"Grrrr" wheel bearing or engine mount problem??

Hi.
I have a 2001 Saturn SL1. 109k miles. 4 brand new tires (last
week). For the past 6months, something in front left of car makes a
"grrrrr" noise which only starts to be noticeable when going faster
than 30mph, and increases in volume, and pitch, with speed. I don't
think it's the engine or transmission, because I was on highway and
bumped into neutral and could rev the engine but the grrr sound was
still constant and only changes pitch with speed. Also changes pitch
momentarily if I hit a dip in the road. Even the 4 new tires I
installed make no difference in the grrr. Wheels and stearing wheel
doesn't really shake or anything abnormal. I've read about wheel
bearings potentially being such a cause. Or maybe, if pitch changes
when I hit a dip, could it be an engine mount problem? Any ideas?
Thanks
Theodore.

In article >, millinghill > wrote:
>Hi.
>I have a 2001 Saturn SL1. 109k miles. 4 brand new tires (last
>week). For the past 6months, something in front left of car makes a
>"grrrrr" noise which only starts to be noticeable when going faster
>than 30mph, and increases in volume, and pitch, with speed. I don't
>think it's the engine or transmission, because I was on highway and
>bumped into neutral and could rev the engine but the grrr sound was
>still constant and only changes pitch with speed. Also changes pitch
>momentarily if I hit a dip in the road. Even the 4 new tires I
>installed make no difference in the grrr. Wheels and stearing wheel
>doesn't really shake or anything abnormal. I've read about wheel
>bearings potentially being such a cause. Or maybe, if pitch changes
>when I hit a dip, could it be an engine mount problem? Any ideas?

If it were an engine mount problem, the noise would have changed when you
shifted into neutral and revved the engine. This is not engine-related.

Wheel bearings are a possible cause, although I'm more inclined to think CV
joints -- wheel bearing problems more commonly manifest as a whine, rather
than a growl, IME.

It could also be brakes -- if you apply the brakes lightly while keeping
enough pressure on the accelerator to maintain a constant speed, what happens
to the noise?

"Doug Miller" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> millinghill > wrote:
>>Hi.
>>I have a 2001 Saturn SL1. 109k miles. 4 brand new tires (last
>>week). For the past 6months, something in front left of car makes a
>>"grrrrr" noise which only starts to be noticeable when going faster
>>than 30mph, and increases in volume, and pitch, with speed. I don't
>>think it's the engine or transmission, because I was on highway and
>>bumped into neutral and could rev the engine but the grrr sound was
>>still constant and only changes pitch with speed. Also changes pitch
>>momentarily if I hit a dip in the road. Even the 4 new tires I
>>installed make no difference in the grrr. Wheels and stearing wheel
>>doesn't really shake or anything abnormal. I've read about wheel
>>bearings potentially being such a cause. Or maybe, if pitch changes
>>when I hit a dip, could it be an engine mount problem? Any ideas?
>
> If it were an engine mount problem, the noise would have changed when you
> shifted into neutral and revved the engine. This is not engine-related.
>
> Wheel bearings are a possible cause, although I'm more inclined to think
> CV
> joints -- wheel bearing problems more commonly manifest as a whine, rather
> than a growl, IME.
>
> It could also be brakes -- if you apply the brakes lightly while keeping
> enough pressure on the accelerator to maintain a constant speed, what
> happens
> to the noise?

+1 to above, but CV joint failure often causes clicking noise especially
when turning sharply at slow speed.
..
IMHE worn wheel bearing noise will vary (usually increase) when subjected to
side loading such as turning or changing direction. Often one direction
will be louder than the other. A series of (careful) slalom type manoeuvres
when on a straight level road (when safe to do so, wide dry road, no
traffic) will usually tell the story. In addition, jack up each wheel and
inspect for roughness, noise or most likely excessive side play at the top
and bottom of the wheel. Could also be rear wheel bearing as it is hard to
determine noise source from inside when driving? IMHE bad wheel bearings
will make noise for a long time without complete failure but YMMV and
failure could cause a serious accident.

Good luck, YMMV

millinghill wrote:
> Hi.
> I have a 2001 Saturn SL1. 109k miles. 4 brand new tires (last
> week). For the past 6months, something in front left of car makes a
> "grrrrr" noise which only starts to be noticeable when going faster
> than 30mph, and increases in volume, and pitch, with speed. I don't
> think it's the engine or transmission, because I was on highway and
> bumped into neutral and could rev the engine but the grrr sound was
> still constant and only changes pitch with speed. Also changes pitch
> momentarily if I hit a dip in the road. Even the 4 new tires I
> installed make no difference in the grrr. Wheels and stearing wheel
> doesn't really shake or anything abnormal. I've read about wheel
> bearings potentially being such a cause. Or maybe, if pitch changes
> when I hit a dip, could it be an engine mount problem? Any ideas?
> Thanks
> Theodore.

It's the wheel bearing. If it's the left front it will become slightly
louder when you turn sharply to the right and almost go away when you
turn to the left. (vice versa for right front) This is a very common
thing for Saturns. You can get it replaced at a wheel shop like Midas
or Les Schwab. Make sure they do a 4-wheel alignment after replacing it.

