Question about red light camera traffic ticket

I got a ticket in the mail the other day. It was from a red light camera.
My father-in-law was driving our van and crossed the stop line but didn't
actually run the red light. The speed shown on the ticket was 13 MPH which
is obviously too slow a speed to be running a red light.

Anyway, I planned on going to court and arguing our case. Even if it's
obvious to the judge that the van didn't run the red light, will he still
make me pay the fine because the van crossed the white line?

This is in Georgia BTW.

where was it from? the one i've seen had 3 photos so it
was clear the car went thru the intersection?

On Aug 16, 5:05 pm, Deuteros > wrote:
> I got a ticket in the mail the other day. It was from a red light camera.
> My father-in-law was driving our van and crossed the stop line but didn't
> actually run the red light. The speed shown on the ticket was 13 MPH which
> is obviously too slow a speed to be running a red light.
>
> Anyway, I planned on going to court and arguing our case. Even if it's
> obvious to the judge that the van didn't run the red light, will he still
> make me pay the fine because the van crossed the white line?

Very probably, even if you don't mention that 13 mph is too slow to
run a red light.

13 mph (19 fps) is too close to too fast to cross the stop line and
claim your FIL didn't either run the light (which he is actually
pictured doing, legally speaking), or end up stopped out in the right-
of-way of cross traffic.
-----

- gpsman

gpsman wrote:
> On Aug 16, 5:05 pm, Deuteros > wrote:
>
>>I got a ticket in the mail the other day. It was from a red light camera.
>>My father-in-law was driving our van and crossed the stop line but didn't
>>actually run the red light. The speed shown on the ticket was 13 MPH which
>>is obviously too slow a speed to be running a red light.
>>
>>Anyway, I planned on going to court and arguing our case. Even if it's
>>obvious to the judge that the van didn't run the red light, will he still
>>make me pay the fine because the van crossed the white line?
>
>
> Very probably, even if you don't mention that 13 mph is too slow to
> run a red light.
>
> 13 mph (19 fps) is too close to too fast to cross the stop line and
> claim your FIL didn't either run the light (which he is actually
> pictured doing, legally speaking), or end up stopped out in the right-
> of-way of cross traffic.

You are correct, but how can you be certain he actually was traveling at
13 MPH? Without THREE pictures, you just don't know. Any valid ticket
should have three pics to establish a chain of events. I don't
particularly trust radar guns, and I trust them even less when they are
connected to those infernal cameras.

To the OP: you might want to check the yellow timing of the intersection
in question if it is convenient to you. A yellow interval too short for
the speed of the road is a) a valid defense against a ticket and b) a
plausible explanation for a driver stopping past the stop line.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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On Aug 16, 8:16 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> gpsman wrote:
> > 13 mph (19 fps) is too close to too fast to cross the stop line and
> > claim your FIL didn't either run the light (which he is actually
> > pictured doing, legally speaking), or end up stopped out in the right-
> > of-way of cross traffic.
>
> You are correct, but how can you be certain he actually was traveling at
> 13 MPH? Without THREE pictures, you just don't know.

Civil law= preponderance of evidence. And even with 3 pics (the state
probably has them, they just include one with the ticket) there's not
going to be 3 speed detectors.

> Any valid ticket
> should have three pics to establish a chain of events.

Seems not unreasonable.

> I don't
> particularly trust radar guns, and I trust them even less when they are
> connected to those infernal cameras.

Me neither. But we've got those speed-detection signs both directions
on I-71 at Lytle Tunnel and they go out of whack all the time, but
they always seem to default to display lower, way lower, velocity.
-----

- gpsman

gpsman wrote:
> On Aug 16, 8:16 pm, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>
>>gpsman wrote:
>>
>>>13 mph (19 fps) is too close to too fast to cross the stop line and
>>>claim your FIL didn't either run the light (which he is actually
>>>pictured doing, legally speaking), or end up stopped out in the right-
>>>of-way of cross traffic.
>>
>>You are correct, but how can you be certain he actually was traveling at
>>13 MPH? Without THREE pictures, you just don't know.
>
>
> Civil law= preponderance of evidence. And even with 3 pics (the state
> probably has them, they just include one with the ticket) there's not
> going to be 3 speed detectors.
>
>
>>Any valid ticket
>>should have three pics to establish a chain of events.
>
>
> Seems not unreasonable.
>
>
>>I don't
>>particularly trust radar guns, and I trust them even less when they are
>>connected to those infernal cameras.
>
>
> Me neither. But we've got those speed-detection signs both directions
> on I-71 at Lytle Tunnel and they go out of whack all the time, but
> they always seem to default to display lower, way lower, velocity.
> -----
>
> - gpsman
>

Coincidentally enough, I-71 (but near Parma, not that far south) was
where I got the second most ludicrous speeding ticket I've collected in
my life, and I've only gotten a few. This one was for something like 6
MPH over (don't remember exactly,) at appx. 1AM on a dead empty highway.
I saw the cop from far off; to this day I don't know if my speedo was
wrong or his radar gun was, but if I were a betting man my money would
be on the radar gun (German speedos are usually pretty darn accurate,
and read only slightly fast, not slow.) I would have fought it but I
moved to Virginia before my court date came up. I think he wrote me the
ticket because some knucklehead had stolen the year sticker off my
license plate, and I hadn't noticed it until literally earlier that day.
Made me get out of the car and look at it, and you could see that the
corner of the sticker was still there, and I had all my papers with me,
but still... guy had the audacity to give me the safety lecture too,
never mind that I was driving an '84 GTI with brand new suspension,
H&Rs/Konis (or was it the Bilsteins back then? I don't remember) and
Yoko A509s... sheesh. But of course it was safe for him to catch up to
me from a standstill and pull me over...

Of course, I should have expected it... Linndale is only a couple miles
away. Apparently the Linndale cops had been giving lessons. (that was
back in the day when Linndale was one of the most notorious speed traps
in the country.)

The MOST ludicrous one was the one in MD where the cop just flat out
lied, but that's another story, that I've told several times...

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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"asdfddddd" > wrote in news:db5xi.2903
:

> where was it from? the one i've seen had 3 photos so it
> was clear the car went thru the intersection?

The citation has three photos. The last one shows the van past the white line
and sitting on the crosswalk. The picture is in color and you can see that
the brake lights are on.

On Aug 17, 6:35 am, Deuteros > wrote:
> "asdfddddd" > wrote in news:db5xi.2903
> :
>
> > where was it from? the one i've seen had 3 photos so it
> > was clear the car went thru the intersection?
>
> The citation has three photos. The last one shows the van past the white line
> and sitting on the crosswalk. The picture is in color and you can see that
> the brake lights are on.

So it is clear then from the photo that your father-in-law plainly ran
the red light. You have no shot.

tell them to either dismiss the ticket or you will BOMB THE COURTHOUSE

DEATH TO THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMMENT

KILL A COP TODAY, KILL THEM ALL

DEATH TO PIGS

PROBLEM SOLVED

"SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim" > wrote in message
...
>
> tell them to either dismiss the ticket or you will BOMB THE COURTHOUSE
>
> DEATH TO THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMMENT
>
> KILL A COP TODAY, KILL THEM ALL
>
> DEATH TO PIGS
>
> PROBLEM SOLVED
>
>

http://www.intriguing.com/mp/_sounds/hg/looney.wav



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