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Cost of repair Audi BMW Saab...(crossposting)



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 12th 04, 06:44 PM
Dave Hinz
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On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:03:51 -0400, Fred W. <Fred.Wills@allspam> wrote:
>
> Hmmm, trailing throttle oversteer... just another tool in the driver's
> toolbox, no? What better way to get that back end around the corner in a
> hurry? ;-)


"left foot braking", anyone? Fun technique in a Saab, is to keep on
the gas, hit the brakes with your left foot, and let the back end
slide to where you want it. Makes going around corners on snow/ice
much more fun and exciting, and with practice you can get some great
speed improvements.

Dave Hinz

Ads
  #12  
Old May 12th 04, 10:38 PM
Dori A Schmetterling
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In what town are you in? Randstad...?...

DAS
--
For direct contact replace nospam with schmetterling
---

"Peter Bozz" > wrote in message
...
> Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
> > At least in Germany seeing lots of BMWs and Mercs is no illusion! They

are
> > top sellers:
> > http://www.kfz-auskunft.de/kfz/pkw_n...ngen_2003.html
> >
> > In the Netherlands I seem to see Mercs on every corner...
> >
> > DAS

>
> A short drive around where I live revealed 8 Mercs. Now,
> it's no Beverly Hills, just a fairly affluent neighborhood of
> a big Dutch city (actually, I crossed over into the affluent
> neighborhood from the not-so-affluent part of town I live in).
> There were a couple of Saabs and a few of the ubiquitous V40/V70
> Volvos. I counted 6 BMWs and at least one A6, two A4s, a Jaguar XJ
> and a Lexus LS400. Most of the Mercs were of course C series. I
> didn't count the CLK Cabrio my local drug dealer drives: he's
> hardly representative of the general population and might
> skew my empirical data. I guestimate that I must have seen about
> 500 cars.
>
> Most people here seem to have a, shall we say, predilection for spacious
> MPV type of cars, mostly uninspiring brands I coudn't even tell apart.
> Think Ford, Opel, Peugeot, Fiat, some Japanese and Korean brands,
> whatever.
>
> I wonder, what city was it that you say you saw Mercs on
> every corner?
>
> Peter
>



  #13  
Old May 13th 04, 12:22 AM
dizzy
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On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:22:28 +0200, "JP Roberts" >
wrote:

>I think it is precisely BMW that produce the most efficient petrol engines
>available, given similar power figures.


Do they? 330i: 225HP, 20/28 with automatic. Honda Accord: 240HP,
21/30 with automatic.

  #15  
Old May 13th 04, 07:27 AM
Peter Bozz
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Dori A Schmetterling wrote:
> In what town are you in? Randstad...?...
>
> DAS


I'm in the Randstad, yes.
Admittedly, not the best place to live in.

  #16  
Old May 13th 04, 03:22 PM
eBob.com
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That's interesting. Since all of the brands of cars which I have owned have
had them, I just assumed ...

Anyway, how 'bout educating me on two things. Just exactly what do timing
belts do? (Yes, I am pretty dumb in this area.) And what do the BMWs w/o
timing belts have which perform that function?

Thanks, Bob

"C.R. Krieger" > wrote in message
om...
> "eBob.com" > wrote in message

v.net>...
> >
> > I had a '95 A6(2.8)Q wagon
> > The timing belts have been somewhat expensive as I recall, but every
> > car needs that at rougly 60K.

>
> Not if they don't *have* them. Most BMWs don't.
> --
> C.R. Krieger
> (Been there; drove that)
>



  #17  
Old May 13th 04, 03:49 PM
Dave Plowman
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In article > ,
eBob.com > wrote:
> Anyway, how 'bout educating me on two things. Just exactly what do
> timing belts do?


Better name is cam belt - as it drives the camshaft. It may well drive
other things as well like the waterpump on some designs.

> (Yes, I am pretty dumb in this area.) And what do the
> BMWs w/o timing belts have which perform that function?


They went back to chains with the twin cam engines. The rubber band to
drive the camshaft didn't arrive - globally - until about '70 - before
that most used chains, although there were other ways.

--
*Why is the word abbreviation so long?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn
  #18  
Old May 13th 04, 03:55 PM
Walt Kienzle
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"eBob.com" > wrote in message
. net...
> That's interesting. Since all of the brands of cars which I have owned

have
> had them, I just assumed ...
>
> Anyway, how 'bout educating me on two things. Just exactly what do timing
> belts do? (Yes, I am pretty dumb in this area.) And what do the BMWs w/o
> timing belts have which perform that function?
>
> Thanks, Bob
>


Bob,

Timing belts operate the "overhead cams", which are the things that open and
close the valves that let fuel and air into each cylinder of the engine (the
"intake valves") and let the exhaust out of the cylinders ("exhaust
valves"). The valves need to open and close in sync with the operation of
the pistons and the rest of what is going on in the engine. In some cars
this is done using a belt. Belts are quieter and (usually) less expensive,
but less durable than the alternative of using a chain. Some engines with a
timing chain can be almost as quiet as those with a belt, but it has to be
carefully engineered. Chains can wear too, and when that happens they tend
to get very noisy. Belts usually give no notice that they are about to
break like a wearing chain does. The problem is when the belt or chain
breaks, the engine stops. In some engines, the pistons keep moving for a
few seconds - just long enough to crash into the now stopped valves which
potentially destroys the engine (this is known as an "interference" engine).
Other engines are designed so that there is still enough room so that the
valves and pistons don't crash together when this happens (this is a
"non-interference" engine).

Some engines based on older designs don't use belts or chains, but they
usually only have two valves per cylinder (one intake and one exhaust)
instead of the typical four valves per cylinder that modern (and usually
more efficient), overhead cam design engines allow. (Some of the preceding
is personal opinion.)

Walt Kienzle




  #19  
Old May 13th 04, 03:59 PM
Fred W.
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"dizzy" > wrote in message
news
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 23:22:28 +0200, "JP Roberts" >
> wrote:
>
> >I think it is precisely BMW that produce the most efficient petrol

engines
> >available, given similar power figures.

>
> Do they? 330i: 225HP, 20/28 with automatic. Honda Accord: 240HP,
> 21/30 with automatic.
>


I do not think HP is a very good indicator of engine efficiency, do you?
And mpg will only work if the two cars the engines are in are the same (of
the same weight and coefficient of drag).

-Fred


  #20  
Old May 13th 04, 04:10 PM
Dave Hinz
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On Thu, 13 May 2004 14:22:37 GMT, eBob.com > wrote:
>
> Anyway, how 'bout educating me on two things. Just exactly what do timing
> belts do? (Yes, I am pretty dumb in this area.) And what do the BMWs w/o
> timing belts have which perform that function?


Timing belts go from the crankshaft to the camshaft(s), turning the cams
to open and close the valves at the appropriate times. Some cars use
timing belts, and are subject to frequent replacements, expensive
probelms if the belts break, and so on. They are quieter, though.

Other cars, such as most (all non-V6) Saab engines and apparently some
BMW engines, use a timing chain rather than a belt. It will wear and
stretch over a few hundred thousand miles, but catastrophic failures of
timing chains are very rare...they usually get very rattly for a very
long time before anything goes wrong, giving the driver plenty of time
(months) to do something about it.

Earlier, Saab used timing gears in the V4 engines, which were again
noisier than a rubber band (oops, "belt") but give more positive
and reliable timing.

I don't know which Audi uses, but I personally will avoid any engine
with timing belts. Internal engine components, which you can't visually
inspect, aren't something I'm willing to put up with.

Dave Hinz

 




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