the oil change from HELL ( was torq sticks )

Well I got all my money back from returning the torq sticks, and
having all that money _burning_ a hole in my pocket, I just had to
find something, -anything- to spend it on. ;-\

So I bought 2 items.
1 torque clicker wrench
and
1 Pneumatic Oil Extractor Model 45754 ( Central Pneumatic brand )

And I still have $50 left in my wallet ;-)

Now how is that possible. I dunno.

So it is raining here today, and I had to change the oil and filter.
So I decided instead of using my Rhino ramps and going under the car
to the oil sump plug, I would just shove the tube from the Oil
Extractor down the dipstick tube. All the way.

Well, I got a little over 4 liters out, according to the holding tank
on the pneumatic suction pump. I said, THAT AIN'T ENOUGH! I'm surely
supposed to get more than that out. Every time I've drained the thing
in the past, 5 quarts, counting the new oil filter.

So we go to a 4 hour interlude here, where I can't get the old oil
filter off no way no how. I tried friction tape, strap wrenches,
screwdrivers punched through the can, brute strength, nothing worked.
Finally in desparation I got my large jaw slip wrench, and THAT moved
it, albiet with a lot of sweat because there isn't much wiggle room in
that damn engine compartment of mine.

Now the new filter is on HAND TIGHT ONLY and isn't leaking. The
secret is not to tighten it so much you can't see the rubber oil
filter gasket anymore. You should have about 1/16th of an inch of
rubber gasket showing between the engine block and the metal can. If
you can't see the gasket because you tightened it too much, you will
kick yourself in the ass later when it comes time to remove the
filter.

That was the single most miserable oil change I've EVER done. The oil
came out like $hit through a Xmass goose, but the filter came off
light it was clinging to Life. HOURS to get that damn filter off.
unbelievable but TRUE.

Anyhow to the oil, I said I'm gonna jack the car and pull the sump
plug because that CAN'T be all the oil. Then I said no I'm not, I'll
just start pouring new oil into the engine and stop when it hits the
full mark on the stick. Then I'll know how much old crap this POS
pump didn't remove.

Surprise surprise! says Gomer. I got MORE than 5 quarts out. More
than if I had pulled the sump drain plug. Because now 5 quarts bring
the level up to 1/4 inch =short= of the full mark. Going through the
sump drain hole used to bring it up to the full mark. So there. Fast
and easy. Completely painless, no ramps, no jacks, no nothing. Just
shove the collection hose all the way down the dipstick tube and
squeeze the vacuum valve to ON and lock it in position. Stand back,
and inside a few minutes, your engine is SWEPT CLEAN. Cleaner than
going out the sump hole!

This I will sign my name to, and I intend to use it on my tranny fluid
later on, sometime this week, because my tranny sump does not have a
drain port, although I bought a B&M Drain Plug Kit for it model 80250,
but now it looks like I may not need to install it after all, and if I
want to change the filter, I can do a pan drop WITHOUT getting covered
in ATF fluid !

Go buy the Pneumatic Extractor ! It is damn well worth what it costs,
although I can't pull that number off the top of my head right this
second.

What else......

Nothin much else for now. Anybody need a drain plug kit for their
tranny pan?

Lg

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
(...)

> I got MORE than 5 quarts out.

(...)

Yup. That was my experience, too. Side bonus for me is that, for
whatever reason, the oil filter on my car comes away from the car without
dripping at all, when I use the vacuum tank to drain the oil.
Very tidy.

> This I will sign my name to, and I intend to use it on my tranny fluid
> later on, sometime this week, because my tranny sump does not have a
> drain port,

Be vewwy vewwy careful, Lawrence. I used my vacuum setup to clean up
the tranny fluid in both my Camrys. One worked great. The other one
went into the shop for a US $3600. tranny repair. Clean your filler
funnel as if it is gonna be used for your personal transfusion, and use
a filter paper inside it, just in case, would be my advice.


