Europe Loves The Mustang

"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:43 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:40 GMT, the guvnor
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:46:29 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>See China's domination of world trade.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has
>>>>>>>been the world's only superpower.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The unique position of the United States (at least in terms of
>>>>>>>military force)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>See America not even being able to win the Vietnam war.
>>>>>
>>>>>Let me know when you have any hard facts to support your contention
>>>>>that China is a hyperpower.
>>>>
>>>>"Within 20 years, the Chinese economy will probably be larger than
>>>>that of the United States. Already China's geopolitical influence has
>>>>grown along with its economic might."
>>>
>>> " Within 20 years....". I didn't ask for an opinion piece I asked
>>> for facts to support your contention that China is a Hyperpower.
>>>
>>>>"Moreover, the Chinese central bank is financing the massive US trade
>>>>deficit by $1 billion a day. Without those loans, US interest rates
>>>>would spike upward. Interest rates on mortgages would rise, hitting
>>>>housing sales, and raising costs for millions of homeowners."
>>>>
>>>>""This is a huge deal," says Clyde Prestowitz, president of the
>>>>Economic Strategy Institute in Washington. "We are on life-support
>>>>from China's central bank.""
>>>>
>>>>"The US will have to adjust to deal with another major power," says
>>>>Mr. Prestowitz. "So far we are in a kind of denial."
>>>>
>>>>"Last Friday, China and the European Union reached a friendly
>>>>agreement curtailing certain Chinese textile exports. Chinese
>>>>negotiator Bo Xilai indicated China's preference for such a negotiated
>>>>deal, rather than the US unilateral caps on China's textile exports.
>>>>He reportedly cited a Chinese saying: "If you respect me by an inch,
>>>>I'll respect you by a foot.""
>>>>
>>>>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0616/p16s01-cogn.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Lets say.....oh...tomorrow, the United States decides to blockade all
>>> ships arriving and leaving China and the middle east except those
>>> outbound caring goods or oil to the United States.
>>>
>>> What are you euro's or China going to do to stop us?
>>
>>
>>Do NOT underestimate China's military, nor their resolve.
>>
>>Joel Jacobs
>>Chief Petty Officer
>>USNavy, Retired
>
> Well Chief you tell me how the Chinese have any force projection of
> power outside of a land war in Asia. At the height of their power,
> the fUSSR didn't want to take on the United States in a strategic
> military battle. What makes you think the Chinese can do it with a
> fraction of the power?

Better do a wee bit more research before you shoot your fingers off on the
keyboard.

Do an online search, nothing fancy, just check out the ICBM status, nuke
warhead status, submarines, surface navy, and airplanes..... there's other
stuff, but that'll do.

"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:02:00 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:50:31 GMT, the guvnor
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:53:52 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lets say.....oh...tomorrow, the United States decides to blockade all
>>>>>ships arriving and leaving China and the middle east except those
>>>>>outbound caring goods or oil to the United States.
>>>>>
>>>>>What are you euro's or China going to do to stop us?
>>>>
>>>>The same as the ragtag resistance fighters do to your hapless troops
>>>>in Iraq?
>>>
>>> Doesn't answer my question Fat****.
>>>
>>>>>And how long do you think ( in minutes ) before your economy
>>>>>collapses?
>>>>
>>>>Note how the Chinese sponsor your economy.
>>>
>>> Another non-answer, Fat****.
>>
>>China holds more than 30% of our T-Bills. This is growing to be a larger
>>and
>>larger problem daily.
>
> Is your point that the Chinese are going to throw T-Bills at our
> ships?

Are you limited to flippant answers, or are you really so naive as to not
understand the significance of China owning so much of our debt?

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:31:43 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
wrote:

>
>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:43 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:40 GMT, the guvnor
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:46:29 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>See China's domination of world trade.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has
>>>>>>>>been the world's only superpower.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The unique position of the United States (at least in terms of
>>>>>>>>military force)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>See America not even being able to win the Vietnam war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Let me know when you have any hard facts to support your contention
>>>>>>that China is a hyperpower.
>>>>>
>>>>>"Within 20 years, the Chinese economy will probably be larger than
>>>>>that of the United States. Already China's geopolitical influence has
>>>>>grown along with its economic might."
>>>>
>>>> " Within 20 years....". I didn't ask for an opinion piece I asked
>>>> for facts to support your contention that China is a Hyperpower.
>>>>
>>>>>"Moreover, the Chinese central bank is financing the massive US trade
>>>>>deficit by $1 billion a day. Without those loans, US interest rates
>>>>>would spike upward. Interest rates on mortgages would rise, hitting
>>>>>housing sales, and raising costs for millions of homeowners."
>>>>>
>>>>>""This is a huge deal," says Clyde Prestowitz, president of the
>>>>>Economic Strategy Institute in Washington. "We are on life-support
>>>>>from China's central bank.""
>>>>>
>>>>>"The US will have to adjust to deal with another major power," says
>>>>>Mr. Prestowitz. "So far we are in a kind of denial."
>>>>>
>>>>>"Last Friday, China and the European Union reached a friendly
>>>>>agreement curtailing certain Chinese textile exports. Chinese
>>>>>negotiator Bo Xilai indicated China's preference for such a negotiated
>>>>>deal, rather than the US unilateral caps on China's textile exports.
>>>>>He reportedly cited a Chinese saying: "If you respect me by an inch,
>>>>>I'll respect you by a foot.""
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0616/p16s01-cogn.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lets say.....oh...tomorrow, the United States decides to blockade all
>>>> ships arriving and leaving China and the middle east except those
>>>> outbound caring goods or oil to the United States.
>>>>
>>>> What are you euro's or China going to do to stop us?
>>>
>>>
>>>Do NOT underestimate China's military, nor their resolve.
>>>
>>>Joel Jacobs
>>>Chief Petty Officer
>>>USNavy, Retired
>>
>> Well Chief you tell me how the Chinese have any force projection of
>> power outside of a land war in Asia. At the height of their power,
>> the fUSSR didn't want to take on the United States in a strategic
>> military battle. What makes you think the Chinese can do it with a
>> fraction of the power?
>
>Better do a wee bit more research before you shoot your fingers off on the
>keyboard.
>
>Do an online search, nothing fancy, just check out the ICBM status, nuke
>warhead status, submarines, surface navy, and airplanes..... there's other
>stuff, but that'll do.

