Rings not seating on 63 SB

I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a condition
that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing something to try
to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned SAE30 ND (for 500
miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they supplied for the
re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a while and they've
not experienced any problems in similar circumstances. The man who did the
re-build for me has been doing this for many years, and he can't remember a
Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge to share, regarding this
condition, will be appreciated- lib

It looks like it could be cylinders not honed properly or wrong oil rings.
Have you checked the compression? Did the guy who put it together check the
ring gap in the cylinders when installing?

Have you pulled the plugs to see if it's all cylinders or just one that's
oil fouled?

What work did you have done on the block?

Unless someone has any better ideas, you may have to pull the engine and
inspect it to see.

lib wrote:

> I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
> seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
> stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
> job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
> problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
> approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
> machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
> after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
> getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
> condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
> something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
> SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
> supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
> while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
> The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years,
> and he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge
> to share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib

--
Eugene Blanchard
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas
Home of the DIY Hot Rod Kustom website

If a shop did the work I would make them fix it...

--
ZÿRiX
(¯`'..(<>..<>)..'´¯)

"lib" > wrote in message
.. .
>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years, and
>he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge to
>share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib
>

"lib" > wrote in message
.. .
>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years, and
>he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge to
>share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib

In my experience smoke on acceleration are valve guides leaking, smoke on
deceleration (high vacuum) are rings. Perhaps the valve seals are the
culprit. I'd check the spark plugs maybe you can figure out which
cylinder(s) are the problem. I'd take it back to the shop and say "FIX IT"!
You seem to have broken it in correctly...

Butcher
'96 LT-4 CE

Butcher wrote:

>
> "lib" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
>>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years,
>>and he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge
>>to share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib
>
> In my experience smoke on acceleration are valve guides leaking, smoke on
> deceleration (high vacuum) are rings. Perhaps the valve seals are the
> culprit. I'd check the spark plugs maybe you can figure out which
> cylinder(s) are the problem. I'd take it back to the shop and say "FIX
> IT"! You seem to have broken it in correctly...
>
> Butcher
> '96 LT-4 CE

I agree, a puff of blue smoke on acceleration is valve guide seals leaking,
constant blue smoke at idle is rings. 1.5 qt over 900 mi sounds more like
rings. Hopefully its valve seals as they are a lot easier to change. Maybe
someone forgot them?

Someone screwed up and now its a blame game between the machine shop and the
guy who rebuilt it.

--
Eugene Blanchard
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas
Home of the DIY Hot Rod Kustom website

"lib" > wrote in message
.. .
>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new
>rings, seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when
>accelerating from stop. The machine shop that did the boring and
>supplied the parts for the job are not being very helpful or
>forthcoming in identifying this as a problem or what could be done to
>mitigate this smoke. The car has used approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt.
>oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The machine shop had us change
>the oil and filter, after running for an hour after starting for the
>first time, then again at about 500 mi. before getting out on the
>road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a condition that needs
>more miles to settle in or if I should be doing something to try to
>assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned SAE30 ND (for
>500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they supplied
>for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar
>circumstances. The man who did the re-build for me has been doing
>this for many years, and he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this
>long to seat. Any knowledge to share, regarding this condition, will
>be appreciated- lib
Eliminate the little things first, check the PCV valve in the back of
the carb and it's vacuum path. Run a vacuum test and pay close
attention to how the gage reacts, cheap gage and instructions should
come with it. With the oil fill cap off do you feel a pulse of air
when it is idling? If nothing shows up there it's time to quit
guessing and pull the plugs and take a good look at their condition.
While they are out, run a compression check. If you don't get a
noticeable blue puff of smoke at startup after it has sat for awhile
it's not the valve seals. If you find one plug that looks like the
culprit you could change those seals and see if it makes a difference,
my guess is it may not.

By the way I did not say 30 weight non-detergent oil and I wouldn't be
running that weight in it in the first place for break in after a
rebuild, maybe even 20. Please note that this is no longer recommended
for today's hotter running engines but worked on the engines of the
early '70s and older. Information came from an old sprint car engine
builder and it actually requires the rings to break the lubricating
film between them and the cylinder wall. Your engine builder may not
be relating to the age of your engine as well, he must be working on
more modern engines that require a heavier weight detergent oil at
startup.

