Can I change the freeze plugs on a 4.9L without removing the engine?

"Nehmo" > wrote in message
...
> 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>
> I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
> owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
> vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>
> After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
> sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
> (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
> one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
> cap; this is probably because the former user misplaced the cap
> because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
> pressurize the cooling system.)
>
> The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
> possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
> wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
> removing the engine?
>

It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
possible in your case.

If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.

On Sep 13, 2:38*pm, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:
> "Nehmo" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>
> > I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
> > owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
> > vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>
> > After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
> > sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
> > (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
> > one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
> > cap; this is probably *because the former user misplaced the cap
> > because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
> > pressurize the cooling system.)
>
> > The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
> > possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
> > wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
> > removing the engine?
>
> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
> possible in your case.
>
> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.

From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
it. Why not?

~~ Nehmo

"Nehmo" > wrote in message
...
On Sep 13, 2:38 pm, "Jeff Strickland" > wrote:
> "Nehmo" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>
> > I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
> > owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
> > vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>
> > After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
> > sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
> > (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
> > one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
> > cap; this is probably because the former user misplaced the cap
> > because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
> > pressurize the cooling system.)
>
> > The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
> > possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
> > wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
> > removing the engine?
>
> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
> possible in your case.
>
> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.

From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
it. Why not?

~~ Nehmo


<JS>
No reason why not.

Keep in mind that removing the exhaust manifold is generally a difficult
job. Once in a while it's easy, but not very often.

Good luck, and keep the carnage to busted knuckles because busted bolts is
no fun at all.


</JS>

On 09/15/2010 03:43 PM, Nehmo wrote:
> On Sep 13, 2:38�pm, "Jeff > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>>
>>> I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
>>> owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
>>> vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>>
>>> After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
>>> sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
>>> (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
>>> one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
>>> cap; this is probably �because the former user misplaced the cap
>>> because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
>>> pressurize the cooling system.)
>>
>>> The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
>>> possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
>>> wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
>>> removing the engine?
>>
>> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
>> possible in your case.
>>
>> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
>> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.
>
> From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
> But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
> possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
> something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
> are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
> it. Why not?
>
> ~~ Nehmo

iow, "nobody told me what i wanted to hear, so i'm going to do what i
wanted to do before i asked the question".

bottom line - freeze plugs only leak if there's a serious problem. just
because you've spent some money doesn't mean you have to go spend a
bunch more. figure out what you're dealing with before you invest
another cent on this thing. if you don't have the experience to figure
it out, find someone who does.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

In article >,
says...
>
> On 09/15/2010 03:43 PM, Nehmo wrote:
> > On Sep 13, 2:38?pm, "Jeff > wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
> >>
> >> ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
> >>
> >>> I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
> >>> owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
> >>> vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
> >>
> >>> After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
> >>> sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
> >>> (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
> >>> one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
> >>> cap; this is probably ?because the former user misplaced the cap
> >>> because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
> >>> pressurize the cooling system.)
> >>
> >>> The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
> >>> possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
> >>> wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
> >>> removing the engine?
> >>
> >> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
> >> possible in your case.
> >>
> >> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
> >> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.
> >
> > From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
> > But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
> > possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
> > something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
> > are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
> > it. Why not?
> >
> > ~~ Nehmo
>
> iow, "nobody told me what i wanted to hear, so i'm going to do what i
> wanted to do before i asked the question".
>

No.
Nobody here knew how best to replace the freeze plugs on that truck.
That includes you.
He's going after it without your advice, which was worthless anyway.
One minute into it he'll know more about how to replace the freeze plugs
in that that truck than you can dream of.
Then maybe he can advise the next guy who asks.

> bottom line - freeze plugs only leak if there's a serious problem. just
> because you've spent some money doesn't mean you have to go spend a
> bunch more. figure out what you're dealing with before you invest
> another cent on this thing. if you don't have the experience to figure
> it out, find someone who does.