--Winston

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:04:48 -0800, Winston >
wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>(...)
>
>> I got MORE than 5 quarts out.
>
>(...)
>
>Yup. That was my experience, too. Side bonus for me is that, for
>whatever reason, the oil filter on my car comes away from the car without
>dripping at all, when I use the vacuum tank to drain the oil.
>Very tidy.
>
>> This I will sign my name to, and I intend to use it on my tranny fluid
>> later on, sometime this week, because my tranny sump does not have a
>> drain port,
>
>Be vewwy vewwy careful, Lawrence. I used my vacuum setup to clean up
>the tranny fluid in both my Camrys. One worked great. The other one
>went into the shop for a US $3600. tranny repair. Clean your filler
>funnel as if it is gonna be used for your personal transfusion, and use
>a filter paper inside it, just in case, would be my advice.
>
>
>--Winston

OK, so I will be SUPER CLEAN with the intake tube on the tranny. I
have some coffee filters lying around, do you think that would
contaminate the ATF or keep it clean? I will clean the funnel first
to a shine.

Lg

Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:04:48 -0800, Winston >
> wrote:
>
(...)

>>Be vewwy vewwy careful, Lawrence. I used my vacuum setup to clean up
>>the tranny fluid in both my Camrys. One worked great. The other one
>>went into the shop for a US $3600. tranny repair. Clean your filler
>>funnel as if it is gonna be used for your personal transfusion, and use
>>a filter paper inside it, just in case, would be my advice.
>>
>>
>>--Winston
>
>
> OK, so I will be SUPER CLEAN with the intake tube on the tranny. I
> have some coffee filters lying around, do you think that would
> contaminate the ATF or keep it clean?

The paper disposable kind? Probably couldn't hurt at all but I bow
to the opinion of those more experienced, should they opine.

> I will clean the funnel first to a shine.

That would be good, using a waterless solvent like brake cleaner.
Also, please be sure your vaccuum dip tube is absolutely antiseptically
clean when it goes into your tranny sump.
We don't need to drag particulate matter into the tranny from the
end of that tube (and from wherever it was last used)!

You will have remembered to buy the proper tranny pan gasket, proper
wrenches, a plastic drop cloth and a can of cleaner for the strainer
filter before starting, yes?
Be sure the strainer is *dry* before reinstalling.

BTW, after filling the tranny, the dipstick will give you false 'high'
readings until the inside of the dipstick tube is clean of fluid.
I haven't found a good, safe way to clean the inside of the dipstick
tube other than to dip and wipe the dipstick ~12 times after *each*
addition of fluid. Reading that dipstick can be an art, cause the
fluid can act more viscous than does motor oil.

Don't overfill your transmission. Damage can result.

Be sure to follow the manufacturer's recommended procedure when checking
fluid level. On my cars, that means:
1) Car must be level.
2) Engine must be running and coolant must be in operating temperature
range.
3) Slowly shift from 'Park' to the lowest drive gear and back to 'Park'
to fill the servos before checking level.

There are probably a couple 'gotchas' that I haven't recalled correctly,
but that's about it.

The US $50. tranny service from your local quality mechanic is starting
to sound better, yes?

--Winston

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:47:59 -0800, Winston >
wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:04:48 -0800, Winston >
>> wrote:
>>
>(...)
>
>>>Be vewwy vewwy careful, Lawrence. I used my vacuum setup to clean up
>>>the tranny fluid in both my Camrys. One worked great. The other one
>>>went into the shop for a US $3600. tranny repair. Clean your filler
>>>funnel as if it is gonna be used for your personal transfusion, and use
>>>a filter paper inside it, just in case, would be my advice.
>>>
>>>
>>>--Winston
>>
>>
>> OK, so I will be SUPER CLEAN with the intake tube on the tranny. I
>> have some coffee filters lying around, do you think that would
>> contaminate the ATF or keep it clean?
>
>The paper disposable kind? Probably couldn't hurt at all but I bow
>to the opinion of those more experienced, should they opine.
>
>> I will clean the funnel first to a shine.
>
>That would be good, using a waterless solvent like brake cleaner.
>Also, please be sure your vaccuum dip tube is absolutely antiseptically
>clean when it goes into your tranny sump.
>We don't need to drag particulate matter into the tranny from the
>end of that tube (and from wherever it was last used)!
>
>You will have remembered to buy the proper tranny pan gasket, proper
>wrenches, a plastic drop cloth and a can of cleaner for the strainer
>filter before starting, yes?
>Be sure the strainer is *dry* before reinstalling.
>
>BTW, after filling the tranny, the dipstick will give you false 'high'
>readings until the inside of the dipstick tube is clean of fluid.
>I haven't found a good, safe way to clean the inside of the dipstick
>tube other than to dip and wipe the dipstick ~12 times after *each*
>addition of fluid. Reading that dipstick can be an art, cause the
>fluid can act more viscous than does motor oil.
>
>Don't overfill your transmission. Damage can result.
>
>Be sure to follow the manufacturer's recommended procedure when checking
>fluid level. On my cars, that means:
>1) Car must be level.
>2) Engine must be running and coolant must be in operating temperature
> range.
>3) Slowly shift from 'Park' to the lowest drive gear and back to 'Park'
> to fill the servos before checking level.
>
>There are probably a couple 'gotchas' that I haven't recalled correctly,
>but that's about it.

