'02 300M overheating now

The oil does need changing (just past the 3000 mile interval), and since
some say that removing the oil filter makes it easier to get at the
thermostat housing, I was planning to change the oil at the same time.
But I see no signs of moisture on the dipstick.

At this point I am NOT sure that the thermostat is OK, despite what my
neighbor and his buddy are saying.

The water pump should be OK, as it was replaced along with the timing
belt, etc., etc., about 25K miles ago.

On 08/10/12 09:33 pm, Rob wrote:
> this is the 3.5L just like mine. only difference was mine was first gen.
>
>
> never had any issues with the bleeding. filled it until coolant ran out that
> hose, with a small amount of coolant in the catch bucket to cover the end of
> the hose so it didn't suck any air in that way, once I got coolant out that
> hose, then fill the coolant tank the rest of the way to the full point.
>
> if its overheating that fast, the upper hose is getting hot, and the lower
> one is not, and you are POSITIVE the thermostat is ok, then start looking at
> the water pump.
>
> Also pull your dipstick and see what color your oil is.
> .
> "Percival P. > wrote in message
> ...
>> And my neighbor said that his friend the Chrysler fan and new owner of the
>> auto shop told him that he had sometimes had to drill extra holes in the
>> body (the flange, I assume) of the thermostat to deal with the airlock
>> problem. Sounds flaky to me.
>>
>> Perce
>>
>> On 08/10/12 03:00 pm, I wrote:
>>
>>> My neighbor came back after talking to his friend the Chrysler fan and
>>> new owner of the auto shop. He says "Definitely not the thermostat:
>>> these things are pain in the neck to bleed, and you just have to keep at
>>> it. But it could be that the vent hole in the thermostat housing is
>>> blocked." But if I have to remove the thermostat housing to check
>>> whether that hole is blocked, I might as well replace the thermostat
>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> Perce
>>>
>>> On 08/10/12 12:13 am, Rob wrote:
>>>> does it overheat just idling in the garage?
>>>>
>>>> or only driving down the road?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> My neighbor said that the sudden rush of coolant from the bottle showed
>>>>> that the thermostat had opened -- but I wasn't sure that I believed
>>>>> him.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't seen bubbles in the coolant: it stays clear and bubble-free
>>>>> until it gets almost up to half-scale on the temp. gauge, at which
>>>>> point
>>>>> the "burps" start.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perce
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/09/12 09:31 pm, Rob wrote:
>>>>>> it is acting like your thermostat is stuck shut. try this first.....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> let it cool down cold. Then with the coolant full, take the cap off
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> watch it while someone starts it up. if you see bubbles, see if you
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> find a parts stores that sells one time use "block testers" they stick
>>>>>> down
>>>>>> inside the coolant and change colors if there is exhaust gases in your
>>>>>> coolant.
>>>>>> http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=391378_0_0_
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BUT....if you DON'T get any bubbles in the coolant when you start it
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> cold, then drain it, put in the new thermostat. Then refill it with
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> bleeder screw open and the hose connected to it. as soon as you get
>>>>>> coolant
>>>>>> out of it, then close it and fill the coolant the rest of the way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> On 08/08/12 10:04 pm, I wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As Ii reported earlier, I completed the overhaul of the a/c, but
>>>>>>>> now I
>>>>>>>> cannot drive more than a couple of miles before the temp. gauge
>>>>>>>> goes up
>>>>>>>> into the red.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My first thought was that the thermostat had chosen this moment to
>>>>>>>> quit,
>>>>>>>> but then I realized that I had overlooked bleeding the cooling
>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> have now followed the instructions for bleeding the system, but the
>>>>>>>> overheating problem is still there. Moreover, we had made four
>>>>>>>> trips of
>>>>>>>> 20 miles or so after fixing the a/c and before the overheating
>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>> reared its ugly head.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When the temp. gauge shows approx. the normal temp. (half scale),
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> top rad. hose is hot while the lower hose is only slightly warm.
>>>>>>>> Doesn't
>>>>>>>> that indicate a thermostat problem? -- although I found a suggestion
>>>>>>>> online that due to this vehicle's design air in the system can cause
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> same problem -- but even after those runs without a problem? How
>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>> the problem didn't show up then if it was due to air in the system?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I did buy a new thermostat, gasket and hose, but decided to consult
>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>> with my has-worked-in-an-auto-shop neighbor (the one who declined
>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>> the a/c job for me). He had me warm the engine up with the bleed
>>>>>>> valve
>>>>>>> open (with a tube to a bucket) and the coolant-bottle cap off and
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>> "Don't worry about the coolant that spews out: it's being forced
>>>>>>> out by
>>>>>>> the air burps." More than a gallon of coolant later (which I had to
>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>> adding to maintain the correct level in the coolant tank) the
>>>>>>> temperature
>>>>>>> still rises too high, and I have no heat in the cabin (no a/c-related
>>>>>>> fault codes). He is now suggesting head-gasket failure, and I do see
>>>>>>> steam
>>>>>>> coming from the exhaust, but I don't know whether the amount is
>>>>>>> abnormal,
>>>>>>> as I don't usually stand behind my car and watch the exhaust. I see
>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>> sign of water in the oil.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My neighbor is going to try to borrow a compression tester and also
>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>>> to talk to his friend who now owns the auto shop where he (my
>>>>>>> neighbor)
>>>>>>> used to work; he is by all accounts a Chrysler fanatic and may have
>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>> useful insights.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any words of wisdom from the assembled multitude here?
>>
>
>

