Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

Ask the SAE, if you really want to know, since they are contracted with the
US DOT to assign the WMI to every new vehicle produced in the US.

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe is
> wrong. There are similar variation in GM and Chrysler vehicles as well.
> Tundra's a made in Indiana have 5, Titans made just over the state line
> have a 1. Ford Trucks made in Kentucky have a 1. Lincoln pickups made
> on the same assemble line have a 4.
>
> mike
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message
> news
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> No so, the requirement to exhibit a '1' as the first number of the VIN
>>> and
>>> be made in the US and is to have at least a 70% US content.
>
>> http://auto.howstuffworks.com/vin.htm
>> "The first digit identifies the nation of origin. If the car was
>> assembled
>> from parts produced in different countries, this digit reflects the
>> nation
>> where the car was assembled. Some larger nations are split into regions.
>> For
>> example, cars built in Japan are assigned a J in the first digit. But
>> cars
>> made in the U.S. can have a 1, 4 or 5, depending on the region of its
>> assembly. "
>
>

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe is
> wrong.

A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.

There are similar variation in GM and Chrysler vehicles as well.
> Tundra's a made in Indiana have 5, Titans made just over the state line
> have a 1.

So the Titans are made with over 70% US content????

Ford Trucks made in Kentucky have a 1. Lincoln pickups made on the
> same assemble line have a 4.
>

You've posted this before but provide no evidence to back this up. Even if
so, the Ford Trucks and Lincolns made on the same assembly line, preseumably
with the same basic parts mix, actually proves you wrong...

The WMI assigned by the SAE to the Lincoln pickups were assigned much later
than the Ford trucks since Lincoln only recently started making pickups.

Give it up.

Nicholas Anthony wrote:

> Working harder isn't the answer.

How about working smarter?

What we are seeing is that the rest of the world is learning to do what
we have been doing, and we are not learning fast enough to do something
nobody else does yet.

When the folks in those turd-world countries can do anything for less
money than we are willing to do it for, of course that's where the
production goes. Government can not stop that process, anymore than
water will flow uphill, or than you can get more energy out of a gallon
of corn than out of a gallon of gasoline.

The worst politicians will try to tell you different, because that's
what you want to hear, but it just ain't so.


Jack

"Jack" > wrote in message
t...
> What we are seeing is that the rest of the world is learning to do what
> we have been doing, and we are not learning fast enough to do something
> nobody else does yet.
>
> When the folks in those turd-world countries can do anything for less
> money than we are willing to do it for, of course that's where the
> production goes. Government can not stop that process, anymore than
> water will flow uphill, or than you can get more energy out of a gallon
> of corn than out of a gallon of gasoline.
>
> The worst politicians will try to tell you different, because that's
> what you want to hear, but it just ain't so.
>
>
> Jack

Jack
There is some manufacturing that has to be protected. The California port
lock out by the port owners should have been a wake up call, but it wasn't.
The reason the feds intervened was military parts were running low. The
first ships unloaded where those with Military parts, and those with
perishable goods. If I can shut your military parts supply off, as has been
demonstrated in every single war the last 100 years, I can stop you cold.
Asia can shut our military down any time they want. They can do the same
thing to a god part of our transportation infrastructure as well. Nothing
works to well these days with out those fancy circuit boards.

Whitelightning

You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic
it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three
numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. Do a search as I did
when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles
assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference is
US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1' indicates
more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less than 40%.



mike



"Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
> ...
>> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe
>> is wrong.
>
> A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.
>

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic
> it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three
> numbers, rather than one as do all other countries.

The fact that the US is so big and has so many auto, bus, truck, off-road
vehicle, construction vehicle, etc., manufacturers is the reason.

You're correct. I am free to believe whatever I want. And I went and did my
research so that I would have an informed opinion. And my informed opinion
is now based on facts, not on the conjecture of someone else who doesn't
back up his statements.

> Do a search as I did when I became curios as to why there is more than
> one number for vehicles assemble in the US. You will discover as I have
> that it the difference is US content, which is more than the totality of
> the parts. '1' indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than
> 40% and '5' less than 40%.

I did do the search. What I found is that not one site mentions differences
in content as a reason. I did find that nearly idencial vehicles produced
on the same production line with nearly identical percent N.A. content have
different VINs, because they are sold as different brands (Ford, Mercury,
Lincoln, Mazda).

If what you suggest is correct, then Ford would have a three groups of
VINs, differing only in the first digit. However, as you can see on the
second page, this is incorrect.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/maintenan...fs/VIN2006.pdf

Lincoln SUVs are all assigned a VIN beginning with '5'. Why? That is what
the organization that assigns VINs decided. It has nothing to do with
content.

I also read the legal code that says the US Dept. of Transportation has to
have VINs. It mentioned WMIs, but nothing about content. If your conjecture
were correct, I would think it would be in the legal code.

I went ahead and did my homework. My homework showed no support of your
conjecture. And plenty of evidence against it.

Please post the URL that shows I am incorrect.

In other words, please put up or shut up. Did you notice not one person has
said that your are correct?

You'll also notice that I admit when I am wrong. The figures I got for Dec.
2006 auto sales where incorrect. According to Ward's Automotive, Toyota
outsold Ford. But the figures were wrong. I admitted that. Mistakes happen.

So let's see whether you should admit you were incorrect or I was. There is
no shame in making a mistake. Show us the evidence you so often talk about,
but don't show us.

Jeff

>
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe
>>> is wrong.
>>
>> A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.
>>
>
>

Post a link and I will believe you. Otherwise you are wrong.

There is a reason why the US has three numbers. We have more assembly plants
than anyone else.

"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic
> it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three
> numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. Do a search as I did
> when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles
> assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference
> is US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1'
> indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less
> than 40%.
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe
>>> is wrong.
>>
>> A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.
>>
>
>

Whitelightning wrote:

> There is some manufacturing that has to be protected.

[...]

> Asia can shut our military down any time they want. They can do the same
> thing to a god part of our transportation infrastructure as well. Nothing
> works to well these days with out those fancy circuit boards.

We are on the same side then, if you agree it's less about protecting
jobs than protecting capacity. The jobs will come along with it and
that's not a bad thing. But how do you do it at an affordable price with
a minimum of corruption and waste? By facilitating R&D and investment,
and not by creating a government-financed and -protected enclave for
inefficiency, e.g., Ethanol.

I think we can stop feeding Asia as quickly as you say they can stop our
transportation.


Jack

Mike Hunter wrote:
> You will discover as I have that it the difference is
> US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1' indicates
> more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less than 40%.

You keep saying this but you have yet to provide an authoritative cite
to substantiate your claim, while your detractors have provided multiple
cites as refutations.


Jack

So post the links to the published information that might substantiate your
position, Mike!

No mater how many times you repeat your position without collaborate
information from some OTHER source, none of us is going to believe this as
yet unsubstantiated scheme.




"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> You are free to believe whatever you chose, but if you used a little logic
> it should become apparent that there must be a reason the US has three
> numbers, rather than one as do all other countries. Do a search as I did
> when I became curios as to why there is more than one number for vehicles
> assemble in the US. You will discover as I have that it the difference
> is US content, which is more than the totality of the parts. '1'
> indicates more than 70%, '4' less than 70% but more than 40% and '5' less
> than 40%.
>
>
> mike
>
>
>
> "Matt Macchiarolo" > wrote in message
> . ..
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> That may be your opinion but a little logic will prove what you believe
>>> is wrong.
>>
>> A little research will prove what you believe is stupid.
>>
>
>