I've changed my ATF and transmission filter and gasket before, +
cleaned up the pan and the circular magnets. No big deal for me.
BTDT and have the coffee mug.

How you ended up with a $3000 tranny bill for one of your Camreys is
beyond me. I can't imagine what went wrong. Changing ATF alone is
child's play. The pan drop and filter, well that is teenager stuff.
I've never dared go beyond that level because I've never had to.
Lucky? Maybe.

But here is my rationale. I've got 15,000 miles on this car. The
tranny fluid is brown, but not burned smelling ( I can't smell
anything anyhow ). I brought it to the dealership and said YOU GUYS
had this as a dealer demo and with this low mileage on the car, care
to explain how the tranny fluid went from pink to mud in 15K miles?

They said NOTHING is wrong with the tranny. I grabbed a sheet of
white paper, took a tech head out to the vehicle, took a sample from
the dipstick and wiped it on the white paper. Brown as mud.

Went inside to the display case where they have "good" pink fluid in a
test tube and "bad" mud fluid in a test tube. Poured some on the same
piece of paper.

Hey guys, can you tell me which mud sample is from MY CAR and which is
from your test tube of ****?!

By this time I was getting ****ed. We started a basketball game
batting the paper back and forth, them to me, me to them, I looked at
this tech and ****wit service manager and said "Check It Out." and
walked out of the room.

Now what is in there? who knows. If you know about taurus
transmissions, you have REASON to be concerned about something like
this.

What I am going to do, is suction out the crap I can get to, add exact
same amount to tranny that I took out, to the drop.

I will repeat this proceedure every 90 days ( when I change my oil )
until I have reason to believe I have CLEAN fluid inside the torque
converter as well as the rest of the assembly. That will be 3 pumps
and pours over the period of the next 270 days. There is no reason to
believe the filter needs to be replaced.

Last transmission I disassembled had a clean as a whistle filter, no
different than brand new. Although I put a new gasket on THAT ATF
pan, you can re-use the old one. At least once anyhow. Just be
careful to make sure the bolts are torqued evenly between 7 and 13
inch pounds.

>The US $50. tranny service from your local quality mechanic is starting
>to sound better, yes?

No. Because there ARE no local "quality" mechanics. 1/2 the reason I
do this stuff myself. The other 1/2 reason is to save on labor rates.

We have Pep Boys butchers, $tealership butchers, and plain old
backyard butchers. Hey, it ain't _their_ car so why should they give
a ****. And if they do %uck it up, that's more money in their pocket
when I bring it back for a repair of what they BROKE the last time
they were dicking with my car. Once bit, twice shy.

>--Winston

Lg

Lawrence Glickman > wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:47:59 -0800, Winston >
> wrote:

