Good GM/Bad GM

edward ohare wrote:

> When most of them start
> promoting products on their virtues, not on how cheap they'll sell
> them, is when you know capacity is in line.

I'm trying to think of one consumer product (not just cars, anything at
all) where this is done today. One possible exception would be high end
mechanics' tools like Snap-On etc. but they tell me that Snap-On is
really riding on reputation these days (I wouldn't know; I don't have
enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
stuff I find at yard sales...)

nate

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Clams Canino wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
>> stuff I find at yard sales...)
>
> Which reminds me... Hear and record this prophesy for all time on the
> mighty internets.
>
> Before it's "too late" the Sears/Kmart combo outta completely dismantle
> itself ,all the way down to a new chain of small stores selling only
> Craftsman and Kenmore brand products.
> (That's where they have some credibility and brand recognition left.)
>
> OR they can keep beating thier head agaist the brick Wal-Mart until they
> lose too much blood to recover anything at all. PRIDE and arrogance will
> keep them from doing anything drastic until it's too late for them too, but
> upper management will get out with a golden parachute.
> Remember well these words of doom.
>
> -W

Might be too late even for that. Was shopping for a new icebox
recently; dragged the girlie to Sears just because a) it's open late
(convenient for those with Real Jobs(tm)) and b) I wasn't going to buy
anything on the spot, just wanted to get a feel for what features she
thought were a "must have" and what she thought was just a luxury.

Turns out that she really wanted a french door, bottom freezer fridge.
OK, they're expensive, but it's one of those purchases you make every 20
years or so, so might as well cough up the ducats and get what you want,
otherwise you might as well just buy something cheap on craigslist,
you'll like it just as much.

So anyway, the point I was going to make was that all of the
Kenmore-branded french door fridges are made by LG. You want to see
some real horror stories, just DAGS for user reviews of LG fridges. We
bought a GE at a local appliance store, and other than having to remove
a cabinet in the kitchen (and therefore some patching and painting was
in order) and running a water line for the icemaker (there never was a
fridge with an icemaker in the house before, apparently) haven't had an
issue with it yet. (touch wood, it's been in less than a month.)

nate

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Nate Nagel wrote:
> edward ohare wrote:
>
>> When most of them start
>> promoting products on their virtues, not on how cheap they'll sell
>> them, is when you know capacity is in line.
>
> I'm trying to think of one consumer product (not just cars, anything at
> all) where this is done today. One possible exception would be high end
> mechanics' tools like Snap-On etc. but they tell me that Snap-On is
> really riding on reputation these days (I wouldn't know; I don't have
> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
> stuff I find at yard sales...)
>
> nate
>

Have you visited an Apple Store in the last
three years ?

--
pj

pj wrote:
> Nate Nagel wrote:
>> edward ohare wrote:
>>
>>> When most of them start
>>> promoting products on their virtues, not on how cheap they'll sell
>>> them, is when you know capacity is in line.
>>
>> I'm trying to think of one consumer product (not just cars, anything
>> at all) where this is done today. One possible exception would be
>> high end mechanics' tools like Snap-On etc. but they tell me that
>> Snap-On is really riding on reputation these days (I wouldn't know; I
>> don't have enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and
>> whatever good stuff I find at yard sales...)
>>
>> nate
>>
>
> Have you visited an Apple Store in the last three years ?
>

Can't say as I have, no. No real need to...

nate

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On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:56:50 -0500, "Clams Canino"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...
>
>> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
>> stuff I find at yard sales...)
>
>Which reminds me... Hear and record this prophesy for all time on the
>mighty internets.
>
>Before it's "too late" the Sears/Kmart combo outta completely dismantle
>itself ,all the way down to a new chain of small stores selling only
>Craftsman and Kenmore brand products.
>(That's where they have some credibility and brand recognition left.)
>
Too late. The Kenmore name is pretty much shot.
Read the reviews on the net, including the Sears web site.
Don't have a review there, but my 4 year old Kenmore fridge started
banging loudly on compressor shutdown a few months ago.
Whirlpool made.
Had a hard time finding a well-reviewed washing machine when my 30
year old Kenmore gave up the ghost.
Went with a GE, but felt compelled to buy a warranty because of some
nightmare reviews.

--Vic

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:04:56 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>edward ohare wrote:
>
>> When most of them start
>> promoting products on their virtues, not on how cheap they'll sell
>> them, is when you know capacity is in line.
>
>I'm trying to think of one consumer product (not just cars, anything at
>all) where this is done today. One possible exception would be high end
>mechanics' tools like Snap-On etc. but they tell me that Snap-On is
>really riding on reputation these days (I wouldn't know; I don't have
>enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
>stuff I find at yard sales...)