Yes, my thermostat housing looks like that. Here is a diagram (posted by
somebody else) of my bleed valve location:

> http://www.pbase.com/arved/image/30475258/original


On 08/10/12 10:09 pm, Rob wrote:
> well wait...........
>
> does yours look like this?
> http://tinyurl.com/8lz8sk2
>
> if it does then your bleed valve is different than I thought it
> was....yours is probably behind the first couple intake runners.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ng.com...
>> this is the 3.5L just like mine. only difference was mine was first gen.
>>
>>
>> never had any issues with the bleeding. filled it until coolant ran out
>> that hose, with a small amount of coolant in the catch bucket to cover the
>> end of the hose so it didn't suck any air in that way, once I got coolant
>> out that hose, then fill the coolant tank the rest of the way to the full
>> point.
>>
>> if its overheating that fast, the upper hose is getting hot, and the lower
>> one is not, and you are POSITIVE the thermostat is ok, then start looking
>> at the water pump.
>>
>> Also pull your dipstick and see what color your oil is.

yeah that looks about right. the lower end of that hose goes in a bucket
with a little bit of coolant in it. I use a clear hose so I can see it
running out the hose.



"Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, my thermostat housing looks like that. Here is a diagram (posted by
> somebody else) of my bleed valve location:
>
> > http://www.pbase.com/arved/image/30475258/original
>
>
> On 08/10/12 10:09 pm, Rob wrote:
>> well wait...........
>>
>> does yours look like this?
>> http://tinyurl.com/8lz8sk2
>>
>> if it does then your bleed valve is different than I thought it
>> was....yours is probably behind the first couple intake runners.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote in message
>> ng.com...
>>> this is the 3.5L just like mine. only difference was mine was first gen.
>>>
>>>
>>> never had any issues with the bleeding. filled it until coolant ran out
>>> that hose, with a small amount of coolant in the catch bucket to cover
>>> the
>>> end of the hose so it didn't suck any air in that way, once I got
>>> coolant
>>> out that hose, then fill the coolant tank the rest of the way to the
>>> full
>>> point.
>>>
>>> if its overheating that fast, the upper hose is getting hot, and the
>>> lower
>>> one is not, and you are POSITIVE the thermostat is ok, then start
>>> looking
>>> at the water pump.
>>>
>>> Also pull your dipstick and see what color your oil is.

if its plenty warm outside when you fire it up, and its not real humid, then
you shouldn't be getting any whites puffs out the back.......especially when
you give it light throttle. either way something has suddenly changed, sine
it worked fine for a while after the A/C repair.

By the way...are the fans coming on? I ask because with the A/C off, and
just idling in the driveway or garage, they should come on automatically at
the right temp....hot enough and they will go from low to high. and ofcourse
they should be running with the A/C on as well.

"Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
...
> The oil does need changing (just past the 3000 mile interval), and since
> some say that removing the oil filter makes it easier to get at the
> thermostat housing, I was planning to change the oil at the same time. But
> I see no signs of moisture on the dipstick.
>
> At this point I am NOT sure that the thermostat is OK, despite what my
> neighbor and his buddy are saying.
>
> The water pump should be OK, as it was replaced along with the timing
> belt, etc., etc., about 25K miles ago.
>
> On 08/10/12 09:33 pm, Rob wrote:
>> this is the 3.5L just like mine. only difference was mine was first gen.
>>
>>
>> never had any issues with the bleeding. filled it until coolant ran out
>> that
>> hose, with a small amount of coolant in the catch bucket to cover the end
>> of
>> the hose so it didn't suck any air in that way, once I got coolant out
>> that
>> hose, then fill the coolant tank the rest of the way to the full point.
>>
>> if its overheating that fast, the upper hose is getting hot, and the
>> lower
>> one is not, and you are POSITIVE the thermostat is ok, then start looking
>> at
>> the water pump.
>>
>> Also pull your dipstick and see what color your oil is.
>> .
>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> And my neighbor said that his friend the Chrysler fan and new owner of
>>> the
>>> auto shop told him that he had sometimes had to drill extra holes in the
>>> body (the flange, I assume) of the thermostat to deal with the airlock
>>> problem. Sounds flaky to me.
>>>
>>> Perce
>>>
>>> On 08/10/12 03:00 pm, I wrote:
>>>
>>>> My neighbor came back after talking to his friend the Chrysler fan and
>>>> new owner of the auto shop. He says "Definitely not the thermostat:
>>>> these things are pain in the neck to bleed, and you just have to keep
>>>> at
>>>> it. But it could be that the vent hole in the thermostat housing is
>>>> blocked." But if I have to remove the thermostat housing to check
>>>> whether that hole is blocked, I might as well replace the thermostat
>>>> anyway.
>>>>
>>>> Perce
>>>>
>>>> On 08/10/12 12:13 am, Rob wrote:
>>>>> does it overheat just idling in the garage?
>>>>>
>>>>> or only driving down the road?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> My neighbor said that the sudden rush of coolant from the bottle
>>>>>> showed
>>>>>> that the thermostat had opened -- but I wasn't sure that I believed
>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't seen bubbles in the coolant: it stays clear and bubble-free
>>>>>> until it gets almost up to half-scale on the temp. gauge, at which
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> the "burps" start.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perce
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 08/09/12 09:31 pm, Rob wrote:
>>>>>>> it is acting like your thermostat is stuck shut. try this first.....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> let it cool down cold. Then with the coolant full, take the cap off
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> watch it while someone starts it up. if you see bubbles, see if you
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> find a parts stores that sells one time use "block testers" they
>>>>>>> stick
>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>> inside the coolant and change colors if there is exhaust gases in
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> coolant.
>>>>>>> http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=391378_0_0_
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BUT....if you DON'T get any bubbles in the coolant when you start it
>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>> cold, then drain it, put in the new thermostat. Then refill it with
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bleeder screw open and the hose connected to it. as soon as you get
>>>>>>> coolant
>>>>>>> out of it, then close it and fill the coolant the rest of the way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> On 08/08/12 10:04 pm, I wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As Ii reported earlier, I completed the overhaul of the a/c, but
>>>>>>>>> now I
>>>>>>>>> cannot drive more than a couple of miles before the temp. gauge
>>>>>>>>> goes up
>>>>>>>>> into the red.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My first thought was that the thermostat had chosen this moment to
>>>>>>>>> quit,
>>>>>>>>> but then I realized that I had overlooked bleeding the cooling
>>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have now followed the instructions for bleeding the system, but
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> overheating problem is still there. Moreover, we had made four
>>>>>>>>> trips of
>>>>>>>>> 20 miles or so after fixing the a/c and before the overheating
>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>> reared its ugly head.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When the temp. gauge shows approx. the normal temp. (half scale),
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> top rad. hose is hot while the lower hose is only slightly warm.
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't
>>>>>>>>> that indicate a thermostat problem? -- although I found a
>>>>>>>>> suggestion
>>>>>>>>> online that due to this vehicle's design air in the system can
>>>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> same problem -- but even after those runs without a problem? How
>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>> the problem didn't show up then if it was due to air in the
>>>>>>>>> system?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did buy a new thermostat, gasket and hose, but decided to consult
>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>> with my has-worked-in-an-auto-shop neighbor (the one who declined
>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>> the a/c job for me). He had me warm the engine up with the bleed
>>>>>>>> valve
>>>>>>>> open (with a tube to a bucket) and the coolant-bottle cap off and
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> "Don't worry about the coolant that spews out: it's being forced
>>>>>>>> out by
>>>>>>>> the air burps." More than a gallon of coolant later (which I had to
>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>> adding to maintain the correct level in the coolant tank) the
>>>>>>>> temperature
>>>>>>>> still rises too high, and I have no heat in the cabin (no
>>>>>>>> a/c-related
>>>>>>>> fault codes). He is now suggesting head-gasket failure, and I do
>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>> steam
>>>>>>>> coming from the exhaust, but I don't know whether the amount is
>>>>>>>> abnormal,
>>>>>>>> as I don't usually stand behind my car and watch the exhaust. I see
>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>> sign of water in the oil.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My neighbor is going to try to borrow a compression tester and also
>>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>>>> to talk to his friend who now owns the auto shop where he (my
>>>>>>>> neighbor)
>>>>>>>> used to work; he is by all accounts a Chrysler fanatic and may have
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>> useful insights.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any words of wisdom from the assembled multitude here?
>>>
>>
>>
>

