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BMW Clutch Issue



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 15th 07, 02:56 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
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Posts: 3,914
Default BMW Clutch Issue

1986 BMW 535i. I bought it a few years ago with a bad transmission and only
120k miles, and a friend of mine dropped an '83 junkyard transmission into it
and a new clutch. It's been running well, and I have slowly been cleaning
various things on it up.

Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is,
I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch
would remain engaged. I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple
times and the clutch would open properly again. It started happening now
and then, and then more and more often.

I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking,
on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it
to a respected BMW indy mechanic around here, who swore I did it wrong and
replaced the plunger again. Didn't fix anything. Replaced the whole master
cylinder. Didn't do anything. Changed the fluid and replaced the slave
cylinder. Still no go.

Now, I am assuming that there is no possibility of the line between the
two cylinders being an issue, and no backflow valve anywhere in the system.
Is this correct?

Recently it got worse, and I took it in to him again. At this point, we
figure it has to be something inside the transmission. He drops it, and
replaces everything that looks even a bit suspicious, namely the throwout
bearing release lever, the lever pin, the clutch release bearing, and
the shift bushings. Everything else looks clean, though neither one of us
could see how any one of these would cause the problem.

Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since
the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is
now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on
the highway.

Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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  #2  
Old June 15th 07, 03:46 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Nate Nagel[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,686
Default BMW Clutch Issue

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> 1986 BMW 535i. I bought it a few years ago with a bad transmission and only
> 120k miles, and a friend of mine dropped an '83 junkyard transmission into it
> and a new clutch. It's been running well, and I have slowly been cleaning
> various things on it up.
>
> Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is,
> I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch
> would remain engaged. I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple
> times and the clutch would open properly again. It started happening now
> and then, and then more and more often.
>
> I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking,
> on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it
> to a respected BMW indy mechanic around here, who swore I did it wrong and
> replaced the plunger again. Didn't fix anything. Replaced the whole master
> cylinder. Didn't do anything. Changed the fluid and replaced the slave
> cylinder. Still no go.
>
> Now, I am assuming that there is no possibility of the line between the
> two cylinders being an issue, and no backflow valve anywhere in the system.
> Is this correct?
>
> Recently it got worse, and I took it in to him again. At this point, we
> figure it has to be something inside the transmission. He drops it, and
> replaces everything that looks even a bit suspicious, namely the throwout
> bearing release lever, the lever pin, the clutch release bearing, and
> the shift bushings. Everything else looks clean, though neither one of us
> could see how any one of these would cause the problem.
>
> Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since
> the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is
> now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on
> the highway.
>
> Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue?
> --scott


slave?

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
  #3  
Old June 15th 07, 04:02 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
JoshIII
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 21
Default BMW Clutch Issue


"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message:
><skip>
> Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since
> the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is
> now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on
> the highway.
>
> Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this

issue?
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."



Gift (Answer) from JoshIII:
I have a friend that had exact same problem, on
about the same year and model as yours, i.e.
mid 80's 5-series with manual transmission.

We replaced the clutch master cylinder and
slave cylinder, but problem was still
apparent.

I determined the problem was
in the clutch pedal itself, and not
with the pressure plate or
throw out bearing sticking on the
transmission input shaft.

You can make this determination
just by loosening the two
nuts holding the slave cylinder
to the transmission
and pressing the clutch all the way
down to see if it sticks to floor again.

If pedal still sticks to the floor, *AND*
the slave cylinder is still under load with
tension from the clutch pressure
plate springs, then you know your
problem is with the clutch pedal itself
and not the transmission.

Next, I got on my back underneath his
steering column to see how the
clutch pedal linkage works.

If you notice there is a spring
loaded hinged linkage that
connects between the
clutch pedal and the firewall
(doing this from memory).

Seems like I remember
the clutch master
cylinder plunger connects directly
to the clutch pedal.

Anyway, this linkage should
have a little coil spring on it
that compresses when you
press your clutch pedal.

If you notice the little coil
spring also has an adjustment
nut and a lock nut on it.

Loosen these two nuts
as far out as you can, and still
are able to make the lock
nut lock on the threads.

The way the clutch pedal linkage
is designed, the linkage rotates
past top dead center when
the clutch pedal is fully
pressed down, and will
not allow pedal to come back up.

There should be an adjustment
to the linkage itself, but there is not.
The only other simple alternative
is to loosen the coil spring tension
nuts as described above.

This *should* resolve your problem.

It did on my friend's
mid 80's 5-series BMW.

Please post result in this newsgroup.

Hope this helps resolve your problem!

JoshIII
upstate south carolina
josh3i at hotmail . com




  #4  
Old June 15th 07, 03:00 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,914
Default BMW Clutch Issue

Nate Nagel > wrote:
>>
>> Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue?

>
>slave?


Replaced it, also (and I forgot to mention it) replaced the pedal assembly.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #5  
Old June 15th 07, 05:43 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
jim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 546
Default BMW Clutch Issue



Scott Dorsey wrote:

>
> Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is,
> I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch
> would remain engaged.


Can't tell what "clutch remains engaged" means? Does that mean the
transmission is engaged or does it mean the opposite? If it means the
former it is pretty evident that the hydraulics have failed. If it means
the latter then there is no clear indication of a problem with the
hydraulics and the mechanical linkage would likely be the problem.

> I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple
> times and the clutch would open properly again.


What does "clutch would open properly" mean. If you don't do the pumping
thing then the transmission will remain engaged? or remain disengaged?
or what?


>It started happening now
> and then, and then more and more often.
>


Has your mechanic actually been able to reproduce the problem or is he
going only by your description of the problem? If he has seen the car
when the problem exists I would take it to another mechanic.

