2000 TJ 4.0L fuel injectors

Matt, I really doubt you're having ANY fuel injector problems and I even
more strongly doubt they need cleaning. Today's injectors with todays
fuels that ALL contain fuel injector cleaners keep them pretty darned
clean. They just don't wear out this quickly, 110,000 miles is not a
lot of miles at all. Mine have 160K miles on them and I know plenty
with over 220K miles on them. Just trying to save you a bit of $$$ and
time.

Jerry

Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:16 -0600, Matt Osborn wrote:
>
>
>>I have 110,000 miles on my TJ and am losing what I assume to be fuel
>>rail pressure when parked for a few hours. Before starting the
>>engine, I leave the ignition in the on position for a few seconds
>>before cranking the starter. The engine always starts promptly when I
>>do this.
>>
>>Before running up the maintenance bills, cleaning the injectors,
>>replacing o-rings, etc., I thought it might be better to simply
>>replace the injectors.
>>
>>I guess what I'm asking is if fuel injectors 'wear out'. That is, how
>>long will a set of injectors last?
>>
>
>
> Thanks, everyone.
>
> The injectors are due for cleaning, so I'll have that done. The
> anti-drainback valve Jerry mentioned sounds like something I can live
> with until the fuel pump fails.
>
> Again, thanks for help!
>
>
> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com

--
Jerry Bransford
PP-ASEL N6TAY
See the Geezer Jeep at
http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

u are right about jeep injectors but i'm seeing all kinds of gm injectors
failing

Jerry Bransford wrote:

> Matt, I really doubt you're having ANY fuel injector problems and I even
> more strongly doubt they need cleaning. Today's injectors with todays
> fuels that ALL contain fuel injector cleaners keep them pretty darned
> clean. They just don't wear out this quickly, 110,000 miles is not a
> lot of miles at all. Mine have 160K miles on them and I know plenty
> with over 220K miles on them. Just trying to save you a bit of $$$ and
> time.
>
> Jerry
>
> Matt Osborn wrote:
> > On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 17:40:16 -0600, Matt Osborn wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I have 110,000 miles on my TJ and am losing what I assume to be fuel
> >>rail pressure when parked for a few hours. Before starting the
> >>engine, I leave the ignition in the on position for a few seconds
> >>before cranking the starter. The engine always starts promptly when I
> >>do this.
> >>
> >>Before running up the maintenance bills, cleaning the injectors,
> >>replacing o-rings, etc., I thought it might be better to simply
> >>replace the injectors.
> >>
> >>I guess what I'm asking is if fuel injectors 'wear out'. That is, how
> >>long will a set of injectors last?
> >>
> >
> >
> > Thanks, everyone.
> >
> > The injectors are due for cleaning, so I'll have that done. The
> > anti-drainback valve Jerry mentioned sounds like something I can live
> > with until the fuel pump fails.
> >
> > Again, thanks for help!
> >
> >
> > -- msosborn at msosborn dot com
>
> --
> Jerry Bransford
> PP-ASEL N6TAY
> See the Geezer Jeep at
> http://members.cox.net/jerrypb/

philthy did pass the time by typing:
> u are right about jeep injectors but i'm seeing all kinds of gm injectors
> failing

Interesting note. There are at least two different types of injector
designs out there. The older ones use fairly high current to keep the
injector valve open. Others use a higher current pulse to open the
injector and a lower current to keep them open. That type uses a much
finer coil and is more suceptable to overheating and shorting out.

--
DougW

i have worked at this new place 3 months and have replaced more gm injectors
than i have in 20 years of wrenching on jeeps

DougW wrote:

> philthy did pass the time by typing:
> > u are right about jeep injectors but i'm seeing all kinds of gm injectors
> > failing
>
> Interesting note. There are at least two different types of injector
> designs out there. The older ones use fairly high current to keep the
> injector valve open. Others use a higher current pulse to open the
> injector and a lower current to keep them open. That type uses a much
> finer coil and is more suceptable to overheating and shorting out.
>
> --
> DougW

philthy did pass the time by typing:
> i have worked at this new place 3 months and have replaced more gm injectors
> than i have in 20 years of wrenching on jeeps

Sounds like they got a bad shipment of injectors or are just using bad products.

no actually gm makes crap hey maybe thats why delphi is going down

DougW wrote:

> philthy did pass the time by typing:
> > i have worked at this new place 3 months and have replaced more gm injectors
> > than i have in 20 years of wrenching on jeeps
>
> Sounds like they got a bad shipment of injectors or are just using bad products.