It was raining and not particularly warm (60ish) yesterday when I
noticed the steam from the exhaust.

My neighbor suggests that what changed was that the air bubble moved
from a place where it didn't matter much to one where it does matter.
Possible? I don't know. Could such an air bubble survive the specified
bleeding process?

The fans are coming on.

On 08/10/12 11:59 pm, Rob wrote:

> if its plenty warm outside when you fire it up, and its not real humid, then
> you shouldn't be getting any whites puffs out the back.......especially when
> you give it light throttle. either way something has suddenly changed, sine
> it worked fine for a while after the A/C repair.
>
> By the way...are the fans coming on? I ask because with the A/C off, and
> just idling in the driveway or garage, they should come on automatically at
> the right temp....hot enough and they will go from low to high. and ofcourse
> they should be running with the A/C on as well.
>
> "Percival P. > wrote in message
> ...
>> The oil does need changing (just past the 3000 mile interval), and since
>> some say that removing the oil filter makes it easier to get at the
>> thermostat housing, I was planning to change the oil at the same time. But
>> I see no signs of moisture on the dipstick.
>>
>> At this point I am NOT sure that the thermostat is OK, despite what my
>> neighbor and his buddy are saying.
>>
>> The water pump should be OK, as it was replaced along with the timing
>> belt, etc., etc., about 25K miles ago.
>>
>> On 08/10/12 09:33 pm, Rob wrote:
>>> this is the 3.5L just like mine. only difference was mine was first gen.
>>>
>>>
>>> never had any issues with the bleeding. filled it until coolant ran out
>>> that
>>> hose, with a small amount of coolant in the catch bucket to cover the end
>>> of
>>> the hose so it didn't suck any air in that way, once I got coolant out
>>> that
>>> hose, then fill the coolant tank the rest of the way to the full point.
>>>
>>> if its overheating that fast, the upper hose is getting hot, and the
>>> lower
>>> one is not, and you are POSITIVE the thermostat is ok, then start looking
>>> at
>>> the water pump.
>>>
>>> Also pull your dipstick and see what color your oil is.
>>> .
>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> And my neighbor said that his friend the Chrysler fan and new owner of
>>>> the
>>>> auto shop told him that he had sometimes had to drill extra holes in the
>>>> body (the flange, I assume) of the thermostat to deal with the airlock
>>>> problem. Sounds flaky to me.
>>>>
>>>> Perce
>>>>
>>>> On 08/10/12 03:00 pm, I wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My neighbor came back after talking to his friend the Chrysler fan and
>>>>> new owner of the auto shop. He says "Definitely not the thermostat:
>>>>> these things are pain in the neck to bleed, and you just have to keep
>>>>> at
>>>>> it. But it could be that the vent hole in the thermostat housing is
>>>>> blocked." But if I have to remove the thermostat housing to check
>>>>> whether that hole is blocked, I might as well replace the thermostat
>>>>> anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perce
>>>>>
>>>>> On 08/10/12 12:13 am, Rob wrote:
>>>>>> does it overheat just idling in the garage?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> or only driving down the road?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> My neighbor said that the sudden rush of coolant from the bottle
>>>>>>> showed
>>>>>>> that the thermostat had opened -- but I wasn't sure that I believed
>>>>>>> him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I haven't seen bubbles in the coolant: it stays clear and bubble-free
>>>>>>> until it gets almost up to half-scale on the temp. gauge, at which
>>>>>>> point
>>>>>>> the "burps" start.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perce
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 08/09/12 09:31 pm, Rob wrote:
>>>>>>>> it is acting like your thermostat is stuck shut. try this first.....
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> let it cool down cold. Then with the coolant full, take the cap off
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> watch it while someone starts it up. if you see bubbles, see if you