> >Lawrence Glickman wrote:
> >> On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 21:04:48 -0800, Winston >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >(...)
> >
> >>>Be vewwy vewwy careful, Lawrence. I used my vacuum setup to clean up
> >>>the tranny fluid in both my Camrys. One worked great. The other one
> >>>went into the shop for a US $3600. tranny repair. Clean your filler
> >>>funnel as if it is gonna be used for your personal transfusion, and use
> >>>a filter paper inside it, just in case, would be my advice.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>--Winston
> >>
> >>
> >> OK, so I will be SUPER CLEAN with the intake tube on the tranny. I
> >> have some coffee filters lying around, do you think that would
> >> contaminate the ATF or keep it clean?
> >
> >The paper disposable kind? Probably couldn't hurt at all but I bow
> >to the opinion of those more experienced, should they opine.
> >
> >> I will clean the funnel first to a shine.
> >
> >That would be good, using a waterless solvent like brake cleaner.
> >Also, please be sure your vaccuum dip tube is absolutely antiseptically
> >clean when it goes into your tranny sump.
> >We don't need to drag particulate matter into the tranny from the
> >end of that tube (and from wherever it was last used)!
> >
> >You will have remembered to buy the proper tranny pan gasket, proper
> >wrenches, a plastic drop cloth and a can of cleaner for the strainer
> >filter before starting, yes?
> >Be sure the strainer is *dry* before reinstalling.
> >
> >BTW, after filling the tranny, the dipstick will give you false 'high'
> >readings until the inside of the dipstick tube is clean of fluid.
> >I haven't found a good, safe way to clean the inside of the dipstick
> >tube other than to dip and wipe the dipstick ~12 times after *each*
> >addition of fluid. Reading that dipstick can be an art, cause the
> >fluid can act more viscous than does motor oil.
> >
> >Don't overfill your transmission. Damage can result.
> >
> >Be sure to follow the manufacturer's recommended procedure when checking
> >fluid level. On my cars, that means:
> >1) Car must be level.
> >2) Engine must be running and coolant must be in operating temperature
> > range.
> >3) Slowly shift from 'Park' to the lowest drive gear and back to 'Park'
> > to fill the servos before checking level.
> >
> >There are probably a couple 'gotchas' that I haven't recalled correctly,
> >but that's about it.

> I've changed my ATF and transmission filter and gasket before, +
> cleaned up the pan and the circular magnets. No big deal for me.
> BTDT and have the coffee mug.

> How you ended up with a $3000 tranny bill for one of your Camreys is
> beyond me. I can't imagine what went wrong. Changing ATF alone is
> child's play. The pan drop and filter, well that is teenager stuff.
> I've never dared go beyond that level because I've never had to.
> Lucky? Maybe.

> But here is my rationale. I've got 15,000 miles on this car. The
> tranny fluid is brown, but not burned smelling ( I can't smell
> anything anyhow ). I brought it to the dealership and said YOU GUYS
> had this as a dealer demo and with this low mileage on the car, care
> to explain how the tranny fluid went from pink to mud in 15K miles?

> They said NOTHING is wrong with the tranny. I grabbed a sheet of
> white paper, took a tech head out to the vehicle, took a sample from
> the dipstick and wiped it on the white paper. Brown as mud.

> Went inside to the display case where they have "good" pink fluid in a
> test tube and "bad" mud fluid in a test tube. Poured some on the same
> piece of paper.

> Hey guys, can you tell me which mud sample is from MY CAR and which is
> from your test tube of ****?!

> By this time I was getting ****ed. We started a basketball game
> batting the paper back and forth, them to me, me to them, I looked at
> this tech and ****wit service manager and said "Check It Out." and
> walked out of the room.

> Now what is in there? who knows. If you know about taurus
> transmissions, you have REASON to be concerned about something like
> this.

> What I am going to do, is suction out the crap I can get to, add exact
> same amount to tranny that I took out, to the drop.

> I will repeat this proceedure every 90 days ( when I change my oil )
> until I have reason to believe I have CLEAN fluid inside the torque
> converter as well as the rest of the assembly. That will be 3 pumps
> and pours over the period of the next 270 days. There is no reason to
> believe the filter needs to be replaced.

Two of the most popular reasons for discolored fluid are heat and
contamination. With so little miles on the vehicle I would pull
the pan and replace the filter. You might find your the answer
to your fluid question in the bottom of the pan...

Lawrence Glickman wrote:

> I've changed my ATF and transmission filter and gasket before, +
> cleaned up the pan and the circular magnets. No big deal for me.
> BTDT and have the coffee mug.

Ah. A thousand pardons, then.

> How you ended up with a $3000 tranny bill for one of your Camreys is
> beyond me. I can't imagine what went wrong.

Me neither. It sounded as if some grit got stuck in the main servo
and put the main clutch in permanent 'linear mode'. ie self destruct.
Though what I know about auto trannys wouldn't fill a thimble.....

> Changing ATF alone is child's play. The pan drop and filter, well
> that is teenager stuff.
> I've never dared go beyond that level because I've never had to.
> Lucky? Maybe.

We have both been lucky, apparently!

(...)

> Hey guys, can you tell me which mud sample is from MY CAR and which is
> from your test tube of ****?!

I expect that their marketing example backfired here.

We have both emptied the sumps of well-maintained transmissions.
The fluid is never red. It's browinish with *lots* of suspended
particulates. It might easily have run another 30K miles before
jelling and blowing up the tranny. It really isn't *bad*, yet.

(...)