--
Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a

"David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
diainc...
snip
> It's the wheel bearing.
snip
> Make sure they do a 4-wheel alignment after replacing it.
>

WHY?
IMHO no alignment is required simply due to wheel bearing failure or
replacement.

Good luck, YMMV

Private wrote:
> "David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
> diainc...
> snip
>> It's the wheel bearing.
> snip
>> Make sure they do a 4-wheel alignment after replacing it.
>>
>
> WHY?
> IMHO no alignment is required simply due to wheel bearing failure or
> replacement.
>
> Good luck, YMMV
>
>
Replacing the front wheel bearing requires removal of suspension
components that must be aligned after they are reinstalled.

--
Posted with OS/2 Warp 4.52
and Sea Monkey 1.5a

"David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
...
> Private wrote:
>> "David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
>> diainc...
>> snip
>>> It's the wheel bearing.
>> snip
>>> Make sure they do a 4-wheel alignment after replacing it.
>>>
>>
>> WHY?
>> IMHO no alignment is required simply due to wheel bearing failure or
>> replacement.
>>
>> Good luck, YMMV
>>
>>
> Replacing the front wheel bearing requires removal of suspension
> components that must be aligned after they are reinstalled.
>

With respect, I am fully qualified and have replaced several Saturn S series
wheel bearings. While some suspension disassembly is required in order to
remove the steering knuckle/hub assembly, there is no need to disturb the
tie rod or lower control arm/sway bar or spring/shock/strut adjustments, and
the ball joint and tie rod connections are both tapered connections which
IMHO can be reassembled without disturbing alignment. The connection of the
hub to the spring strut is a plain bolted connection without any provision
for adjustment at the point of disconnection.

IMHO, this job does not require realignment unless its need is indicated by
other factors. Realignment would do no harm but advisability probably
depends more on the capabilities of the repairer.

This job does require equipment (press & press tooling, maybe welding
equipment for old bearing removal) that is usually beyond that of the
average DIY mechanic, but if this equipment is available (or can be
fabricated) then it is certainly doable by any experienced mechanical
person. If the job is done by the average repair shop then they are more
likely to also want to replace lower control arm/ball joints, (which may be
advisable as economic preventative maintenance depending on the age of the
vehicle) and any shop doing any volume of this work is likely to have
alignment equipment that they will want to make use of (and charge for).

If the OP is considering a DIY repair I recommend reading my earlier reports
of this job.

https://groups.google.com/groups/sea...&lr=&as_sitese
arch=&as_qdr=&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=2011&as_ maxd=1&as_ma
xm=1&as_maxy=2011&as_ugroup=rec.au
tos.makers.saturn&as_usubject=wheel+bearing&as_uau thors=private&safe=off

job report is here
https://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.sa
turn/browse_thread/thread/dbd50d8ba022a28f/c3980cf51a2fabaf?lnk=st&q=group:rec.autos.makers.s a
turn+authorrivate&rnum=6&hl=en#c3980cf51a2fabaf

Just my .02, Good luck, YMMV

Private wrote:
> "David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Private wrote:
>>> "David T. Johnson" > wrote in message
>>> diainc...
>>> snip
>>>> It's the wheel bearing.
>>> snip
>>>> Make sure they do a 4-wheel alignment after replacing it.
>>>>
>>> WHY?
>>> IMHO no alignment is required simply due to wheel bearing failure or
>>> replacement.
>>>
>>> Good luck, YMMV
>>>
>>>
>> Replacing the front wheel bearing requires removal of suspension
>> components that must be aligned after they are reinstalled.
>>
>
> With respect, I am fully qualified and have replaced several Saturn S series
> wheel bearings. While some suspension disassembly is required in order to
> remove the steering knuckle/hub assembly, there is no need to disturb the
> tie rod or lower control arm/sway bar or spring/shock/strut adjustments, and
> the ball joint and tie rod connections are both tapered connections which
> IMHO can be reassembled without disturbing alignment. The connection of the
> hub to the spring strut is a plain bolted connection without any provision
> for adjustment at the point of disconnection.
>
> IMHO, this job does not require realignment unless its need is indicated by
> other factors. Realignment would do no harm but advisability probably
> depends more on the capabilities of the repairer.
>
> This job does require equipment (press & press tooling, maybe welding
> equipment for old bearing removal) that is usually beyond that of the
> average DIY mechanic, but if this equipment is available (or can be
> fabricated) then it is certainly doable by any experienced mechanical
> person. If the job is done by the average repair shop then they are more
> likely to also want to replace lower control arm/ball joints, (which may be
> advisable as economic preventative maintenance depending on the age of the
> vehicle) and any shop doing any volume of this work is likely to have
> alignment equipment that they will want to make use of (and charge for).
>
> If the OP is considering a DIY repair I recommend reading my earlier reports
> of this job.
>
> https://groups.google.com/groups/sea...&lr=&as_sitese
> arch=&as_qdr=&as_mind=1&as_minm=1&as_miny=2011&as_ maxd=1&as_ma
> xm=1&as_maxy=2011&as_ugroup=rec.au
> tos.makers.saturn&as_usubject=wheel+bearing&as_uau thors=private&safe=off
>
> job report is here
> https://groups.google.com/group/rec.autos.makers.sa
> turn/browse_thread/thread/dbd50d8ba022a28f/c3980cf51a2fabaf?lnk=st&q=group:rec.autos.makers.s a
> turn+authorrivate&rnum=6&hl=en#c3980cf51a2fabaf
>
> Just my .02, Good luck, YMMV
>

Had the same noise on my Vue...It was the front wheel bearings on mine.
I know someone said that they whine not growl, but mine sounded like
I mounted snow tires, so I'd classify that as a grrr..