The only "serious problem" mentioned here is one or more thin metal
freezes plug have rusted and are leaking.
That's his "serious problem."
It's common enough when the coolant isn't kept up to snuff.
He already said the thing was poorly maintained.
If he replaces the plugs and keeps a 50/50 mix he'll be fine with his
serious problem.
You got the "serious problems" all ass-backward.
Or maybe you want to invent problems that don't exist, and nobody else
mentioned.

On 09/15/2010 09:08 PM, Bob Cooper wrote:
> In >,
> says...
>>
>> On 09/15/2010 03:43 PM, Nehmo wrote:
>>> On Sep 13, 2:38?pm, "Jeff > wrote:
>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>>>>
>>>>> I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
>>>>> owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
>>>>> vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>>>>
>>>>> After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
>>>>> sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
>>>>> (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
>>>>> one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
>>>>> cap; this is probably ?because the former user misplaced the cap
>>>>> because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
>>>>> pressurize the cooling system.)
>>>>
>>>>> The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
>>>>> possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
>>>>> wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
>>>>> removing the engine?
>>>>
>>>> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
>>>> possible in your case.
>>>>
>>>> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
>>>> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.
>>>
>>> From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
>>> But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
>>> possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
>>> something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
>>> are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
>>> it. Why not?
>>>
>>> ~~ Nehmo
>>
>> iow, "nobody told me what i wanted to hear, so i'm going to do what i
>> wanted to do before i asked the question".
>>
>
> No.
> Nobody here knew how best to replace the freeze plugs on that truck.
> That includes you.

untrue - don't put false words in my mouth.


> He's going after it without your advice, which was worthless anyway.
> One minute into it he'll know more about how to replace the freeze plugs
> in that that truck than you can dream of.
> Then maybe he can advise the next guy who asks.

apparently you missed the bit about me not saying how to do replacement
for a reason.


>
>> bottom line - freeze plugs only leak if there's a serious problem. just
>> because you've spent some money doesn't mean you have to go spend a
>> bunch more. figure out what you're dealing with before you invest
>> another cent on this thing. if you don't have the experience to figure
>> it out, find someone who does.
>
> The only "serious problem" mentioned here is one or more thin metal
> freezes plug have rusted and are leaking.
> That's his "serious problem."
> It's common enough when the coolant isn't kept up to snuff.
> He already said the thing was poorly maintained.
> If he replaces the plugs and keeps a 50/50 mix he'll be fine with his
> serious problem.
> You got the "serious problems" all ass-backward.
> Or maybe you want to invent problems that don't exist, and nobody else
> mentioned.

ok, then when he reports back that the block is cracked and/or that a
piston is seized because of local heating caused by a blocked water
channel after years of the coolant not being "kept up to snuff", what
are you going to say? "oh, sorry, i wish i'd had more experience and
had bothered to assess the problem properly first", "uh, whoda thunkit"
or "just keep blindly spending money on it bud"?

fact: freeze plugs don't just leak unless there is a serious problem.

fact: every cent spent on not addressing that serious problem first is,
to use your own words, "ass-backward".

and i suspect you already knew that but just wanted to bitch.


--
nomina rutrum rutrum

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 21:47:35 -0700, jim beam > wrote:

