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Consider buying American!



 
 
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  #21  
Old February 15th 08, 09:21 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: 358
Default Consider buying American!



BaJoRi wrote:

> What are the annual healthcare and retirement benefit costs for GM and Ford,
> owing to the UAW contracts, as compared with Honda and Toyota? So to say
> that those Japanese companies take care of their empoyees as well as the Big
> Three is an outright lie.


Toyota's annual health care costs are around $100M, worldwide, because
their US workforce is non-union, has much lousier beneifts, especially
in retirement, and almost all other countries have socialized
medicine, including Toyota's home turf, Japan.
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  #22  
Old February 15th 08, 09:48 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: 358
Default Consider buying American!



Pszemol wrote:

> Anybody remembers what was in the news some years ago about
> Jesse Jackson accusations to Nissan of racism ? Was it workers
> hiring process related? I forgot the details...


Jesse Jackson will accuse any company of discrimination unless it has
a deal with his organization or one of his friends' companies (mostly
law firms). I'm not saying Japanese companies are anywhere close to
squeaky clean (Mitsubishi's top management was reportedly e virtually
fascist in its racial attitudes), but Jackson should do more than just
be a publicity hound, and instead he should work more to weed out the
real injustices, as he did with Texaco
(chairman was caught on tape).

Jackson once accused Cypress Semiconductor of racial discrimination,
but its chairman, T.J. Rodgers, who doesn't care one bit about race,
told Jackson that he was ************ (Rodgers is famous for swearing,
even when interviewed by engineering and scientific journals) and that
35% of his company's workforce was non-white, with a slightly higher
in upper management.
  #23  
Old February 15th 08, 10:36 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: 358
Default Consider buying American!



Michael Yeager wrote:

> Jesse Jackson IS a racist. Anything that isn't as he thinks it should
> be runs the risk of being refered to with some kind of racial
> overtone...


He's not a racist but instead believes that equal opportunity has to
be verified by results. And before you call me a Jackson defender,
see my post about him and Cypress Semiconductor.
  #24  
Old February 15th 08, 10:42 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: 358
Default Consider buying American!



M.M. wrote:

> An interesting book about U.S. vs. Japanese car makers is "The
> Reckoning" by David Halberstam. It compares Nissan and Ford but is
> relevant to the others as well. One of the main themes is that U.S. car
> makers are run mostly by bean counters looking at the short term bottom
> line whereas Japanese companies are run by engineers and manufacturing
> people who are truly 'car people' and more concerned with a quality
> product. It was written in the mid 80's but is still applicable today.
> An interesting read...


It's a good book, but, ironically, when it came out, Ford made
something like record profits, and Nissan lost money.

  #25  
Old February 15th 08, 11:22 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
larry moe 'n curly
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Posts: 358
Default Consider buying American!



tater wrote:

> American cars are crap. Made by unionists more worried about when their
> next coffee break is than making quality cars.


So why does Consumer Reports say that GM's overall quality is on par
with non-union (at least in the US) Nissan's?

Why has CR given bad reliability marks for two non-union made Japanese
vehicles, the Nissan Titan (Mississippi) and the 4WD Toyota Tundra
(Texas)?

Which union members designed crappy cars for Detroit, especially those
furniture-like GM cars?

> They've negotiated themselves right out of jobs as the big auto
> makers cut back. It's not possible to do business that way
> and compete on a world wide economy.


The car makers were free to reject the union's demands and free to
employ the workers more efficiently.
  #26  
Old February 15th 08, 11:30 AM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Dave Plowman (News)
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Posts: 1,533
Default Consider buying American!

In article
>,
larry moe 'n curly > wrote:
> Which union members designed crappy cars for Detroit, especially those
> furniture-like GM cars?


In one.

'Unions' can *possibly* bear some responsibility for high prices - but not
for poor design, materials and quality control.

And of course what all those union bashers seem to forget is that a non
union low paid workforce won't have the money to spend on consumer goods
and services.

--
*If love is blind, why is lingerie so popular?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.
  #27  
Old February 15th 08, 01:17 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
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Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> BaJoRi wrote:
>
>> What are the annual healthcare and retirement benefit costs for GM and Ford,
>> owing to the UAW contracts, as compared with Honda and Toyota? So to say
>> that those Japanese companies take care of their empoyees as well as the Big
>> Three is an outright lie.

>
> Toyota's annual health care costs are around $100M, worldwide, because
> their US workforce is non-union, has much lousier beneifts, especially
> in retirement, and almost all other countries have socialized
> medicine, including Toyota's home turf, Japan.


The benefits that American automaker retirees have will be reduced if
the automakers go bankrupt.

Jeff
  #28  
Old February 15th 08, 01:28 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Bob Smitter
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Posts: 124
Default Consider buying American!

"larry moe 'n curly" > wrote:
> Why has CR given bad reliability marks for two non-union made Japanese
> vehicles, the Nissan Titan (Mississippi) and the 4WD Toyota Tundra
> (Texas)?


CR doesn't give the marks (ratings). They are compiled from
consumers' inputs.


  #29  
Old February 15th 08, 01:29 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
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Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article >,
> "Dave Plowman (News)" > wrote:
>
>> 'Unions' can *possibly* bear some responsibility for high prices - but not
>> for poor design, materials and quality control.
>>
>> And of course what all those union bashers seem to forget is that a non
>> union low paid workforce won't have the money to spend on consumer goods
>> and services.

>
> When the unions demand that the guy sweeping the bathroom get paid the
> same as the guy bolting the engine into the car, that's a problem caused
> by the union.


The guy sweeping the BR is just as important as the guy assembling the
engine.

I think there is a bigger problem when the CEO gets 100x more than the
lowest paid employee.

> When the union insists on a roomful of "extras" being paid the same wage
> as the guys on the line for doing nothing but sitting there waiting just
> in case some guy on the line has to go home, that's a problem caused by
> the union.


And who agreed to the union's demands?

Jeff
  #30  
Old February 15th 08, 02:08 PM posted to alt.autos.toyota,rec.autos.makers.honda,alt.autos.nissan,alt.autos.mercedes,alt.autos.bmw
Jeff[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 399
Default Consider buying American!

Bob Smitter wrote:
> "larry moe 'n curly" > wrote:
>> Why has CR given bad reliability marks for two non-union made Japanese
>> vehicles, the Nissan Titan (Mississippi) and the 4WD Toyota Tundra
>> (Texas)?

>
> CR doesn't give the marks (ratings). They are compiled from
> consumers' inputs.


In the case of Toyota, CR automatically gave new Toyota models high
reliability ratings. not any more.

Jeff
 




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