I don't have to use google, Chief. China has NO Submarine status at
all. They have ONE submarine missile boat called the Xia. This
submarine has never been more than a harbor queen. In it's entire
existence it has deployed ONCE to test fire a submarine launch
missile. The rest of it's existence its sat in it's home port at
Jianggezhuang. They have 18 ICBM's with questionable capability of
reaching the US considering their long history of design flight
failures. Their surface navy is a joke. Nothing better than a
destroyer sized force with cruise missiles. Two years ago they sent
their first surface ship on it's first around the world cruise.
ONCE. Our attack submarines could wipe out their entire navy
probably before they left Chinese territorial waters. They have
little ASW capabilities to track our subs. Bombers and planes? None
that can reach the US. The Chinese have no force projection outside
of their territorial region. And China will never be a Hyperpower
without a global force projection of power.

To recap:

1. China has no credible ballistic submarines. The one they have is
not operational.
2. China has 18 ICBM's with questionable capabilities.
3. China has a surface Navy with no aircraft carriers other than the
one they bought from Russia and they've done nothing with it. They
don't even have planes to go on the carrier. They have destroyers and
frigates with old technology.
4. China has no strategic nuclear bomber force. NONE.


You may be retired from the USN but you're an idiot. What were you a
Yeoman or a Boatswain's Mate? You don't know anything about nuclear
deterrent and it sounds like you really should stick to worrying about
setting your Sea and Anchor detail and leaving the details of global
strategic defense to the experts.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:33:37 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
wrote:

>
>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:02:00 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 19:50:31 GMT, the guvnor
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 14:53:52 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Lets say.....oh...tomorrow, the United States decides to blockade all
>>>>>>ships arriving and leaving China and the middle east except those
>>>>>>outbound caring goods or oil to the United States.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What are you euro's or China going to do to stop us?
>>>>>
>>>>>The same as the ragtag resistance fighters do to your hapless troops
>>>>>in Iraq?
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't answer my question Fat****.
>>>>
>>>>>>And how long do you think ( in minutes ) before your economy
>>>>>>collapses?
>>>>>
>>>>>Note how the Chinese sponsor your economy.
>>>>
>>>> Another non-answer, Fat****.
>>>
>>>China holds more than 30% of our T-Bills. This is growing to be a larger
>>>and larger problem daily.
>>
>> Is your point that the Chinese are going to throw T-Bills at our
>> ships?
>
>Are you limited to flippant answers, or are you really so naive as to not
>understand the significance of China owning so much of our debt?

I posed a military question, a NAVAL question. Obviously you're
incapable of responding to the question, Chief Petty Officer.

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:55:37 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
wrote:

>To recap:
>
>I...
>...don't know anything

Whatever Whiskers, whatever

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:55:16 -0700, Woo > wrote:

>
>
>Kenshlock de la Fehrêtte wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 23:55:37 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>To recap:
>>>
>>>I...
>>>...don't know anything
>>
>>
>> Whatever Whiskers, whatever
>
>Now the crusty old **** thinks she knows more about the Chinese military
>than someone from someone who worked in the military. Next, she'll argue
>against Steven Hawking over elementary mathematics.

She will just as soon as she googles Hawking to see who he is...

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:32:06 -0400, ZombyWoof >
wrote:

>Anyhow if you wait around long enough the Japanese will rip-off any
>innovation you can come up with anyway, improve it and sell it
>cheaper.

It's what they've done with any junk that the americans have ever come
up with, that's for sure.

