180 Out

On Jun 16, 7:37*pm, Michael Johnson > wrote:
> Big Al wrote:
> > "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> m...
> >> Big Al wrote:
> >>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> >>>news:W_KdnQ7C_6kYKcvVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganews. com...
> >>>> Big Al wrote:
> >>>>> Do you have any links to dyno curves for the modded Cobra/Lightning
> >>>>> engines? Looking for HP and torque and general "under the curve" specs.
> >>>>> Nothing too outrageous, just the guy's that change injectors and do
> >>>>> easy mods.
> >>>> Which engines? *The OHC ones, push rod and/or supercharged?
> >>> Sorry, the newere Cobra DOHC supercharged. You told me they were getting
> >>> great numbers and living.
>
> >>>http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...65#post1610065
> >> The most popular and easiest high hp mod for the blown Cobras and
> >> Lightnings are the Kenne Bell twin screw blower kits. *Here are some links
> >> and the numbers they show on the graphs are good and realistic:
>
> >>http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lby/Shelby.htm
> >>http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/SNAKEBITE.pdf
> >>http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...03/cobra03.htm
>
> >> You should see what they are getting from the turbocharged 4.6L Cobra
> >> engines without even taking off the valve covers. *You are 100% right. I
> >> should. Now where are they?
>
> If this doesn't do it for you nothing will. *It is a turbo kit that
> mounts in front of the stock Eaton blower on a stock Terminator engine.
> * Here is an excerpt from the article:
>
> "The kit featured here is universal and can be used with a supercharger
> or without it-the difference will be in the turbocharger sizing to fit
> different applications. The piping and turbo mounting is universal in
> all systems and mod-motor applications. For those brave enough and in
> need of the excess, check out the turbo/ supercharger system. It will
> not disappoint your appetite for ridiculous power levels. We watched
> this setup throw out a certifiably insane 1,188 rwhp and an even more
> impressive 1,015 rwtq-through a stock engine including the factory
> cast-iron exhaust manifolds."
>
> If 1,188 RWHP and 1,015 rwtq isn't enough to prove the point then
> NOTHING will. *Here's a link to the full article: *http://tinyurl.com/6o28aq- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hellion's in my town (or close enough) ? I watched those guys work
on the test mules and watched a few of the dyno pulls; my buddy owns
the dynamometer. That is an awesome setup for sure .

Dan
P49Y83+

On Jun 16, 8:42*pm, Michael Johnson > wrote:
> Namehere wrote:
> > "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> m...
> >> Big Al wrote:
> >>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> >>>news:lfGdnbcbjaSDTcvVnZ2dnUVZ_ovinZ2d@giganews. com...
> >>>> Big Al wrote:
> >>>>> "Michael Johnson" > wrote in message
> >>>>>news:W_KdnQ7C_6kYKcvVnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@giganew s.com...
> >>>>>> Big Al wrote:
> >>>>>>> Do you have any links to dyno curves for the modded Cobra/Lightning
> >>>>>>> engines? Looking for HP and torque and general "under the curve"
> >>>>>>> specs. Nothing too outrageous, just the guy's that change injectors
> >>>>>>> and do easy mods.
> >>>>>> Which engines? *The OHC ones, push rod and/or supercharged?
> >>>>> Sorry, the newere Cobra DOHC supercharged. You told me they were
> >>>>> getting great numbers and living.
>
> >>>>>http://www.lxforums.com/board/showth...65#post1610065
> >>>> The most popular and easiest high hp mod for the blown Cobras and
> >>>> Lightnings are the Kenne Bell twin screw blower kits. *Here are some
> >>>> links and the numbers they show on the graphs are good and realistic:
>
> >>>>http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...lby/Shelby.htm
> >>>>http://www.kennebell.net/media/articles/SNAKEBITE.pdf
> >>>>http://www.kennebell.net/supercharge...03/cobra03.htm
>
> >>>> You should see what they are getting from the turbocharged 4.6L Cobra
> >>>> engines without even taking off the valve covers. *You are 100% right. I
> >>>> should. Now where are they?
> >> If this doesn't do it for you nothing will. *It is a turbo kit that mounts
> >> in front of the stock Eaton blower on a stock Terminator engine. Here is
> >> an excerpt from the article:
>
> >> "The kit featured here is universal and can be used with a supercharger or
> >> without it-the difference will be in the turbocharger sizing to fit
> >> different applications. The piping and turbo mounting is universal in all
> >> systems and mod-motor applications. For those brave enough and in need of
> >> the excess, check out the turbo/ supercharger system. It will not
> >> disappoint your appetite for ridiculous power levels. We watched this
> >> setup throw out a certifiably insane 1,188 rwhp and an even more
> >> impressive 1,015 rwtq-through a stock engine including the factory
> >> cast-iron exhaust manifolds."
>
> >> If 1,188 RWHP and 1,015 rwtq isn't enough to prove the point then NOTHING
> >> will. *Here's a link to the full article: *http://tinyurl.com/6o28aq
>
> > gosh, I drive around town an typically use less than 150 HP, *take off
> > sometimes using 320 HP, but 1,200 HP is totally undrivable except on a
> > stright track.
> > Think of it in terms of the gas petal travel, 1/4 the way in is *300HP, and
> > the back wheels would be spinning out.
>
> They talk about the problems they had keeping the wheels from spinning
> on the dyno drum. *Driving that car on public streets isn't for the
> faint of heart or anyone with restless leg syndrome. *The fact that a
> stock Terminator engine can do several dyno pulls making well over 1,000
> rwhp shows just how strong that engine was built and how much
> performance potential Ford left untapped with it. *We may never see
> another one like it in our lifetimes.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The combo power adder cars made several pulls at least. However, there
were several big power turbo SVT Cobras here in the high southwest. A
few not only made literally dozens of dyno pulls each but they also
each ran dozens of times down the quarter mile. These were cars
putting down 700 to 1100 rwhp without correction. Most of those cars
have lost their motors over the last five years but that was after
truly severe abuse. At least one of the highest powered cars was still
running as of several months ago, the last time I came into contact
with them.

I agree, Ford did good with this motor .

Dan
P49Y83+