Basic Horsepower Upgrades

On 2005-10-28, Dave > wrote:
> In article > , "Dan Fraser" > wrote:
>>I was trying to decide between the Miata and a Mustang. If you really want a
>>lot of power (and are willing to blow it out your pipe at $3.00 a gallon)
>>you should have bought a Mustang.
>
> What if he wants the Miata's handling, but with more power??

Miata with FAI.

--
Grant Edwards grante Yow! I brought my BOWLING
at BALL -- and some DRUGS!!
visi.com

In article >,
XS11E > wrote:

> (Dave) wrote in
> :
>
> > In article > ,
> > "Dan Fraser" > wrote:
> >>I was trying to decide between the Miata and a Mustang. If you
> >>really want a lot of power (and are willing to blow it out your
> >>pipe at $3.00 a gallon) you should have bought a Mustang.
> >
> > What if he wants the Miata's handling, but with more power??
>
> He won't get it with a Mustang. They're great cars and I planned on
> buying one before I got my Miata but handling is NOT what they do well!

I don't know that I agree with that. If you know how to drive and if you
have the right Mustang, the pony handles extremely well.

Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata comes
out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of turns.

Hard choice, if I had to pick one over the other. Probably the Mustang
but not by much.

Rick Rikoski

'92 Miata
'01 Mustang Bullitt
'01 BMW 330XI

wrote in
:

> In article >,
> XS11E > wrote:

>> He won't get it with a Mustang. They're great cars and I planned
>> on buying one before I got my Miata but handling is NOT what they
>> do well!
>
> I don't know that I agree with that. If you know how to drive and
> if you have the right Mustang, the pony handles extremely well.

Not by comparison.

> Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata
> comes out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of
> turns.

Sure you can.

> Hard choice, if I had to pick one over the other. Probably the
> Mustang but not by much.

It was a very easy choice for me! Miata = 1, Mustang = 0

I like the Mustang VERY much (except the new ones which have been
beaten severely with an ugly stick) but the Miata is MUCH more what I
want, a sports car, not a Falcon convertible! <GD&RLH!>

wrote:

> I don't know that I agree with that. If you know how to drive and if you
> have the right Mustang, the pony handles extremely well.

Compared to a truck perhaps. Compared to a properly setup miata, never.

> Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata comes
> out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of turns.

It's called power to weight. The Lotus Elise has a tiny engine and not
too much horsepower, but it will blow away a Mustang badly in any
situation that involves corners. You need those cubes when your car
weighs that much.
Add forced induction to the miata and the power to weight ratios get
much closer, with the miata possibly having the advantage over the Mustang.

> Hard choice, if I had to pick one over the other. Probably the Mustang
> but not by much.

Nice to have the option to choose anyway. I am a lot more interested in
that Beemer than the Pony car. :-)

>
> Rick Rikoski
>
> '92 Miata
> '01 Mustang Bullitt
> '01 BMW 330XI

Pat

In article >,
wrote:

> Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata comes
> out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of turns.

My condolences, Rick, that your roads aren't curvy enough. I had a lot
of fun in the deep Ozarks one afternoon with a late-model Z28 (handles
much better than a Mustang), who was obviously surprised that I kept
reappearing in his mirror before the start of every straight. We had a
good old time for about 20 miles, then he turned off with a honk and a
friendly wave.

--
Lanny Chambers
'94C, St. Louis
http://www.hummingbirds.net/alignment.html

On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 23:21:27 GMT, wrote in
:

> I don't know that I agree with that. If you know how to drive and if
> you have the right Mustang, the pony handles extremely well.
>
> Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata comes
> out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of turns.



I'm not sure who to believe then, the Jim Russell instructor
who took me for laps in the sponsor supplied Mustang around
Mt. Tremblant at ten tenths, or yourself. The entire time he
was grumbling about how poorly the car handled.
Even with the multitude of shock absorbers trying in vain to
stabilize the rear axle.

I also know an instructor who regularily embarrasses big
'cube' cars on the track with his little 'cube' Miata.
He also owns a Mustang as a winter beater.