>On 09/15/2010 09:08 PM, Bob Cooper wrote:
>> In >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> On 09/15/2010 03:43 PM, Nehmo wrote:
>>>> On Sep 13, 2:38?pm, "Jeff > wrote:
>>>>> > wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 1990 Ford F150 6 cyl 4.9L, or 300 cid, Fuel Injected Engine
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't have a clear understanding of the history of this truck. The
>>>>>> owner is offering it to me to use if I can fix it. I really need a
>>>>>> vehicle now for work, so I'm trying my best to get it going.
>>>>>
>>>>>> After doing a number of repairs to the truck, and getting it going
>>>>>> sort-of, I discovered two leaking freeze plugs, the front and the rear
>>>>>> (on this inline 6). The leaks are too large to ignore, and the rear
>>>>>> one pours directly on the starter. (The truck is missing the radiator
>>>>>> cap; this is probably ?because the former user misplaced the cap
>>>>>> because of constantly adding water, or he or she didn't want to
>>>>>> pressurize the cooling system.)
>>>>>
>>>>>> The freeze plugs are very hard to access. I'm not even sure it's even
>>>>>> possible to reach them with the engine still in the truck. So I'm
>>>>>> wondering, is it possible to change these freeze plugs without
>>>>>> removing the engine?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's possible, but you said you can't get at them, so it would not be
>>>>> possible in your case.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are careful, you can pry the old plugs out with a screw driver, but
>>>>> you need a clear shot with a hammer to tap the new one(s) into place.
>>>>
>>>> From my point of view, the job doesn't look like a walk in the park.
>>>> But sometimes someone will have done the exact job and found it
>>>> possible or reasonably possible. I was hoping for someone to say
>>>> something like "You just take off the exhaust man, and then the plug
>>>> are easy". That would have been encouraging. Well, I'm going to try
>>>> it. Why not?
>>>>
>>>> ~~ Nehmo
>>>
>>> iow, "nobody told me what i wanted to hear, so i'm going to do what i
>>> wanted to do before i asked the question".
>>>
>>
>> No.
>> Nobody here knew how best to replace the freeze plugs on that truck.
>> That includes you.
>
>untrue - don't put false words in my mouth.
>
>
>> He's going after it without your advice, which was worthless anyway.
>> One minute into it he'll know more about how to replace the freeze plugs
>> in that that truck than you can dream of.
>> Then maybe he can advise the next guy who asks.
>
>apparently you missed the bit about me not saying how to do replacement
>for a reason.
>
>
>>
>>> bottom line - freeze plugs only leak if there's a serious problem. just
>>> because you've spent some money doesn't mean you have to go spend a
>>> bunch more. figure out what you're dealing with before you invest
>>> another cent on this thing. if you don't have the experience to figure
>>> it out, find someone who does.
>>
>> The only "serious problem" mentioned here is one or more thin metal
>> freezes plug have rusted and are leaking.
>> That's his "serious problem."
>> It's common enough when the coolant isn't kept up to snuff.
>> He already said the thing was poorly maintained.
>> If he replaces the plugs and keeps a 50/50 mix he'll be fine with his
>> serious problem.
>> You got the "serious problems" all ass-backward.
>> Or maybe you want to invent problems that don't exist, and nobody else
>> mentioned.
>
>ok, then when he reports back that the block is cracked and/or that a
>piston is seized because of local heating caused by a blocked water
>channel after years of the coolant not being "kept up to snuff", what
>are you going to say? "oh, sorry, i wish i'd had more experience and
>had bothered to assess the problem properly first", "uh, whoda thunkit"
>or "just keep blindly spending money on it bud"?
>
>fact: freeze plugs don't just leak unless there is a serious problem.
>
>fact: every cent spent on not addressing that serious problem first is,
>to use your own words, "ass-backward".
>
>and i suspect you already knew that but just wanted to bitch.

In25 years as a working mechanic, and another20 sinse, I've replaced a
LOT of seeping front plugs (technically they are "core plugs" on lots
of engines - Most of which had been neglected - but some that actually
rusted from the OUTSIDE in, with no coolant quality issues.

A VERY small percentage had other problems related to the plug
failures that showed up later, making the replacement of the plugs a
waste of money and effort. (like head gaskets).
Unless they had been seriously overheated, cracked heads and blocks
were almost never an issue.

If he's talking about the plugs on the side of the block, removing the
manifold on a 300 inline six makes replacement pretty straight forward
- and don't waste your money on the rubber plugs.

When the old plugs are popped out is a good time to flush the crap out
of the bottom of the cooling jackets - and then clean up the bores of
the core-plug holes, coat the plugs with Permatex Gasket Sealer, and
pop the new plugs in.

When you have the manifold off, replace all the plugs you can reach.
For the $4 or whatever they are worth, don't leave the middle one and
chance having to pull it again. Before replacing the manifold, fill
with water and pressure test.