"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 21:31:43 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:43 -0500, "Joel Jacobs" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Sarah Czepiel" > wrote in message
m...
>>>>> On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 17:00:40 GMT, the guvnor
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 12:46:29 -0400, Sarah Czepiel >
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>See China's domination of world trade.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has
>>>>>>>>>been the world's only superpower.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The unique position of the United States (at least in terms of
>>>>>>>>>military force)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>See America not even being able to win the Vietnam war.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Let me know when you have any hard facts to support your contention
>>>>>>>that China is a hyperpower.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Within 20 years, the Chinese economy will probably be larger than
>>>>>>that of the United States. Already China's geopolitical influence has
>>>>>>grown along with its economic might."
>>>>>
>>>>> " Within 20 years....". I didn't ask for an opinion piece I asked
>>>>> for facts to support your contention that China is a Hyperpower.
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Moreover, the Chinese central bank is financing the massive US trade
>>>>>>deficit by $1 billion a day. Without those loans, US interest rates
>>>>>>would spike upward. Interest rates on mortgages would rise, hitting
>>>>>>housing sales, and raising costs for millions of homeowners."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>""This is a huge deal," says Clyde Prestowitz, president of the
>>>>>>Economic Strategy Institute in Washington. "We are on life-support
>>>>>>from China's central bank.""
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"The US will have to adjust to deal with another major power," says
>>>>>>Mr. Prestowitz. "So far we are in a kind of denial."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Last Friday, China and the European Union reached a friendly
>>>>>>agreement curtailing certain Chinese textile exports. Chinese
>>>>>>negotiator Bo Xilai indicated China's preference for such a negotiated
>>>>>>deal, rather than the US unilateral caps on China's textile exports.
>>>>>>He reportedly cited a Chinese saying: "If you respect me by an inch,
>>>>>>I'll respect you by a foot.""
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0616/p16s01-cogn.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Lets say.....oh...tomorrow, the United States decides to blockade all
>>>>> ships arriving and leaving China and the middle east except those
>>>>> outbound caring goods or oil to the United States.
>>>>>
>>>>> What are you euro's or China going to do to stop us?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Do NOT underestimate China's military, nor their resolve.
>>>>
>>>>Joel Jacobs
>>>>Chief Petty Officer
>>>>USNavy, Retired
>>>
>>> Well Chief you tell me how the Chinese have any force projection of
>>> power outside of a land war in Asia. At the height of their power,
>>> the fUSSR didn't want to take on the United States in a strategic
>>> military battle. What makes you think the Chinese can do it with a
>>> fraction of the power?
>>
>>Better do a wee bit more research before you shoot your fingers off on the
>>keyboard.
>>
>>Do an online search, nothing fancy, just check out the ICBM status, nuke
>>warhead status, submarines, surface navy, and airplanes..... there's other
>>stuff, but that'll do.
>
> I don't have to use google, Chief. China has NO Submarine status at
> all. They have ONE submarine missile boat called the Xia. This
> submarine has never been more than a harbor queen. In it's entire
> existence it has deployed ONCE to test fire a submarine launch
> missile. The rest of it's existence its sat in it's home port at
> Jianggezhuang. They have 18 ICBM's with questionable capability of
> reaching the US considering their long history of design flight
> failures. Their surface navy is a joke. Nothing better than a
> destroyer sized force with cruise missiles. Two years ago they sent
> their first surface ship on it's first around the world cruise.
> ONCE. Our attack submarines could wipe out their entire navy
> probably before they left Chinese territorial waters. They have
> little ASW capabilities to track our subs. Bombers and planes? None
> that can reach the US. The Chinese have no force projection outside
> of their territorial region. And China will never be a Hyperpower
> without a global force projection of power.
>
> To recap:
>
> 1. China has no credible ballistic submarines. The one they have is
> not operational.
> 2. China has 18 ICBM's with questionable capabilities.
> 3. China has a surface Navy with no aircraft carriers other than the
> one they bought from Russia and they've done nothing with it. They
> don't even have planes to go on the carrier. They have destroyers and
> frigates with old technology.
> 4. China has no strategic nuclear bomber force. NONE.
>
>
> You may be retired from the USN but you're an idiot. What were you a
> Yeoman or a Boatswain's Mate? You don't know anything about nuclear
> deterrent and it sounds like you really should stick to worrying about
> setting your Sea and Anchor detail and leaving the details of global
> strategic defense to the experts.


Well, no, I'm not an idiot, and I do know that China has about 90
submarines, more than 5,000 combat aircraft, an army of more than two
million, and they have also just committed an additional $10 billion toward
a updating the navy. Yes, it'll take a while, but fighting the Chinese is
not a slam dunk. After all the bombs are dropped and all the missiles shot
someone still has to go in and take possession with boots on the ground.

BTW, I was a staffie... CincPac, CincPacFlt, NATO South, ComFairMed, SubLant

I'm killfiling the whole mess....

On Sun, 19 Jun 2005 01:56:37 -0400, ZombyWoof >
wrote:

>>>Since the end of the Cold War, the United States has
>>>been the world's only superpower.
>>>
>>>The unique position of the United States (at least in terms of
>>>military force)
>>
>>See America not even being able to win the Vietnam war.
>>
>Nor were the French, but hells bells man it was a war that wasn't
>being fought to win.

The Communists fought to win and beat America.