> What I am going to do, is suction out the crap I can get to, add exact
> same amount to tranny that I took out, to the drop.

You left out the part about leveling up the fluid when you are done,
but I get your point. I wish I could be assured that there isn't
a sharp edge at the bottom of the dip tube waiting to shave plastic
off the end of that suction tube on retraction... hoo boy.

> I will repeat this proceedure every 90 days ( when I change my oil )
> until I have reason to believe I have CLEAN fluid inside the torque
> converter as well as the rest of the assembly.

Clean-ish fluid. The stuff loads up and turns brown fairly quickly.

(...)

> Last transmission I disassembled had a clean as a whistle filter, no
> different than brand new. Although I put a new gasket on THAT ATF
> pan, you can re-use the old one. At least once anyhow. Just be
> careful to make sure the bolts are torqued evenly between 7 and 13
> inch pounds.

Well, gaskets are cheap and resilient. I like the fact that the new
gasket has a certain amount of stored 'spring' to help seal both
surfaces. I can't imagine reusing that part.

>>The US $50. tranny service from your local quality mechanic is starting
>>to sound better, yes?
>
> No. Because there ARE no local "quality" mechanics. 1/2 the reason I
> do this stuff myself. The other 1/2 reason is to save on labor rates.

Well, good on you!

BTW, I bought a 'power' brake bleeder from these folks and used it on
my sedan last week:
http://www.trackhaus.com/category-ex...?source=google

Lemme tell ya, that was a pleasure compared to the circus I used to
go through. Fast and easy, once you get the hang of installing the
pressure cap. The brakes feel much better now, too.

--Winston

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 09:17:07 +0000 (UTC), Edward Strauss
> wrote:
>
>Two of the most popular reasons for discolored fluid are heat and
>contamination. With so little miles on the vehicle I would pull
>the pan and replace the filter. You might find your the answer
>to your fluid question in the bottom of the pan...

Edward, I looked at the tranny fluid just a while ago. The dealership
had it on a lift in the tranny building, and I see new pink fluid in
there.

As long as it stays pink, I'm not going to fool with it. Evidently
the dealership DID find something wrong with it, otherwise they would
NOT have flush the entire system, which they apparently did.

So I'll just monitor the color of it over the coming months, and
if/when it starts to go brown, I'll do a pan drop. In the meantime, I
have to believe they did a pan drop as well as a fluid flush, because
I made it _clear_ to the Service Manager at this joint that I wasn't
gonna be just another sucker. I didn't use the word "attorney," but
it is know far and wide that I have a really good one. He ain't
cheap, but he DOES get results ;-)

Lg

On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 02:11:17 -0800, Winston >
wrote:

>Lawrence Glickman wrote:
>
>> I've changed my ATF and transmission filter and gasket before, +
>> cleaned up the pan and the circular magnets. No big deal for me.
>> BTDT and have the coffee mug.
>
>Ah. A thousand pardons, then.
>
>> How you ended up with a $3000 tranny bill for one of your Camreys is
>> beyond me. I can't imagine what went wrong.
>
>Me neither. It sounded as if some grit got stuck in the main servo
>and put the main clutch in permanent 'linear mode'. ie self destruct.
>Though what I know about auto trannys wouldn't fill a thimble.....
>
>> Changing ATF alone is child's play. The pan drop and filter, well
>> that is teenager stuff.
>> I've never dared go beyond that level because I've never had to.
>> Lucky? Maybe.
>
>We have both been lucky, apparently!
>
>(...)
>
>> Hey guys, can you tell me which mud sample is from MY CAR and which is
>> from your test tube of ****?!
>
>I expect that their marketing example backfired here.
>
>We have both emptied the sumps of well-maintained transmissions.
>The fluid is never red. It's browinish with *lots* of suspended
>particulates. It might easily have run another 30K miles before
>jelling and blowing up the tranny. It really isn't *bad*, yet.

Yes it is "bad." I've been told there is no such thing as mud
transmission fluid coming out of a healthy transmission. And if you
say "lots" of suspended particles, well yes my circular magnets had
*some* noticeable amount of powdery metallic material stuck to them,
but nothing was noticeable in either the fluid, filter, or sump
bottom. Evidently the particulates were small enough to make it
through the screen which they call a filter, and stayed in circulation
until the magnets caught them.

I think that is normal, otherwise, why put the magnets in there. Or
even the filter.

