2006 AC Check engine light (help with dealer)

I have a 2000 A6 (4.2) with almost 90k miles (I purchased certified
pre-owned at around 70k). For the entire time I've had the car there's
been a problem with the check engine light coming on. I've had it in
the shop three times and I know the previous owner took it in two or
three times. They'll do some work designed to fix it, but the light
always comes back on (once, it came back on as I drove out of the
dealer's parking lot...).

I'm now in a fix because a) I need to re-register the car and with the
check engine light on I believe it will automatically fail the
emissions test; and b) the warranty ran out (2 weeks ago - ugh) and so
further speculative repairs are on my dime. So basically I have to get
it fixed or the car is worthless, but I fear the fixes will be a money
pit.

Do I have any case that Audi should cover the repair costs even
post-warranty, given how many times it's been in the shop to fix the
same problem? Any advice appreciated. Thanks!

Andrew

Sorry about the typo in the subject line; I meant to write A6, not AC.
It's just the basic check engine light coming on, nothing to do with
the AC.

wrote:
> I have a 2000 A6 (4.2) with almost 90k miles (I purchased certified
> pre-owned at around 70k). For the entire time I've had the car there's
> been a problem with the check engine light coming on. I've had it in
> the shop three times and I know the previous owner took it in two or
> three times. They'll do some work designed to fix it, but the light
> always comes back on (once, it came back on as I drove out of the
> dealer's parking lot...).
>
> I'm now in a fix because a) I need to re-register the car and with the
> check engine light on I believe it will automatically fail the
> emissions test; and b) the warranty ran out (2 weeks ago - ugh) and so
> further speculative repairs are on my dime. So basically I have to get
> it fixed or the car is worthless, but I fear the fixes will be a money
> pit.
>
> Do I have any case that Audi should cover the repair costs even
> post-warranty, given how many times it's been in the shop to fix the
> same problem? Any advice appreciated. Thanks!


Frankly, I think you're stuck. How did you not find out about this
on-going problem until AFTER you bought the car? That'd've been a
deal-breaker for me.

But now that you've kept it for 20k miles, I think your *legal*
remedies are few. I know of some shady tricks you could use to pass
inspection, but that's no substitute for actually fixing what's wrong
with the car to begin with.

E.P.

P.S. No, I won't share the shady tricks.

I don't know this for a fact, but it's my understanding that if a problem
appears while the car is under warranty Audi is obliged to fix it - no
matter how long it takes. If the dealer disagrees take it to Audi. If Audi
tries to weasel out of it contact your state's AG. What does a warranty
mean if the dealer can just keep "trying" to fix a problem (i.e. going
through the motions) until the warranty expires?

Bob

> wrote in message
ps.com...
>I have a 2000 A6 (4.2) with almost 90k miles (I purchased certified
> pre-owned at around 70k). For the entire time I've had the car there's
> been a problem with the check engine light coming on. I've had it in
> the shop three times and I know the previous owner took it in two or
> three times. They'll do some work designed to fix it, but the light
> always comes back on (once, it came back on as I drove out of the
> dealer's parking lot...).
>
> I'm now in a fix because a) I need to re-register the car and with the
> check engine light on I believe it will automatically fail the
> emissions test; and b) the warranty ran out (2 weeks ago - ugh) and so
> further speculative repairs are on my dime. So basically I have to get
> it fixed or the car is worthless, but I fear the fixes will be a money
> pit.
>
> Do I have any case that Audi should cover the repair costs even
> post-warranty, given how many times it's been in the shop to fix the
> same problem? Any advice appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Andrew
>

In article om>,
" > wrote:

> I have a 2000 A6 (4.2) with almost 90k miles (I purchased certified
> pre-owned at around 70k). For the entire time I've had the car there's
> been a problem with the check engine light coming on. I've had it in
> the shop three times and I know the previous owner took it in two or
> three times. They'll do some work designed to fix it, but the light
> always comes back on (once, it came back on as I drove out of the
> dealer's parking lot...).
>
> I'm now in a fix because a) I need to re-register the car and with the
> check engine light on I believe it will automatically fail the
> emissions test; and b) the warranty ran out (2 weeks ago - ugh) and so
> further speculative repairs are on my dime. So basically I have to get
> it fixed or the car is worthless, but I fear the fixes will be a money
> pit.
>
> Do I have any case that Audi should cover the repair costs even
> post-warranty, given how many times it's been in the shop to fix the
> same problem? Any advice appreciated. Thanks!
>
> Andrew

It's probably still under warranty because it was never fixed. If the
previous owner had the same problem repaired under the factory warranty
then it's definitely covered.