>>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>>> find a parts stores that sells one time use "block testers" they
>>>>>>>> stick
>>>>>>>> down
>>>>>>>> inside the coolant and change colors if there is exhaust gases in
>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>> coolant.
>>>>>>>> http://www.autozone.com/autozone/acc...er=391378_0_0_
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BUT....if you DON'T get any bubbles in the coolant when you start it
>>>>>>>> up
>>>>>>>> cold, then drain it, put in the new thermostat. Then refill it with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> bleeder screw open and the hose connected to it. as soon as you get
>>>>>>>> coolant
>>>>>>>> out of it, then close it and fill the coolant the rest of the way.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Percival P. > wrote in message
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> On 08/08/12 10:04 pm, I wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As Ii reported earlier, I completed the overhaul of the a/c, but
>>>>>>>>>> now I
>>>>>>>>>> cannot drive more than a couple of miles before the temp. gauge
>>>>>>>>>> goes up
>>>>>>>>>> into the red.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My first thought was that the thermostat had chosen this moment to
>>>>>>>>>> quit,
>>>>>>>>>> but then I realized that I had overlooked bleeding the cooling
>>>>>>>>>> system.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> have now followed the instructions for bleeding the system, but
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> overheating problem is still there. Moreover, we had made four
>>>>>>>>>> trips of
>>>>>>>>>> 20 miles or so after fixing the a/c and before the overheating
>>>>>>>>>> problem
>>>>>>>>>> reared its ugly head.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When the temp. gauge shows approx. the normal temp. (half scale),
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> top rad. hose is hot while the lower hose is only slightly warm.
>>>>>>>>>> Doesn't
>>>>>>>>>> that indicate a thermostat problem? -- although I found a
>>>>>>>>>> suggestion
>>>>>>>>>> online that due to this vehicle's design air in the system can
>>>>>>>>>> cause
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> same problem -- but even after those runs without a problem? How
>>>>>>>>>> come
>>>>>>>>>> the problem didn't show up then if it was due to air in the
>>>>>>>>>> system?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I did buy a new thermostat, gasket and hose, but decided to consult
>>>>>>>>> first
>>>>>>>>> with my has-worked-in-an-auto-shop neighbor (the one who declined
>>>>>>>>> to do
>>>>>>>>> the a/c job for me). He had me warm the engine up with the bleed
>>>>>>>>> valve
>>>>>>>>> open (with a tube to a bucket) and the coolant-bottle cap off and
>>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>>> "Don't worry about the coolant that spews out: it's being forced
>>>>>>>>> out by
>>>>>>>>> the air burps." More than a gallon of coolant later (which I had to
>>>>>>>>> keep
>>>>>>>>> adding to maintain the correct level in the coolant tank) the
>>>>>>>>> temperature
>>>>>>>>> still rises too high, and I have no heat in the cabin (no
>>>>>>>>> a/c-related
>>>>>>>>> fault codes). He is now suggesting head-gasket failure, and I do
>>>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>>> steam
>>>>>>>>> coming from the exhaust, but I don't know whether the amount is
>>>>>>>>> abnormal,
>>>>>>>>> as I don't usually stand behind my car and watch the exhaust. I see
>>>>>>>>> no
>>>>>>>>> sign of water in the oil.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My neighbor is going to try to borrow a compression tester and also
>>>>>>>>> plans
>>>>>>>>> to talk to his friend who now owns the auto shop where he (my
>>>>>>>>> neighbor)
>>>>>>>>> used to work; he is by all accounts a Chrysler fanatic and may have
>>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>> useful insights.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any words of wisdom from the assembled multitude here?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