OTOH, dark brown fluid in a transmission is usually a sign that
something is wrong. As Edward just mentioned, overheating is a
possibility. In my case, I have a transmission cooler right at the
bottom of my radiator, so I would be very surprised if that is the
reason for the brown fluid in my case, but anything is possible with a
Taurus Transmission.

>(...)
>
>> What I am going to do, is suction out the crap I can get to, add exact
>> same amount to tranny that I took out, to the drop.
>
>You left out the part about leveling up the fluid when you are done,
>but I get your point. I wish I could be assured that there isn't
>a sharp edge at the bottom of the dip tube waiting to shave plastic
>off the end of that suction tube on retraction... hoo boy.

What I did was cut a bevel in the bottom of the tube so there is
always an intake port there no matter what position the tube is in or
where it is located. IOW, I just sliced the end at a 45 degree angle.
If I don't get the entire thing back out, I know something is left in
the engine. This is my 2 second solution to -that- problem. Just use
a razor knife or scissors and cut the end of the tube at a 45 degree
angle. When you get the entire tube back including the tip, you'll
know you're OK.

>> I will repeat this proceedure every 90 days ( when I change my oil )
>> until I have reason to believe I have CLEAN fluid inside the torque
>> converter as well as the rest of the assembly.
>
>Clean-ish fluid. The stuff loads up and turns brown fairly quickly.

Well I dunno about that. I changed the tranny fluid on my Merc Tracer
at 30,000 miles, and it wasn't brown, I can assure you of that.

>(...)
>
>> Last transmission I disassembled had a clean as a whistle filter, no
>> different than brand new. Although I put a new gasket on THAT ATF
>> pan, you can re-use the old one. At least once anyhow. Just be
>> careful to make sure the bolts are torqued evenly between 7 and 13
>> inch pounds.
>
>Well, gaskets are cheap and resilient. I like the fact that the new
>gasket has a certain amount of stored 'spring' to help seal both
>surfaces. I can't imagine reusing that part.

The problem with the new gasket is you have to put grease on the
bottom side of it so it won't slide off the metal pan when you are
re-attaching it. It will probably move anyhow, because it came in a
box, distorted in shape. So when you go to re-mount it, you have a
fun time trying to find the screw holes in the new gasket, and believe
me, there are a bazillion of them.

>>>The US $50. tranny service from your local quality mechanic is starting
>>>to sound better, yes?
>>
>> No. Because there ARE no local "quality" mechanics. 1/2 the reason I
>> do this stuff myself. The other 1/2 reason is to save on labor rates.
>
>Well, good on you!

I haven't any choice. I live on a VERY small pension. It is so
small, you would call it your weekly wage, while in my case it has to
last a month ;-|

>BTW, I bought a 'power' brake bleeder from these folks and used it on
>my sedan last week:
>http://www.trackhaus.com/category-ex...?source=google
>
>Lemme tell ya, that was a pleasure compared to the circus I used to
>go through. Fast and easy, once you get the hang of installing the
>pressure cap. The brakes feel much better now, too.
>
>--Winston

That looks pretty cool.
The Pneumatic Oil Extractor I bought comes with a special hose and
fitting for removing brake fluid from brake lines with no effort.
Same as with the oil, except it has a special fitting for brake lines.

Also, tonight just an hour ago, I bought a Pennzoil professional
pliers type oil filter wrench, good for filters 51mm to 95 mm in
diameter.
Model 19420
After the living Hell I went through yesterday, the words "Never
Again" come to mind....

And to double-cover my bases, I got a Code 04 oil filter wrench that
takes a socket handle, and fits the serrated top of the filter, for
just in case.

My arms are cut from my hands all the way up to my elbows from that
struggle. Never Again ;-) !!!! Next time, if these tools don't do
the job, I'll be using dynamite. At my wits end after wrestling with
a lousy tin-can filter for hours and hours and hours. Lesson learned.
Hand tighten only.

Lg

"Lawrence Glickman" > wrote in message
...

>
> The problem with the new gasket is you have to put grease on the
> bottom side of it so it won't slide off the metal pan when you are
> re-attaching it. It will probably move anyhow, because it came in a
> box, distorted in shape. So when you go to re-mount it, you have a
> fun time trying to find the screw holes in the new gasket, and believe
> me, there are a bazillion of them.

> Lg
>

Never ever use grease to hold a gasket in place
Bob