I talked to my dealer about this yesterday. Their claim is that since a
number of things can cause the check engine light to come on, it's a
new problem rather than an ongoing problem that was never fixed. That's
a bit hard to believe, but I wasn't in the mood to fight it and paid
the $300 bill. I'm only hoping the fix will stay fixed for a while so I
can trade it in. I don't mind minor problems when it's under warranty,
but out of warranty things get really expensive.

Example: A small plastic gear was missing from the top of the headlight
mechanism, which is used to 'steer' the light. As a result, it was
mis-pointed and wouldn't pass inspection. So you'd replace the 5-cent
gear, right? Nope. Audi says you have to replace the entire headlight
structure at a cost of $1300. Between this problem and the check engine
light, I'm pretty much done. A great car but the poor reliabiliity and
cost of repairs make things a real problem.

Thanks for the help; much appreciated.

Andrew



Kevin McMurtrie wrote:
> In article om>,
> " > wrote:
>
> > I have a 2000 A6 (4.2) with almost 90k miles (I purchased certified
> > pre-owned at around 70k). For the entire time I've had the car there's
> > been a problem with the check engine light coming on. I've had it in
> > the shop three times and I know the previous owner took it in two or
> > three times. They'll do some work designed to fix it, but the light
> > always comes back on (once, it came back on as I drove out of the
> > dealer's parking lot...).
> >
> > I'm now in a fix because a) I need to re-register the car and with the
> > check engine light on I believe it will automatically fail the
> > emissions test; and b) the warranty ran out (2 weeks ago - ugh) and so
> > further speculative repairs are on my dime. So basically I have to get
> > it fixed or the car is worthless, but I fear the fixes will be a money
> > pit.
> >
> > Do I have any case that Audi should cover the repair costs even
> > post-warranty, given how many times it's been in the shop to fix the
> > same problem? Any advice appreciated. Thanks!
> >
> > Andrew
>
> It's probably still under warranty because it was never fixed. If the
> previous owner had the same problem repaired under the factory warranty
> then it's definitely covered.

wrote:
> A great car but the poor reliabiliity and
> cost of repairs make things a real problem.
>

What reliability? The car went back and forth OK, right?

I can see the CEL as a hassle, and I wouldn't like it either. But
there's some problem that needs fixing there, no doubt.

If you think the cost of repairs are high for Audi, then you have no
idea what car repair costs these days.

Oh, and you can get that headlamp assembly used for MUCH MUCH less than
that. And they are incredibly easy to DIY install.

E.P.

"Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> wrote:
>> A great car but the poor reliabiliity and
>> cost of repairs make things a real problem.
>>
>
> What reliability? The car went back and forth OK, right?
>
> I can see the CEL as a hassle, and I wouldn't like it either. But
> there's some problem that needs fixing there, no doubt.
>
> If you think the cost of repairs are high for Audi, then you have no
> idea what car repair costs these days.
>
> Oh, and you can get that headlamp assembly used for MUCH MUCH less than
> that. And they are incredibly easy to DIY install.
>
> E.P.

This response is meant to be a joke, right?

On the CEL problem, check the service records for each visit to see if they
list a specific numerical code that they read (and the computer logged) that
caused the CEL. If the same code recurs each time, then you have a good
argument that they original problem was never fixed. I've had them try this
trick with me on a clutch problem a few years ago-- I had a problem right
before warranty expiration that recurred right after. First they replaced
the cylinder at no charge. The second time it was "You need anew clutch,
$1000." I said ("No thanks, put the car back together, I will come and pick
it up." 15 minutes later they called and said "Oh, its the clutch slave
cylinder, we'll cover that under warranty."

One way to prevent this is to tell them not to do any work (other than
diagnosis) and then get their story before you authorize the repair (and
possibly a big bill).

And if the dealer is non-responsive, take your complaint to Audi
corporate--there will be a procedure in your owner's manual. You may get
satisfaction from Audi of America (or Audi of whichever country you are in).
I got a heater core replaced no charge on a VW after 10 years by this
procedure (previous year's model had a recall for my failure). It was a
$1500 repair they covered (as they should, given VW's 20 years of ongoing
heater core failures).

Also, did you pay with a credit card? You could also dispute the charge
with your card issuer, and take a run at the dealer that way too.

On the headlamp assembly, a DIY install is probably beyond many Audi owners,
esp. when most require that you drop the bumper to get at the headlamp
assembly.

The OP is right, Audis (and VWs) have some great attributes, but their
reliability is not up to even the worst US models and far behind the
Japanese. And the dealer service network is spotty-- sometimes good, most
times poor. I'm on my fourth VW/Audi, and would not recommend one to
someone who is not capable of complex service and repair on their own, and
even with my tools and capabilities I always have a good independent
mechanic I can fall back on when the work is beyond my capability.