"Bob Cooper" > wrote in message
...
>
>> bottom line - freeze plugs only leak if there's a serious problem. just
>> because you've spent some money doesn't mean you have to go spend a
>> bunch more. figure out what you're dealing with before you invest
>> another cent on this thing. if you don't have the experience to figure
>> it out, find someone who does.
>
> The only "serious problem" mentioned here is one or more thin metal
> freezes plug have rusted and are leaking.
> That's his "serious problem."


.... and as problemg go, this one isn't really very serious. Freeze plugs
fail for two reasons, they are pushed out because the block froze, or they
rotted. If they are pushed out because the block froze, they are doing their
job, and by definition this isn't a "problem." It's more of a pain in the
ass than a serious problem.

Frankly, fixing the freeze plugs from the bottom of the motor is the easiest
way. Put the truck on a lift and work on it from underneath. There should be
no need to remove the exhaust manifold from the head, but it might be
necessary to take the exhaust pipe off of the manifold -- remove the muffler
bearing -- and move it out of the way.

I don't think that there is enough JB Weld in the universe to fix a freeze
plug leak.

Cooper is on the right track here, Beam has jumped the rails.

"jim beam" > wrote in message
t...
>
> fact: freeze plugs don't just leak unless there is a serious problem.
>

Now, the rest of the story ...

The FUNCTION of a freeze plug is to be the weak link in the event that the
coolant freezes. The plugs are supposed to be pushed out by the expansion of
frozen coolant. Freeze plugs can rot away or be pushed out, if they rot,
then the coolant really isn't coolant, it's water, and if they are pushed
out, again by freezing coolant that isn't really coolant, then they are
doing what they are designed to do. (Having just pointed my crroked little
finger at water, it's entirely possible that coolant/anti-freeze can
actually freeze, so perhaps the mixture of coolant and water is proper and
the freeze plugs leak anyway.)

Doing what the design intent is normally is not considered to be a problem.
You want frozen coolant to push the freeze plugs out because this is what
prevents the block from cracking, that's why there are freeze plugs in the
first place. I'm just saying ...

"Jeff Strickland" > wrote in message
...
>
> "jim beam" > wrote in message
> t...
>>
>> fact: freeze plugs don't just leak unless there is a serious problem.
>>
>
> Now, the rest of the story ...
>
> The FUNCTION of a freeze plug is to be the weak link in the event that the
> coolant freezes. The plugs are supposed to be pushed out by the expansion
> of frozen coolant. Freeze plugs can rot away or be pushed out, if they
> rot, then the coolant really isn't coolant, it's water, and if they are
> pushed out, again by freezing coolant that isn't really coolant, then they
> are doing what they are designed to do. (Having just pointed my crroked
> little finger at water, it's entirely possible that coolant/anti-freeze
> can actually freeze, so perhaps the mixture of coolant and water is proper
> and the freeze plugs leak anyway.)
>
>
> Doing what the design intent is normally is not considered to be a
> problem. You want frozen coolant to push the freeze plugs out because this
> is what prevents the block from cracking, that's why there are freeze
> plugs in the first place. I'm just saying ...


Not really. People call them "freeze plugs" but they are are in the block
becasue they are needed to provide a means of locating the interior portions
of the sand casting molds (i.e., the core) and to allow the sand to be
cleaned out of the interior passages after the casting cools and the core
has been reduced to sand by vibrationg the casting. I suppose at some point
in history in some engine the plugs used to seal these opening must have
been pushed out when water in the block froze, but for modern engines they
are not designed-in to prevent the block from being damaged by frozen
coolant. I think you'd have to be very lucky to have an engine "saved" from
freeze damage by the core plugs. I think in most cases, if forzen coolant
pushed out the core plugs, you'd likely have more significant damage. I've
only ever seen one block damaged by frozen water and the core plugs weren't
pushed out at all - the whole side of the block had been pushed out and
cracked.

Ed