Ford chief seeks help from Toyota

Actually only GM, Ford, Honda and Nissan sell vehicles that are made in
America with an 'American' content of over 70% that exhibit a '1' as the
first number of the VIN. The others only assemble some of their vehicles
in America with an 'American' content of less than 70% and display '4' and
'5' in the VIN. Those with a '5,' as the first number of the VIN like the
Tundra, have less than 40% 'American' content.



mike


"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:zp8mh.2667$kB3.2296@trnddc08...
>
>
> You mean like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and Mercedes, all of which make
> cars in the US?
>

Mike,

I got your point and am glad you made it. When the argument was made I
thought they were saying Toyota outsold for the year. Very confusing how
this statement was made at the end of the year to begin with.

Nick




"Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
...
> Really, when did I ever dispute the fact Toyota is gaining market share
> and both GM and Ford are losing in the ever growing US market? Who wins
> the football game, the team with the most points in a quarter or the one
> with the most points at the end of the game? For the 2006 model year it
> is GM, Ford, Toyota, Chrysler. Therefore as I stated GM and Ford, outsell
> any import. in the US, silly you.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
> "My Name Is Nobody" > wrote in message
> news:txKlh.4706$Pr4.335@trndny06...
>> AS of today? Or over the last year? Which is it Mike? You can't keep
>> changing your statements, You are arguing two totally different
>> positions.
>>
>> No matter how you twist it Ford and GM's market share are declining and
>> Toyota's is steadily rising. You changing your argument while trying to
>> dispute that makes you look silly.
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> That may be your opinion but the fact is as of today, in the US both GM
>>> and Ford, outsell any import. That may change but for now that is
>>> the fact, whether you agree or not
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>>> news:5Jtlh.884$Fs2.627@trnddc05...
>>>>
>>>> "Mike Hunter" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> That may be your opinion but the fact is in the US both GM and Ford
>>>>> outsell any import. I was buying imports based on what people were
>>>>> saying, as well. I soon learned that the several Lexus I bought were
>>>>> no better than the domestics I had been buying, they just cost me more
>>>>> to buy. I now buy domestics again.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> mike
>>>>
>>>> I think you are using the wrong tense. The sales of the domestic makes
>>>> went down last year. The sales of Toyotas went up. Last month and this
>>>> month, Toyota sold more vehicles in the US than Ford. Next year, it is
>>>> expected that Toyota will sell more cars in the US than Ford.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

"Mac Cool" > wrote in message
...
> Mellowed:
>
>> It appears that you really wanted the Lariat model.
>
> Would that be the Lariat Ranger, Taurus, Mustang, T-bird... oh, you only
> read half my post.
>
> No I understand, you're a Ford fan and want to protect the image but Ford
> has to reach a point where they stop blowing sunshine and take some of the
> criticism as valid otherwise they will disappear like many other car
> makers before them.
>
> --
> Mac Cool

I dont think America would allow that to happen. Ford is an Icon that shows
each and every one of us that we can make it if we work hard and try.

Nick

"Nicholas Anthony" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Mac Cool" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Mellowed:
>>
>>> It appears that you really wanted the Lariat model.
>>
>> Would that be the Lariat Ranger, Taurus, Mustang, T-bird... oh, you only
>> read half my post.
>>
>> No I understand, you're a Ford fan and want to protect the image but Ford
>> has to reach a point where they stop blowing sunshine and take some of
>> the
>> criticism as valid otherwise they will disappear like many other car
>> makers before them.
>>
>> --
>> Mac Cool
>
> I dont think America would allow that to happen. Ford is an Icon that
> shows each and every one of us that we can make it if we work hard and
> try.

I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and
Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the
bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that
Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I
don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference is
that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the US-built cars
have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be called "Made in
America," however, according to FTC standards).

Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to
mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after selling
their PC division to a Chinese company.

> Nick
>

"Jeff" > wrote in message
news:zpZlh.8387$tc5.79@trnddc01...

> I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and
> Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the
> bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that
> Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I
> don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference
> is that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the US-built
> cars have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be called
> "Made in America," however, according to FTC standards).
>
> Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to
> mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after
> selling their PC division to a Chinese company.

IMO big difference here. First off there were many other American Airline
industries. Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone
providing transportation. At one time Ford was helping build Tanks and other
vehicles for the Military. If we lose that capability totally who would we
trust an ally to make it for us? Might as well expect them to fight for us
too, yah right. I see Ford as a greatly undervalued stock as it is also a
pick for one of next years great investments. Comparing Chrysler without
being able to make a point for either one of us is pretty silly, I was young
too. I do remember Lee Iacocca made a promise to pay back the government
and he did just so with plenty of profits for the company as well when he
retired. Which reminds me. Chrysler has been under Daimler now and they are
doing poorly as well. You would think that they would employ the same
principles that makes one great to their new acquisition. I forget the
standard they set to call a vehicle "Made in America." I just find it hard
to believe that as you say "no" US car has enough US parts to be called
"Made in America." I bet Bob Hope is rolling around in his grave, sigh.
Whats wrong with this country anyway? No more proud to be American in the
media. We allow immigrants to sneak in illegally and others to economically
pick us apart with no safety net for the American worker. I love our country
and just want to say, God Bless America!!!!!!!