I've just noticed in the service Manual the following:

"• When Engine is cold: Thermostat is closed, cool-
ing system has no flow through the radiator. The
coolant flows through the engine, heater core, coolant
bottle and an internal engine by-pass.
• When Engine is warm: Thermostat is open, cool-
ant flows through the radiator, heater core, coolant
bottle and by-pass."

Note in paragraph 1 that the coolant is still supposed to be flowing
through the heater core even when the thermostat is closed, so even if
the engine isn't warm enough for the thermostat to have opened,
shouldn't there be *some* heat in the cabin if I crank the temperature up?


On 08/11/12 06:02 am, I wrote:

> It was raining and not particularly warm (60ish) yesterday when I
> noticed the steam from the exhaust.
>
> My neighbor suggests that what changed was that the air bubble moved
> from a place where it didn't matter much to one where it does matter.
> Possible? I don't know. Could such an air bubble survive the specified
> bleeding process?
>
> The fans are coming on.
>
> On 08/10/12 11:59 pm, Rob wrote:
>
>> if its plenty warm outside when you fire it up, and its not real
>> humid, then
>> you shouldn't be getting any whites puffs out the
>> back.......especially when
>> you give it light throttle. either way something has suddenly changed,
>> sine
>> it worked fine for a while after the A/C repair.
>>
>> By the way...are the fans coming on? I ask because with the A/C off, and
>> just idling in the driveway or garage, they should come on
>> automatically at
>> the right temp....hot enough and they will go from low to high. and
>> ofcourse
>> they should be running with the A/C on as well.

there might be some but not really hot until it gets over 150 or so.....


"Percival P. Cassidy" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> I've just noticed in the service Manual the following:
>
> "• When Engine is cold: Thermostat is closed, cool-
> ing system has no flow through the radiator. The
> coolant flows through the engine, heater core, coolant
> bottle and an internal engine by-pass.
> • When Engine is warm: Thermostat is open, cool-
> ant flows through the radiator, heater core, coolant
> bottle and by-pass."
>
> Note in paragraph 1 that the coolant is still supposed to be flowing
> through the heater core even when the thermostat is closed, so even if the
> engine isn't warm enough for the thermostat to have opened, shouldn't
> there be *some* heat in the cabin if I crank the temperature up?
>
>
> On 08/11/12 06:02 am, I wrote:
>
>> It was raining and not particularly warm (60ish) yesterday when I
>> noticed the steam from the exhaust.
>>
>> My neighbor suggests that what changed was that the air bubble moved
>> from a place where it didn't matter much to one where it does matter.
>> Possible? I don't know. Could such an air bubble survive the specified
>> bleeding process?
>>
>> The fans are coming on.
>>
>> On 08/10/12 11:59 pm, Rob wrote:
>>
>>> if its plenty warm outside when you fire it up, and its not real
>>> humid, then
>>> you shouldn't be getting any whites puffs out the
>>> back.......especially when
>>> you give it light throttle. either way something has suddenly changed,
>>> sine
>>> it worked fine for a while after the A/C repair.
>>>
>>> By the way...are the fans coming on? I ask because with the A/C off, and
>>> just idling in the driveway or garage, they should come on
>>> automatically at
>>> the right temp....hot enough and they will go from low to high. and
>>> ofcourse
>>> they should be running with the A/C on as well.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:

> "• When Engine is cold: Thermostat is closed, cool-
> ing system has no flow through the radiator. The
> coolant flows through the engine, heater core, coolant
> bottle and an internal engine by-pass.

I think that's the case for most cars that coolant always flows through
the heater core regardless what the thermostat is doing.