Not that his has ****-all to do with jeeps or willys, but:

Matt Osborn wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:51:29 -0500, philthy > wrote:
>
>>no actually gm makes crap hey maybe thats why delphi is going down
>
> Delphi (and many airlines and other manufacturers) are going down
> because management made deals with their unions for unsustainable
> benefit packages.

Delphi is shipping water because their business model -- and the big GM
teat that it suckles on, didn't adapt to change. GM wasn't under any
union obligation to pack their dealer's lots with Escalades at 13MPG
while ignoring that there's a shooting war in the oil-rich middle east,
they did that all by their lonesome, thinking that they'd make big cars
with big profit margins today instead of having a plan for half a decade
down the road. Was GM going to maintain their market share forever?
No, but they -- and the unions -- clearly thought that they would.


> We now face the specter of our government subsidizing both. Not only
> are these companies going to be let off the hook for their disastrous
> union contracts, but we are actually going to pick up the tab for the
> union members as well.

Those were contracts that were written when both sides of the table
figured that the gravy train would continue to roll. You could,
depending on your bias, lay the blame at any number of other parties: GM
for underfunding their pension plan by some $31 billion[1], stock buyers
for not only encouraging such madness but rewarding the company for
doing so, the federal government for failing to prevent companies from
underfunding pensions, the medical system for being so efficient at
keeping retirees from dying early, other companies for making cars that
outsold GM's, and so on.

As it is, Delphi isn't on the hook for the whole nut: "As as part of the
[1999] spin-off deal, GM agreed to back the pension, life insurance and
retiree health benefits of its former workers at Delphi." [2]

I recall when Lee Iacocca slyly suggested that it might be in the
country's best interest if the federal government just "forgave" that
bailout loan that they got. Fortunately it wasn't.


> As one who has provided for his own retirement, I find the above
> appalling. If union members are to have a publicly financed
> retirement aside from SSI, why shouldn't everyone else?

Well, just to play the Devil's Advocate, you -- and I -- are going to
pay either way. Either we pay for the retirement of past employees out
of current company profits -- that means paid for by consumers, or we
pay for out of tax revenue, and that means paid for by workers, or GM
and Delphi collapse and we pay for it in lost investment. In any case,
if the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation does have to take over a
plan it caps the benefits at $43,977 a year. For a lot of professionals
that's half of what they had planned on having for their service to
their employer. Do I want to pay for it out of taxes? Hell, no, but at
least there's a cap.

Oh, and poor Delphi? Their Board of Directors are getting between
$120,000 and $200,000 a year in cash after managing the company into the
ground, their new CEO got a $3 million signing bonus and 600 of their
executives stand to get a average of 2/3 of a million dollars each if
they don't jump ship. [4] It's good work if you can get it, I guess.
Who is bleeding the company white?



[1]<URL:http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/retirement/2005-12-06-eroding-pensions_x.htm>

[2]<URL:http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051202/AUTO01/512020329/1148>

[3]<URL:http://www.ridgecrestca.com/articles/2005/12/06/news/columnists/colo02.txt>

[4]<URL:http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051210/BUSINESS01/512100370/1014/BUSINESS>

well lets see if the guy miller who runs the company forgos his 1.5 mill.
salary and fired all the 32 exec's who also made 1.5 mill base salary
each and this is public record (court docs)
the grand total; of those wages come to exactly what delphi filed for in
bankruptcy court and you want to blame the worker and now those 32 are
getting a 180 billion severance package i disagrre with you sir

Matt, Osborn wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 09:51:29 -0500, philthy > wrote:
>
> >no actually gm makes crap hey maybe thats why delphi is going down
>
> Delphi (and many airlines and other manufacturers) are going down
> because management made deals with their unions for unsustainable
> benefit packages.
>
> We now face the specter of our government subsidizing both. Not only
> are these companies going to be let off the hook for their disastrous
> union contracts, but we are actually going to pick up the tab for the
> union members as well.
>
> As one who has provided for his own retirement, I find the above
> appalling. If union members are to have a publicly financed
> retirement aside from SSI, why shouldn't everyone else?
>
> -- msosborn at msosborn dot com