-jim


> I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking,
> on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it
> to a respected BMW indy mechanic around here, who swore I did it wrong and
> replaced the plunger again. Didn't fix anything. Replaced the whole master
> cylinder. Didn't do anything. Changed the fluid and replaced the slave
> cylinder. Still no go.
>
> Now, I am assuming that there is no possibility of the line between the
> two cylinders being an issue, and no backflow valve anywhere in the system.
> Is this correct?
>
> Recently it got worse, and I took it in to him again. At this point, we
> figure it has to be something inside the transmission. He drops it, and
> replaces everything that looks even a bit suspicious, namely the throwout
> bearing release lever, the lever pin, the clutch release bearing, and
> the shift bushings. Everything else looks clean, though neither one of us
> could see how any one of these would cause the problem.
>
> Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since
> the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is
> now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on
> the highway.
>
> Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue?
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."


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  #6  
Old June 15th 07, 07:19 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,914
Default BMW Clutch Issue

In article >,
jim > wrote:
>
>
>Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
>>
>> Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is,
>> I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch
>> would remain engaged.

>
>Can't tell what "clutch remains engaged" means? Does that mean the
>transmission is engaged or does it mean the opposite? If it means the
>former it is pretty evident that the hydraulics have failed. If it means
>the latter then there is no clear indication of a problem with the
>hydraulics and the mechanical linkage would likely be the problem.


It means the former. But all of the hydraulics have been replaced. I
don't see anything else that can be replaced. I do not see any sort of
check valve anywhere that could be leaking, either.

>> I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple
>> times and the clutch would open properly again.

>
>What does "clutch would open properly" mean. If you don't do the pumping
>thing then the transmission will remain engaged? or remain disengaged?
>or what?


It will remain engaged, with the pedal stuck to the floor, which is bad.

>>It started happening now
>> and then, and then more and more often.

>
>Has your mechanic actually been able to reproduce the problem or is he
>going only by your description of the problem? If he has seen the car
>when the problem exists I would take it to another mechanic.


He has been able to reproduce it while driving but not up on the lift.
I am annoyed that he has been trying to fix the problem by swapping things
out, but by the same token everything has BEEN swapped out at this point.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #7  
Old June 15th 07, 08:07 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Bill[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 169
Default BMW Clutch Issue

Clutch system is not bled properly. If the hardware is there, and new, the
fluid is good, then it can ONLY be that the system is not bled, i.e. there
is air in the line. Clutch hydraulics are as simple as it gets, folks.

Get an auto box.

Bill in Omaha
'86 535i


  #8  
Old June 15th 07, 09:07 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Scott Dorsey
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,914
Default BMW Clutch Issue

Bill > wrote:
>Clutch system is not bled properly. If the hardware is there, and new, the
>fluid is good, then it can ONLY be that the system is not bled, i.e. there
>is air in the line.


That would make perfect sense, and the fact that it is okay when cold but
undrivable when hot correllates well with the air in the line diagnosis.
BUT, the system has been bled many many times at this point. I cannot imagine
there is still any air in it.

>Clutch hydraulics are as simple as it gets, folks.


Agreed and that is what makes this so frustrating.

>Get an auto box.


Now, when THOSE fail, you just buy a new car....
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
  #9  
Old June 15th 07, 09:23 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
Bob Smitter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 124
Default BMW Clutch Issue

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote:

>>Clutch hydraulics are as simple as it gets, folks.

>
> Agreed and that is what makes this so frustrating.


You didn't hear this from me, Sctoo, but maybe it is time
to let Casey look at it.

Bob


  #10  
Old June 15th 07, 10:46 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,alt.autos.bmw
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 350
Default BMW Clutch Issue

On 14 Jun 2007 21:56:59 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>1986 BMW 535i. I bought it a few years ago with a bad transmission and only
>120k miles, and a friend of mine dropped an '83 junkyard transmission into it
>and a new clutch. It's been running well, and I have slowly been cleaning
>various things on it up.
>
>Starting around 220,000 miles, the clutch began sticking closed. That is,
>I'd put my foot down, the pedal would stick to the ground, and the clutch
>would remain engaged. I could pull the pedal up and pump it down a couple
>times and the clutch would open properly again. It started happening now
>and then, and then more and more often.
>
>I replaced the plunger on the clutch master cylinder, which was leaking,
>on the suspicion the seal in it was bad. Didn't fix anything. Took it
>to a respected BMW indy mechanic around here, who swore I did it wrong and
>replaced the plunger again. Didn't fix anything. Replaced the whole master
>cylinder. Didn't do anything. Changed the fluid and replaced the slave
>cylinder. Still no go.
>
>Now, I am assuming that there is no possibility of the line between the
>two cylinders being an issue, and no backflow valve anywhere in the system.
>Is this correct?
>
>Recently it got worse, and I took it in to him again. At this point, we
>figure it has to be something inside the transmission. He drops it, and
>replaces everything that looks even a bit suspicious, namely the throwout
>bearing release lever, the lever pin, the clutch release bearing, and
>the shift bushings. Everything else looks clean, though neither one of us
>could see how any one of these would cause the problem.
>
>Putting the thing back together, the problem is now actually worse, since
>the friction point is closer to the floor than it was before. The car is
>now doing it almost all the time, making it impossible to drive except on
>the highway.
>
>Help! Anybody have any suggestions about what could be causing this issue?
>--scott


Long shot here but is the clutch housing exactly the same depth as the original.
If deeper then the clutch springs may be going over centre and dropping off the
slider/retaining springs/clips.

Just a thought.
 




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