So-called "revival" of simracing : blah!

This LFS stuff is a big off topic, but here's my take on LFS.

>> Jeff Reid wrote:
>> > LFS - an unusually loyal fan base. Haven't played online in quite a while
>> > so I can't state how many players are actively online.
>>
>> A bunch of ******s who run around slagging off other sims over on RSC.

> The same could be said (the 'slagging' not the '******s' part) of the
> rFactor section. Or the GPL section. Or the NR2003 section... etc.

I think some LFS fans are just a bit too fanatic. From looking at the
forum threads, the amount of flaming that occurs after any complaint
about a games physics was highest in the LFS sections.

I never got the impression from the other game sections that the
players of that game thought that their game's physics didn't have any
flaws.

Many GPL fans used to think that GPL was the best simulation ever, but
were also willing to admit GPL had some physics / setup bugs.

> 3 programmers

With such a small team, LFS is destined to fall behind other sims by
the time LFS S3 is released. Also, only a small number of cars in
LFS get any actual real world feedback. I still feel that the tire
physics isn't right, and wonder if the team ever got any actual
slip angle versus lateral force curves for the various types of tires
used in actual racing, specifically, bias ply racing tires used in
most non-downforce racing classes, which lose very little grip
when pushed past the limits. In my own testing, steering beyond
the max on LFS S2's LX6 can reduce the cornering forces from 1.15g's
to below .8g's, far more than what a real racing tire would do.

> tight rein

One of the issues some (like me) have with LFS is that slicks aren't allowed
on more cars than currently allowed within the game. There is a slick for
all cars mod for LFS S1 and S2 alpha, so obviously there is a demand for
this. If this is supposed to be a racing simulator (not just a fun
run simulator), then model the tires actually used in racing of these
cars. Most racing classes allow slicks on some events, and for some
spec classes, the restriction is to DOT racing tires. LFS doesn't have
the equivalent of a DOT racing tire yet.

"ymenard" > wrote in message
.. .
> rFactor : 40, perhaps 50 people online MAX at peak times. Leagues are
> careful not to switch yet. Plenty of "possibilities" for mods but how
> many of them will 1) ever see the finish light 2) be of an actual quality
> and 3) be worth if it there's nobody racing them?
>
> GTL : Great cars on washed out neutered tracks. Still the old ISI game
> engine filled up with bugs. 3 months of fun then we move on to whatever's
> next as developpers don't support it per low sales of it.
>
> NR2003/GPL : still pumping out the races, but how long with the Sierra
> servers be kept alive?
>
> GTR : Read what I wrote in GTL but start with "Great modern cars".
>
> LfS : :-|
>
>
>
>
> So hmm what's next? iRacing? GTR2? Some miraculous other sim? People
> actually start RACING rFactor? Or we just die like the flightsim
> community?
>
>
> My pick : the last one.
>

Once rFactor has tracks that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all
(F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff,
etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is
inevitable! We are at the beginning, not the end!

"Mitch_A" > wrote in message
. ..
> Never say never.
>
> Today the consoles arent an option for me either. Someday that may not be
> the case though. When a console can run high res with all the accessories
> I can use now (wheels, sticks etc) I'd actually much prefer $3-400 for a
> console vs $1000-2000 for a high end PC. Today isnt the day though
>
> Mitch
>

Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, etc that
was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec!

> Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track, etc that
> was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec!

and the fact that consoles are commodity items and get replaced by
newer versions. Unless you have space to store them, this means older
games get obsoleted as well.

>> Or we just die like the flightsim community?

It isn't dead, it's just that the remaining 2 or 3 players
are busy going around the world in real time flying Cessna 172's.
(A lot of islands had to be invented for the cross ocean flights).

> Once rFactor has tracks that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all
> (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff,
> etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is
> inevitable! We are at the beginning, not the end!

I don't think any one game is ever going to dominate online play.
The closest to this we have right now is NR2003 online superspeedway
racing, where 300 to 500 players are online during peak times. For the
rest of the racing games, I suspect it will remain around 100 players
or less.

