Where Were Ponch and Jon?

On Dec 7, 8:13*pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
> > said:
>
> >I don't know about your wife or his wife, or even my wife in such a
> >situation, but I wouldn't expect anything but a freeze-or-flight
> >reaction, certainly not a cool, logical yanking on the shifter.
>
> Perhaps. However, I *would* expect cool, logical thinking from a
> trained veteran CHP officer.

I've lost track - why do you think he wasn't? He put on the flashers,
kept the brakes on as long as he could, had the guy in the back call
911, I don't accept that it would have been logical to scrape the K-
rail (ever seen a NASCAR crash?)... what else could he do?

Here's the guy he hit:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...covery-slowly/

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ain-to-region/

"Scott in SoCal" > wrote in message
...
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
> > said:
>
>>On Dec 7, 8:13 pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
>>> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
>>> > said:
>>>
>>> >I don't know about your wife or his wife, or even my wife in such a
>>> >situation, but I wouldn't expect anything but a freeze-or-flight
>>> >reaction, certainly not a cool, logical yanking on the shifter.
>>>
>>> Perhaps. However, I *would* expect cool, logical thinking from a
>>> trained veteran CHP officer.
>>
>>I've lost track - why do you think he wasn't?
>
> Because he failed to do any of the following:
>
> * Shift into neutral, reverse, park, or even a lower gear

Electronic controlled automatic transmissions will *not* shift to a lower
gear beyond the rev limiter point for that gear (usually just before
redline). At best, from overdrive they will act as if overdrive was
disabled, but gearing down to something like 2 or 1 will be completely
ignored. Not sure about reverse being ignored as well vs. destroying the
transmission. Still, that leaves shifting to Neutral or Park as the only
available options left. It's also already been revealed that once in the S
shift mode, Neutral is not just a simple bump upward from drive.

> * Turn off the engine

Push button emergency stop of that vehicle requires a 3 second hold, it's
not obvious from the button that is needed and it's already been mentioned
that the engine can otherwise only be shut off when in "P".

> * Slide the mat out from under his gas pedal to free it

One would have to be slowed down or stopped to do that, just like the other
guy did before the fatal collision incident. Plus, it's generally being
assumed it was a stuck floor mat but what if it was also something like the
throttle position sensor malfunctioning in the full throttle position?

> * Scrub off speed against the K-rail

That risks a rollover type of scenario at a high enough speed due to the
K-rail on freeways not being a completely flat wall like at a speedway--it's
actually wider at the bottom and angles in to be narrower.

[snip...]

On Dec 8, 6:27*pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
> > said:
>
> >On Dec 7, 8:13*pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> >> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
> >> > said:
>
> >> >I don't know about your wife or his wife, or even my wife in such a
> >> >situation, but I wouldn't expect anything but a freeze-or-flight
> >> >reaction, certainly not a cool, logical yanking on the shifter.
>
> >> Perhaps. However, I *would* expect cool, logical thinking from a
> >> trained veteran CHP officer.
>
> >I've lost track - why do you think he wasn't? *
>
> Because he failed to do any of the following:
>
> * Shift into neutral, reverse, park, or even a lower gear
> * Turn off the engine
> * Slide the mat out from under his gas pedal to free it
> * Scrub off speed against the K-rail
> * Anything other than epic fail
>
> >I don't accept that it would have been logical to scrape the K-
> >rail
>
> Why not? He didn't go from 0 to 120 MPH instantaneously; there must
> have been periods where he was going slower and could have used that
> technique safely.
>
> One of the articles mentioned that this same car had been loaned to
> someone else a week or two before and had the exact same problem
> (stuck accelerator). Somehow THAT guy had the presence of mind to
> slide the mat out with his foot and not crash the car.

Yeah, I'm postulating that the other guy's incident ****ed up the
brakes (glazed and who-knows-what-else) and made the Saylor incident
happen that much faster and more unpredictable. So you may be making
the same wrong assumptions that Saylor made: that there wasn't
anything wrong to begin with, and only one thing was wrong. We just
don't know the timeline, even with the 911 call. Of course, I'm
making even more assumptions... but that's ok, this is usenet. The
other people using the car in-between may have simply not noticed the
brakes were abnormal, always a problem with power-assist. My first
car, '65 Galaxie big-block with about 50K miles on it - my mom had
worn the brakes all the way through to where the rivets in the pad
split one of the drums, she never noticed a problem - "It drives
beautiful!" Modern discs can have all sorts of issues without
complaining, drivers don't notice, and sometimes don't even believe
mechanic's advice. And as others noted in one articles comments,
telling the people you return rentals/loaners to that there is a
problem is just a waste of time. They just check the gas gauge to
charge you, turn it around and give it to the next victim. I rented a
box truck one time to move 100 miles, 25MPH it would start shaking so
bad... barely made it back in time to get another before they closed.

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...irs-completed/

On Dec 9, 8:14*pm, Scott in SoCal > wrote:
> Last time on rec.autos.driving, jgar the jorrible
> > said:
>
> >> One of the articles mentioned that this same car had been loaned to
> >> someone else a week or two before and had the exact same problem
> >> (stuck accelerator). Somehow THAT guy had the presence of mind to
> >> slide the mat out with his foot and not crash the car.
>
> >Yeah, I'm postulating that the other guy's incident ****ed up the
> >brakes (glazed and who-knows-what-else)
>
> Then this guy is double stupid for not immediately noticing the faulty
> brakes and switching to a different loaner car.

Well, you kinda missed the point I made in the stuff you clipped -
it's not always so obvious. I know the brakes in my MIL's Camry sure
felt "different" to me, but they checked out ok. The fellow I sold it
to, who had had an earlier one, also said they felt wrong, I told him
he ought to have the thing checked out by a pro regardless, I wasn't
about to argue about it or let him turn it into a huge negotiating
tactic. But maybe all brake mechanics at all Toyota dealers are
stupid :-O

There's also the straw-breaking-Camel's-back - they might have been
just _about_ to fail. Rental/loaners have all sorts of abuse. And
yet, the car both my wife and I had the least problems of all we've
had was a previous loaner (Infiniti G20, sold at 153K and still saw it
years later).

> Where does it say the previous renter was STOPPED when he pulled the mat out with his foot?

You're right, though it's easy to read that in when they say "pull
over:"

"...while merging onto Interstate 15 from the Poway Road on-ramp,
[Bernard] took his foot off the gas and the car kept accelerating, to
85 mph... Bernard pressed long and hard on the brakes and was able to
pull over and slow down. He put the car into neutral, but the engine
continued to race at full speed. After several failed attempts at
turning off the engine, he realized the floor mat had jammed the gas
pedal. He slid his foot under the accelerator, dislodged it and had no
further problems..."

Of course, there will never be any way to know there wasn't more than
one problem, Occam be damned.
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/...eBlCgDFmg.cspx
(magical cell phone and "breaks" huh-huh).

jg
--
@home.com is bogus.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...y-car-crashes/