Nick

P.S. Lee Iacocca for President! of Ford that is.

"Nicholas Anthony" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> news:zpZlh.8387$tc5.79@trnddc01...
>
>> I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and
>> Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the
>> bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that
>> Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I
>> don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference
>> is that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the
>> US-built cars have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be
>> called "Made in America," however, according to FTC standards).
>>
>> Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to
>> mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after
>> selling their PC division to a Chinese company.
>
> IMO big difference here. First off there were many other American Airline
> industries.

You mean like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and Mercedes, all of which make cars
in the US?

> Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone providing
> transportation.

Providing transportation provides jobs.

> At one time Ford was helping build Tanks and other vehicles for the
> Military.

And at one time, the airlines were moving soldiers around and move mail
around.

> If we lose that capability totally who would we trust an ally to make it
> for us?

Gee, I don't know, the people who already build tanks. Who made planes
during the war? IBM.

> Might as well expect them to fight for us too, yah right. I see Ford as a
> greatly undervalued stock as it is also a pick for one of next years great
> investments.

Then buy it.

> Comparing Chrysler without being able to make a point for either one of us
> is pretty silly, I was young too. I do remember Lee Iacocca made a
> promise to pay back the government and he did just so with plenty of
> profits for the company as well when he retired. Which reminds me.
> Chrysler has been under Daimler now and they are doing poorly as well. You
> would think that they would employ the same principles that makes one
> great to their new acquisition. I forget the standard they set to call a
> vehicle "Made in America." I just find it hard to believe that as you say
> "no" US car has enough US parts to be called "Made in America."

According to the FTC, it means a product advertised as Made in USA be "all
or virtually all" made in the U.S. In other words, Made in the USA means
built in the USA of components all made in the USA.

A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the US, like
in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from outside the US, and
everything else is from inside the US, you've lost the right to say, "Made
in the USA."

No car meets this standard.

Here are some examples of "Made in the US" claims that did not make it:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/01/musasweep6.htm

> I bet Bob Hope is rolling around in his grave, sigh.

Why?

> Whats wrong with this country anyway? No more proud to be American in the
> media. We allow immigrants to sneak in illegally and others to
> economically pick us apart with no safety net for the American worker. I
> love our country and just want to say, God Bless America!!!!!!!

What is great about this country is that this country is part of the world
and the world economy.

Jeff

> Nick
>
> P.S. Lee Iacocca for President! of Ford that is.
>

Jeff wrote:
> A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the
> US, like in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from
> outside the US, and everything else is from inside the US, you've
> lost the right to say, "Made in the USA."

Car makers do not make this claim. They only have to state the
percentage of parts that are of US or Canada origin and
where the engine and transmission came from.

If you are going to post this info from the FTC site, you should
at least read all of what it says. What you are writing applies
to those things other than textiles and autos. Different products
have different labeling requirements. Some are voluntary and
some are mandatory.

"Mark Jones" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Jeff wrote:
>> A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the
>> US, like in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from
>> outside the US, and everything else is from inside the US, you've
>> lost the right to say, "Made in the USA."
>
> Car makers do not make this claim. They only have to state the
> percentage of parts that are of US or Canada origin and
> where the engine and transmission came from.

I know car makers do not claim "Made in America." That is because they can't
according to FTC rules.

> If you are going to post this info from the FTC site, you should
> at least read all of what it says. What you are writing applies
> to those things other than textiles and autos. Different products
> have different labeling requirements. Some are voluntary and
> some are mandatory.

You're mixing apples and oranges. One requirement is the requirement that
car makers state percent of American content and the other where the engine
and transmission came from.

If any manufacturer wants to claim that an item is "Made in the US," all or
virtually all of the parts have to be made in the US.

One is a reporting requirement for all cars. Another is a requirement that
specifies what "Made in the USA" means to use that or similar labeling.