And I would never rely upon a VW/Audi as my only source of automotive
transportation. I also own a Ford Escape, which has had only two minor
component failures (one out of warranty) in almost 90,000 miles of driving.

Keep on Plonkin' wrote:
> "Ed Pirrero" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> >
> > wrote:
> >> A great car but the poor reliabiliity and
> >> cost of repairs make things a real problem.
> >>
> >
> > What reliability? The car went back and forth OK, right?
> >
> > I can see the CEL as a hassle, and I wouldn't like it either. But
> > there's some problem that needs fixing there, no doubt.
> >
> > If you think the cost of repairs are high for Audi, then you have no
> > idea what car repair costs these days.
> >
> > Oh, and you can get that headlamp assembly used for MUCH MUCH less than
> > that. And they are incredibly easy to DIY install.
> >
> > E.P.
>
> This response is meant to be a joke, right?

No.

> On the CEL problem, check the service records for each visit to see if they
> list a specific numerical code that they read (and the computer logged) that
> caused the CEL. If the same code recurs each time, then you have a good
> argument that they original problem was never fixed.

Yes, but the OP didn't mention anything about this. If it's throwing
the same code over and over, then there's a problem that needs to be
fixed. (I think I said that.)

But whether or not the deal has to honor the warranty - they can say
no. And so can Audi NA. That's why when you buy a used car, you have
to be extraordinarily careful.

A lawyer might ultimately be required for this problem.

> One way to prevent this is to tell them not to do any work (other than
> diagnosis) and then get their story before you authorize the repair (and
> possibly a big bill).

And this isn't only for Audi. Works for all makes.

> And if the dealer is non-responsive, take your complaint to Audi
> corporate--there will be a procedure in your owner's manual. You may get
> satisfaction from Audi of America (or Audi of whichever country you are in).

Seems unlikely. Audi NA ain't that hot.

>
> On the headlamp assembly, a DIY install is probably beyond many Audi owners,
> esp. when most require that you drop the bumper to get at the headlamp
> assembly.

Says who? *Most* do *not* require dropping the bumper. I can do my
1995 S6 headlights in about 15 minutes with a #2 Phillips screwdriver.
No other tools required, and certainly no bumper drop!

Unless you have the Bentley open in front of you, you have no idea.

> The OP is right, Audis (and VWs) have some great attributes, but their
> reliability is not up to even the worst US models and far behind the
> Japanese.

Now you're just entering into fantasy. How is it, do you think, that
I've owned a million miles worth of Audis, and not had the reliability
hassles I had with the American and Japanese cars I owned? I have 500k
miles of Audis currently in the stable, and they all run great, and
keep on going, even after some pretty severe use.

> And the dealer service network is spotty-- sometimes good, most
> times poor.

Here's where we agree 100%.

> I'm on my fourth VW/Audi, and would not recommend one to
> someone who is not capable of complex service and repair on their own, and
> even with my tools and capabilities I always have a good independent
> mechanic I can fall back on when the work is beyond my capability.

Either I have had very good luck, or you are exaggerating.

> And I would never rely upon a VW/Audi as my only source of automotive
> transportation. I also own a Ford Escape, which has had only two minor
> component failures (one out of warranty) in almost 90,000 miles of driving.

I consider a 90k Audi barely broken in. I have two well over 200k, and
they are both daily drivers. Audis are all we have, and we have been
stranded ONCE. Fuel pump went out at 200k miles. I got no problem
with a 200k fuel pump. And I have heard stories about fuel pump issues
in Ford/GM cars that require the gas tank to be removed to replace a
$500 pump. Not even the Bosch 044 Motorsport pump is that expensive.
(Used on 400+HP modded turbo I5 Audis.)

My American cars used to crap out on a regular basis, and the one
Accord that I had was such a junker I didn't trust it to roll down the
driveway under gravity power.

E.P.

On 14 Dec 2006 10:59:16 -0800, "Ed Pirrero" >
wrote:
>I consider a 90k Audi barely broken in. I have two well over 200k, and
>they are both daily drivers. Audis are all we have, and we have been
>stranded ONCE. Fuel pump went out at 200k miles. I got no problem
>with a 200k fuel pump. And I have heard stories about fuel pump issues
>in Ford/GM cars that require the gas tank to be removed to replace a
>$500 pump. Not even the Bosch 044 Motorsport pump is that expensive.
>(Used on 400+HP modded turbo I5 Audis.)

Ed, I'm very happy to see this: I'm running a 98.5 A4Q 2.8 machine
with 104k miles, and it feels really good still. I plan to replace
all the struts next year when I replace the tires (I'm seeing some
tire slap), and I see no reason not to keep driving this baby. I'm
still on the original clutch! So, thanks: I plan to break 200K miles
with this car, if I can.