I know that on my 300m that in the winter (when the car has been in the
garage overnight with the garage temp at about 45 - 50 F and outside
temp in the 10's or 20's) that if I turn the heat on, I will feel some
luke-warm air after about 1 minute of driving - and the needle of the
temp guage pointing to the first mark on the dial. After 2 or 3 minutes
of driving, the air is blowing hot.

About 2 years ago I had the timing belt changed on my 300m - and along
with that the water pump was changed too (no reason other than it was
easy to do with not much added cost). I have the original pump (and
belt). The new pump was made by Fenco.

I'd have to say that in your case - the pump must have failed. The
impeller must be free-wheeling and not doing any pumping.

Ditto......

as long as he's not getting any bubbles in his coolant at cold, he's bled
the system, and not getting any steam out the tailpipe or coolant in the
oil, then I am aiming for the same thing.



"Mopar Man" > wrote in message
...
> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
>
>> ". When Engine is cold: Thermostat is closed, cool-
>> ing system has no flow through the radiator. The
>> coolant flows through the engine, heater core, coolant
>> bottle and an internal engine by-pass.
>
> I think that's the case for most cars that coolant always flows through
> the heater core regardless what the thermostat is doing.
>
> I know that on my 300m that in the winter (when the car has been in the
> garage overnight with the garage temp at about 45 - 50 F and outside
> temp in the 10's or 20's) that if I turn the heat on, I will feel some
> luke-warm air after about 1 minute of driving - and the needle of the
> temp guage pointing to the first mark on the dial. After 2 or 3 minutes
> of driving, the air is blowing hot.
>
> About 2 years ago I had the timing belt changed on my 300m - and along
> with that the water pump was changed too (no reason other than it was
> easy to do with not much added cost). I have the original pump (and
> belt). The new pump was made by Fenco.
>
> I'd have to say that in your case - the pump must have failed. The
> impeller must be free-wheeling and not doing any pumping.

Yuck! That's not going to be cheap to have someone fix. That's almost as
much work as the timing-belt job I had done two or three years back --
although not as many parts now, of course. The water pump was replaced
then; surely it should have lasted longer than this.

But that would explain the sudden onset of overheating when it had been
running fine after the a/c job.

I tried to get at the thermostat today but couldn't release the spring
hose clamp. I've bled the thing again (cold) and kept pumping the top
radiator hose, which seemed to get rid of still more air -- coolant
bottle fluid level dropping even with the bleed valve closed. Since
using the "special tool" filler funnel (which I don't have) according to
the manual releases a small amount of coolant into the overflow chamber,
I let some coolant flow into it before I started the engine.

I then ran it for about 15 minutes at engine speeds between 500 and
2000rpm, and it was just getting up toward the red (rather sudden
increase from sitting around half-scale). The coolant level in the
overflow compartment of the bottle was higher then.

Still no heat in the cabin.

BTW, I read somewhere today that modern thermostats rarely stick closed:
they are designed to fail open.

On 08/11/12 09:35 pm, Rob wrote:
> Ditto......
>
> as long as he's not getting any bubbles in his coolant at cold, he's bled
> the system, and not getting any steam out the tailpipe or coolant in the
> oil, then I am aiming for the same thing.
>
>
>
> "Mopar > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Percival P. Cassidy" wrote:
>>
>>> ". When Engine is cold: Thermostat is closed, cool-
>>> ing system has no flow through the radiator. The
>>> coolant flows through the engine, heater core, coolant
>>> bottle and an internal engine by-pass.
>>
>> I think that's the case for most cars that coolant always flows through
>> the heater core regardless what the thermostat is doing.
>>
>> I know that on my 300m that in the winter (when the car has been in the
>> garage overnight with the garage temp at about 45 - 50 F and outside
>> temp in the 10's or 20's) that if I turn the heat on, I will feel some
>> luke-warm air after about 1 minute of driving - and the needle of the
>> temp guage pointing to the first mark on the dial. After 2 or 3 minutes
>> of driving, the air is blowing hot.
>>
>> About 2 years ago I had the timing belt changed on my 300m - and along
>> with that the water pump was changed too (no reason other than it was
>> easy to do with not much added cost). I have the original pump (and
>> belt). The new pump was made by Fenco.
>>
>> I'd have to say that in your case - the pump must have failed. The
>> impeller must be free-wheeling and not doing any pumping.