The FTC has this to say about this: "American Automobile Labeling Act -
Requires that each automobile manufactured on or after October 1, 1994, for
sale in the U.S. bear a label disclosing where the car was assembled, the
percentage of equipment that originated in the U.S. and Canada, and the
country of origin of the engine and transmission. Any representation that a
car marketer makes that is required by the AALA is exempt from the
Commission's policy. When a company makes claims in advertising or
promotional materials that go beyond the AALA requirements, it will be held
to the Commission's standard. For more information, call the Consumer
Programs Division of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
(202-366-0846)."
Source: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/madeusa.pdf
Jeff

On Mon, 01 Jan 2007 13:55:43 GMT, "Jeff" > wrote:

>
>"Nicholas Anthony" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> news:zpZlh.8387$tc5.79@trnddc01...
>>
>>> I don't see America doing anything special to help Ford or GM. Pan Am and
>>> Eastern were icons too. Unless Ford can turn around fast, I see the
>>> bankruptcy court being involved in Ford's fate. Plus, the problems that
>>> Chrysler had in the 80s were differnet than what Ford has now, I think (I
>>> don't recall what they were - I was young back then). Another difference
>>> is that Toyota builds about 1/2 their cars in the US. Most of the
>>> US-built cars have mostly US parts (no US car has enough US content to be
>>> called "Made in America," however, according to FTC standards).
>>>
>>> Think about other American icons that have slipped recently. IBM comes to
>>> mind. They invented the IBM-compatible PC, but don't make any after
>>> selling their PC division to a Chinese company.
>>
>> IMO big difference here. First off there were many other American Airline
>> industries.
>
>You mean like Toyota, Honda, Nissan, VW and Mercedes, all of which make cars
>in the US?
>
>> Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone providing
>> transportation.
>
>Providing transportation provides jobs.
>
>> At one time Ford was helping build Tanks and other vehicles for the
>> Military.
>
>And at one time, the airlines were moving soldiers around and move mail
>around.
>
>> If we lose that capability totally who would we trust an ally to make it
>> for us?
>
>Gee, I don't know, the people who already build tanks. Who made planes
>during the war? IBM.
Actually IBM made rifles during the war. Sounds funny till you
understand the tooling machines they already had making parts
for cash registers and scales.
>
>> Might as well expect them to fight for us too, yah right. I see Ford as a
>> greatly undervalued stock as it is also a pick for one of next years great
>> investments.
>
>Then buy it.
>
>> Comparing Chrysler without being able to make a point for either one of us
>> is pretty silly, I was young too. I do remember Lee Iacocca made a
>> promise to pay back the government and he did just so with plenty of
>> profits for the company as well when he retired. Which reminds me.
>> Chrysler has been under Daimler now and they are doing poorly as well. You
>> would think that they would employ the same principles that makes one
>> great to their new acquisition. I forget the standard they set to call a
>> vehicle "Made in America." I just find it hard to believe that as you say
>> "no" US car has enough US parts to be called "Made in America."
>
>According to the FTC, it means a product advertised as Made in USA be "all
>or virtually all" made in the U.S. In other words, Made in the USA means
>built in the USA of components all made in the USA.
>
>A lot of the components in cars are made the car makers outside the US, like
>in Canada, Mexico or Asia. If the electronics come from outside the US, and
>everything else is from inside the US, you've lost the right to say, "Made
>in the USA."
>
>No car meets this standard.
>
>Here are some examples of "Made in the US" claims that did not make it:
>
>http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1999/01/musasweep6.htm
>
>> I bet Bob Hope is rolling around in his grave, sigh.
>
>Why?
>
>> Whats wrong with this country anyway? No more proud to be American in the
>> media. We allow immigrants to sneak in illegally and others to
>> economically pick us apart with no safety net for the American worker. I
>> love our country and just want to say, God Bless America!!!!!!!
>
>What is great about this country is that this country is part of the world
>and the world economy.
>
>Jeff
>
>> Nick
>>
>> P.S. Lee Iacocca for President! of Ford that is.
>>
>
>

Nicholas Anthony wrote:

> ...there were many other American Airline
> industries.

"Industries"?

Companies, yes. And many fewer now than there were then. There are about
to be even fewer as the US Airline industry continues its consolidation
into three major companies, just as the auto industry did years ago. The
US Government created the environment for consolidation by deregulation
of the airlines in the '70's. And if we don't keep a close eye on the
*******s in D.C., they will let foreigners buy our airlines as they are
buying our auto companies.


> Next we are talking about manufacturing not just someone
> providing transportation.

"...[S]omeone providing transportation." Now that's funny! I shudder to
think you might also put the railroads and shipping in that same
category of insignificance.

Everything in the US economy is related in some way -- in this modern
era, everything in the world economy is related. Wages will naturally
seek a common level. So you better learn to do a job few others can do
if you want to gain an income few others enjoy. Yes, the dominance of
the US is coming to an end, but that is inevitable.

The answer is to become more competitive than we have been. In other
words, get off your lazy asses, Americans, and work for what you want.
Or we all go down together.


Jack