BTW, I guess there is a significant difference in changing the Vue than
a SL. On the Vue, I can change a wheel bearing in 15-20 minutes, as
it's an all in one Hub. You buy the hub with bearings installed, so all
you have to do is remove tire, remove caliper and hang up out of way,
remove free floating rotor, remove spindle nut, slide off old hub with
crappy bearings (well, may need some "friendly persuasion" to loosen up)
and reverse to put it back together, using the right torque on the
spindle nut....Sound like it's more complicated on the SL....

On Mar 4, 7:30*pm, "Private" > wrote:
> "Doug Miller" > wrote in message
>
> > If it were an engine mount problem, the noise would have changed when you
> > shifted into neutral and revved the engine. This is not engine-related.
>
> > Wheel bearings are a possible cause, although I'm more inclined to think
> > CV
> > joints -- wheel bearing problems more commonly manifest as a whine, rather
> > than a growl, IME.
>
> > It could also be brakes -- if you apply the brakes lightly while keeping
> > enough pressure on the accelerator to maintain a constant speed, what
> > happens
> > to the noise?
>
> +1 to above, but CV joint failure often causes clicking noise especially
> when turning sharply at slow speed.
> .
> IMHE worn wheel bearing noise will vary (usually increase) when subjected to
> side loading such as turning or changing direction. *Often one direction
> will be louder than the other. *A series of (careful) slalom type manoeuvres
> when on a straight level road (when safe to do so, wide dry road, no
> traffic) will usually tell the story. *In addition, jack up each wheel and
> inspect for roughness, noise or most likely excessive side play at the top
> and bottom of the wheel. *Could also be rear wheel bearing as it is hard to
> determine noise source from inside when driving? *IMHE bad wheel bearings
> will make noise for a long time without complete failure but YMMV and
> failure could cause a serious accident.
>
> Good luck, YMMV- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi, ok so I did the slalom thing going 30mph. The "grrrr" from the
front fluctuated between "rah" and a "ruh" every time I turned the
wheel in the opposite direction. Went back to grrrr immediately
thereafter as I continued straight. I'm just hoping for some
diagnosis advice and help, as doing the work myself is beyond my
capabilities and (having recently moved) I'm not sure who's the most
trustworthy mechanic in my new neighborhood. I'd like to go into the
shop showing some intelligence.
Is the consensus still wheel bearings? All opinions appreciated.
Regards,
Theodore.

On Mar 4, 7:30*pm, "Private" > wrote:
> "Doug Miller" > wrote in message
>
> > If it were an engine mount problem, the noise would have changed when you
> > shifted into neutral and revved the engine. This is not engine-related.
>
> > Wheel bearings are a possible cause, although I'm more inclined to think
> > CV
> > joints -- wheel bearing problems more commonly manifest as a whine, rather
> > than a growl, IME.
>
> > It could also be brakes -- if you apply the brakes lightly while keeping
> > enough pressure on the accelerator to maintain a constant speed, what
> > happens
> > to the noise?
>
> +1 to above, but CV joint failure often causes clicking noise especially
> when turning sharply at slow speed.
> .
> IMHE worn wheel bearing noise will vary (usually increase) when subjected to
> side loading such as turning or changing direction. *Often one direction
> will be louder than the other. *A series of (careful) slalom type manoeuvres
> when on a straight level road (when safe to do so, wide dry road, no
> traffic) will usually tell the story. *In addition, jack up each wheel and
> inspect for roughness, noise or most likely excessive side play at the top
> and bottom of the wheel. *Could also be rear wheel bearing as it is hard to
> determine noise source from inside when driving? *IMHE bad wheel bearings
> will make noise for a long time without complete failure but YMMV and
> failure could cause a serious accident.
>
> Good luck, YMMV- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi, ok so I did the slalom thing going 30mph. The "grrrr" from the
front fluctuated between "rah" and a "ruh" every time I turned the
wheel in the opposite direction. Went back to grrrr immediately
thereafter as I continued straight. Noise is not affected by
applying
brakes at all, so pretty sure brakes aren't the cause. I'm just
hoping
for some diagnosis advice and help, as doing the work myself is beyond
my
capabilities and (having recently moved) I'm not sure who's the most
trustworthy mechanic in my new neighborhood. I'd like to go into the
shop showing some intelligence.
Is the consensus still wheel bearings? All opinions appreciated.
Regards,
Theodore.