Short quick list

Mobile phones.

Apple products.

Corelle.

Verizon Wireless

H & R Block.

"Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
...

> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
> stuff I find at yard sales...)

Which reminds me... Hear and record this prophesy for all time on the
mighty internets.

Before it's "too late" the Sears/Kmart combo outta completely dismantle
itself ,all the way down to a new chain of small stores selling only
Craftsman and Kenmore brand products.
(That's where they have some credibility and brand recognition left.)

OR they can keep beating thier head agaist the brick Wal-Mart until they
lose too much blood to recover anything at all. PRIDE and arrogance will
keep them from doing anything drastic until it's too late for them too, but
upper management will get out with a golden parachute.
Remember well these words of doom.

-W

edward ohare wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 19:04:56 -0400, Nate Nagel >
> wrote:
>
>> edward ohare wrote:
>>
>>> When most of them start
>>> promoting products on their virtues, not on how cheap they'll sell
>>> them, is when you know capacity is in line.
>> I'm trying to think of one consumer product (not just cars, anything at
>> all) where this is done today. One possible exception would be high end
>> mechanics' tools like Snap-On etc. but they tell me that Snap-On is
>> really riding on reputation these days (I wouldn't know; I don't have
>> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
>> stuff I find at yard sales...)
>
>
> Short quick list
>
> Mobile phones.

I've yet to find a "quality" one! That includes such vaunted brands as
Motorola... I still have to use a headset if I want to hear someone
talking to me on my Razr in an only moderately noisy environment. Plus
batteries only seem to last a year or so.

>
> Apple products.
>

Don't have any, haven't noticed any ads promoting quality.

> Corelle.
>


Don't have any, haven't noticed any ads promoting quality.

> Verizon Wireless
>

Well, if their wireless service is anything like their land line
service, I'd have to disagree with this one. I've never become so
****ed off at one single company the way I got ****ed off with Verizon.
I passed on fios when it came to my neighborhood because I simply
associated the name "Verizon" with "doesn't work" and "incredibly
incompetent customer service" based on at least three different
experiences at three different addresses. Certainly wouldn't consider
their wireless either, because of the **** poor experiences I've had
with their land line people. They are the primary, and really only
reason that I never bothered to get the phone turned on the last time I
moved. Why should I pay someone exorbitant amounts of money for the
promise of a service that doesn't actually work? I can keep the money
and still not have that service.

> H & R Block.

No experience there, either, but if I'm supposed to have an association
of quality with the name from their advertising, they've failed, because
any ads I may have seen or heard from them in the last... whenever...
have been apparently completely forgettable.

nate


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replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
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"Clams Canino" > wrote in message
m...
>
>
> "Nate Nagel" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> enough disposable $$$ to buy anything but Crapsman and whatever good
>> stuff I find at yard sales...)
>
> Which reminds me... Hear and record this prophesy for all time on the
> mighty internets.
>
> Before it's "too late" the Sears/Kmart combo outta completely dismantle
> itself ,all the way down to a new chain of small stores selling only
> Craftsman and Kenmore brand products.
> (That's where they have some credibility and brand recognition left.)
>
> OR they can keep beating thier head agaist the brick Wal-Mart until they
> lose too much blood to recover anything at all. PRIDE and arrogance will
> keep them from doing anything drastic until it's too late for them too,
> but
> upper management will get out with a golden parachute.
> Remember well these words of doom.
>
> -W
>
>
>
>

Could have told you that in 1982. I worked for K-mart in 1979-80 and
started working for Wal-mart in late 1981. Wal-mart was small back then but
gunning for the big time. K-mart had already adopted the brick-wall
attitude even back then. "We're number 1 and we'll always be number 1".
Who are these Wal-mart rednecks anyway?

That is exactly what is wrong with GM/Ford/Crapsler. If Bill Durant or
Henry Ford or Walter P Chrysler could see what has been done to their
companies, they'd fire the whole lot of the 'golden parachute' crowd,
without the parachutes. The group would be singing "Gory, Gory, what a
helluva way to die, and he ain't gonna jump no more".

Charles Grozny

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:04:23 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

I wasn't asking for your consumer experiences on the items or whether
you remembered any ads, but was just pointing out products that are
sold based primarily on statements about their virtue rather than a
mad scamble to convince people they're the cheapest products of the
type in a market where price is the main issue. Apple doesn't have me
convinced, but that doesn't change the fact product virtues are what
they sell and enough people agree that they're profitable.