"Jeff Reid" > wrote in
news:4LK2f.67061$lq6.3155@fed1read01:

> Rally sims - I've never seen or played RBR. I do have Collin McRae
> Rally 2005, but only played it a few times. Just can't get motivated
> with rally style driving.
Collin McRae Rally isn't much of a sim. But RBR is stunning, it probably
has the best car physics among all sims. Unlike road racing sims it's much
more believable when you go off the pavement and over bumps (intentionally
or not). If you haven't driven RBR or rally car in real life you just
haven't experienced rally style driving. If you want to try, RBR is likely
to be a cheaper option (than real life rallying ;>)

> Like many players, I spend most of my gaming time offline as opposed
> to online. I think most GPL players probably fit into this category,
> hot lapping for a GPL rank as opposed to online racing.
I'm not sure, I run GPL almost exclusively online. It was around for such a
long time that most people got quite proficient and primarily race in the
leagues (official or practice races). There's a quality racing there, so
pick up racing is dying out. The funny side of such an established sim is
that many drivers are so consistent that races often resemble typical F1
processional races. Drivers qualify in the order of their pace, and 0.1s
per lap becomes unsurmountable margin when nobody makes mistakes. This
often makes practice races more fun, because faster drivers usually fall to
the back and try to make positions on track.
Alex.

>"Byron Forbes" > wrote Once rFactor has tracks
>that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all
> (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff,
> etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is
> inevitable! We are at the beginning, not the end!


Important word : "Once".

I see a very big egg vs. chicken problematic here for rFactor. Do
tracks/cars/mods bring people to the online environment, or will the people
online bring those tracks/cars/mods? Because at the moments, it's quite
evident that rFactor is not a big seller at all, the arenas and race servers
are not populated at all.

Considering there's no boxed release of rFactor, it's all in the
word-of-mouth. That thing can easily kill rFactor into the nothingless of
the internet, within half a dozen so-so 6-months-of-fun sims that are
developped fastly, fragment the community and aren't supported with patches
by the developpers (hmm ISI's babies anybody???). Or worse, if the rFactors
guys leave the community on it's own to create tracks, fix problems, WRITE A
MANUAL (jebus guys was it that hard to make?).





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Andre Warringa" > wrote
> I think the sim-racing world would be in awe if something like
> Enthusia or GT4 would be released for the PC


You mean a no-damage 4-car-multi game with semi-serious physics where the
way to go fast is to bounce into the walls and where the only good graphics
are in the replay mode?





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"ymenard" > wrote in message
.. .
> >"Byron Forbes" > wrote Once rFactor has tracks
> >that appeal to all and mods that appeal to all
>> (F1, Champ cars, Daytona Prototypes, Aussie V8 Supercars, Euro GT stuff,
>> etc) then you will see no activity anywhere except rFactor - it is
>> inevitable! We are at the beginning, not the end!
>
>
> Important word : "Once".
>
> I see a very big egg vs. chicken problematic here for rFactor. Do
> tracks/cars/mods bring people to the online environment, or will the
> people online bring those tracks/cars/mods? Because at the moments, it's
> quite evident that rFactor is not a big seller at all, the arenas and race
> servers are not populated at all.
>
> Considering there's no boxed release of rFactor, it's all in the
> word-of-mouth. That thing can easily kill rFactor into the nothingless of
> the internet, within half a dozen so-so 6-months-of-fun sims that are
> developped fastly, fragment the community and aren't supported with
> patches by the developpers (hmm ISI's babies anybody???). Or worse, if
> the rFactors guys leave the community on it's own to create tracks, fix
> problems, WRITE A MANUAL (jebus guys was it that hard to make?).
>

I think you're forgetting GPL - the ultimate in success amongst the sim
community (screw commercial success).

The moral to the story is simple - if it's good, real good, word of
mouth will do the rest.

And it already is really good. Not only are the mods and tracks on the
horizon (not too mention some in place), but a trip to
http://www.rfactor.net/index.php will soon reveale that it's about to get a
lot better and has a heap of bug fixes (and this is in a sim that has hardly
any bugs at all). This is a very good sign if you ask me.

I'll go on the record right now and say that rFactor is easily the best
thing since sliced bread and GPL (wondering if sliced bread and GPL are of
the same era LOL).

which has a 2 edge sword, because 'developers' would then be likely to make
money (if worth the trouble I assume) with newer versions every year. more
poeple selling games, I dunno I kinda really hate the way the punk mentality
with virus' spyware and crap has gotten up to, so I am hatting the PC, but I
could hate a console too having to wait for new games to fix bugs in old
ones? <G>. Bah!
Jeff Reid enlightened us with:
>> Not to mention that you could say goodbye to every mod, track,
>> etc that was ever released for any sim - think about that for a sec!
>
> and the fact that consoles are commodity items and get replaced by
> newer versions. Unless you have space to store them, this means older
> games get obsoleted as well.