There's certainly lots of fun to be had with gobs of torque
and a solid rear axle, but it's not the same kind of fun
you can have in a Miata.

In article >, pws > wrote:
wrote:

>> Besides, the Mustang will be in the next county before the Miata comes
>> out of the turn. Can't beat cubes, especially coming out of turns.
>
>It's called power to weight. The Lotus Elise has a tiny engine and not
>too much horsepower, but it will blow away a Mustang badly in any
>situation that involves corners. You need those cubes when your car
>weighs that much.


Wow, this thread gets another life!

Hey, I'm a Miata owner. I'm a fan of lightweight sports cars with
feel. That's why I have the Miata. I don't care that much about
big time hp numbers, but ...

Sometimes I think Miata owners live in their own private world.
Keep repeating the mantra of how great a handling car the Miata is.
Cite many stories of sticking with all sorts of sports cars in the
twisties or at some track day.

Get real. Primary factor is the driver. Both in skill and, in the
case of public road anecdotes, balls/stupidity. But most any track
test (not including auto-X) will show that "better handling" only
makes up for so much. Given an equal driver, power/weight has a
decided advantage.

And weight aside, the 300 hp Mustang still has a significant
power/weight advantage over our Miata. So, back to the power
upgrades ...

Dave wrote:


> Wow, this thread gets another life!

Of course.

> Hey, I'm a Miata owner. I'm a fan of lightweight sports cars with
> feel. That's why I have the Miata. I don't care that much about
> big time hp numbers, but ...
>
> Sometimes I think Miata owners live in their own private world.
> Keep repeating the mantra of how great a handling car the Miata is.
> Cite many stories of sticking with all sorts of sports cars in the
> twisties or at some track day.

My own private world? I mentioned the Elise, I am obviously aware of
other cars out there. The miata is one of the best-handling
mass-produced cars ever made, that is not a mantra, it is a fact. It
certainly handles far better than that Mustang.

> Get real. Primary factor is the driver.

Of course it is, to a limit. Put Jeff Gordon in a beat-up old Toyota
Tercel and me in a new Corvette, though, and I have a feeling I am going
to win the race.
Will a good driver in a Mustang beat a poor driver in a miata on a
twisty track? Of course they will. That is obvious.

Both in skill and, in the
> case of public road anecdotes, balls/stupidity. But most any track
> test (not including auto-X) will show that "better handling" only
> makes up for so much. Given an equal driver, power/weight has a
> decided advantage.

I agree that the power is an advantage, but how does the weight help?
>
> And weight aside, the 300 hp Mustang still has a significant
> power/weight advantage over our Miata. So, back to the power
> upgrades ...

The power upgrades make the miata a very fast car without destroying the
handling. There are suspension upgrades for the Mustang, but nothing
that will make it handle *well* compared to cars like the miata that are
both lightweight and use modern technology for their suspensions.

Pat

I like my Miata but in the 13 years that I have owned it, I have also
owned other cars that on a daily basis I preferred to drive. Like my
former VW Corrado SLC.

The Miata is actually a rather slow car which has outstanding weight
balance and a well-designed suspension.

Within its limitations, it handles well enough but on two-lane roads has
little margin to complete a blind pass.

That "handling through the turns business" is mostly done at 35 to 55
mph, yes? What's up with that?

All of this is in dry weather conditions, anyway. The Miata, like the
Bullitt is useless in the winter without snow tires. And even then would
be no better off than a Taurus with snow times. Actually the Taurus
being front wheel drive would probably come out ahead.

I park both the Miata and the Mustang in the garage for the Winter and
wait for warmer times.

wrote:

>
> The Miata is actually a rather slow car which has outstanding weight
> balance and a well-designed suspension.
>
> Within its limitations, it handles well enough but on two-lane roads has
> little margin to complete a blind pass.

The miata can be driven fast even without horsepower upgrades, but you
are correct, a stock one is not going to accelerate very quickly.

Put 12 pounds of boost on that engine and then tell me it is a slow car.
It can get downright scary, and I almost never need to push the gas
pedal down all the way, passing or not.

Pat