Interesting read - http://www.tcmlink.com/visitors/carenfeed/brkin.pdf

Good luck.....

lib wrote:

>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a condition
>that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing something to try
>to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned SAE30 ND (for 500
>miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they supplied for the
>re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a while and they've
>not experienced any problems in similar circumstances. The man who did the
>re-build for me has been doing this for many years, and he can't remember a
>Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge to share, regarding this
>condition, will be appreciated- lib
>
>
>
>
You have a problem....
Could be valve seals, on DECELERATION you will see smoke
from the vacuum created in the cylinder sucking oil past the seals.
But it doesn't sound like it from your description.

My first suspicions are that the machine shop not getting a good pattern
on the
cylinder walls during the honing process. Too smooth of stones or bad
crosshatch pattern or the combo of the two. And possibly boring to wrong
specs. (oversize). But you should hear some piston slap when it's cold
if the cylinders are too big for the piston/ring package.

Or the builder broke some rings, or didn't stagger the ring gaps. Or
left off one
or both of the thin oil ring support rings. Or hand filed the ring gaps
OUTRAGEOUSLY
too large. With today's metallurgy you shouldn't be having any ring
seating issues at all.

--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
GPL Handicap 6.35

http://www.pcola.gulf.net/~ricseyler
remove –SPAM- from email address
--------------------------------------
"Homer no function beer well without."
- H.J. Simpson

Ric Seyler wrote:

> lib wrote:
>
>>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
>>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years,
>>and he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge
>>to share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You have a problem....
> Could be valve seals, on DECELERATION you will see smoke
> from the vacuum created in the cylinder sucking oil past the seals.
> But it doesn't sound like it from your description.
>
> My first suspicions are that the machine shop not getting a good pattern
> on the
> cylinder walls during the honing process. Too smooth of stones or bad
> crosshatch pattern or the combo of the two. And possibly boring to wrong
> specs. (oversize). But you should hear some piston slap when it's cold
> if the cylinders are too big for the piston/ring package.
>
> Or the builder broke some rings, or didn't stagger the ring gaps. Or
> left off one
> or both of the thin oil ring support rings. Or hand filed the ring gaps
> OUTRAGEOUSLY
> too large. With today's metallurgy you shouldn't be having any ring
> seating issues at all.
>

A long time ago, I honed a Ford V6 with one of those drill hone attachments
and did an absolutely horrid job. When I got it all together, it didn't
burn oil but it did take 1000 miles to seat the compression rings. It ran
with little power for the first 500 miles and then you could feel the rings
start to seat and the power come in - all 105 hp! Ran that car for another
50,000 miles without any engine problems.

--
Eugene Blanchard
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas
Home of the DIY Hot Rod Kustom website

I pulled and checked all the plugs- all clean and not oily. I isolated the
PVC valve and it appears to be working properly. I don't feel any pulse at
the oil filler cap at idle. It appears the next step will be to have the
timing adjusted to 8 deg. and see if it improves. If not, will have to test
all holes. Fortunately, it runs strong, I can drive it when I want to, and
the motor shouldn't be eating itself up until I get this resolved-lib


"Eugene Blanchard" > wrote in message
newsygKi.97656$bO6.2501@edtnps89...
> Ric Seyler wrote:
>
>> lib wrote:
>>
>>>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>>>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>>>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>>>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>>>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>>>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>>>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>>>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>>>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>>>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>>>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>>>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts
>>>they
>>>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite
>>>a
>>>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>>>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years,
>>>and he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge
>>>to share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You have a problem....
>> Could be valve seals, on DECELERATION you will see smoke
>> from the vacuum created in the cylinder sucking oil past the seals.
>> But it doesn't sound like it from your description.
>>
>> My first suspicions are that the machine shop not getting a good pattern
>> on the
>> cylinder walls during the honing process. Too smooth of stones or bad
>> crosshatch pattern or the combo of the two. And possibly boring to wrong
>> specs. (oversize). But you should hear some piston slap when it's cold
>> if the cylinders are too big for the piston/ring package.
>>
>> Or the builder broke some rings, or didn't stagger the ring gaps. Or
>> left off one
>> or both of the thin oil ring support rings. Or hand filed the ring gaps
>> OUTRAGEOUSLY
>> too large. With today's metallurgy you shouldn't be having any ring
>> seating issues at all.
>>
>
> A long time ago, I honed a Ford V6 with one of those drill hone
> attachments
> and did an absolutely horrid job. When I got it all together, it didn't
> burn oil but it did take 1000 miles to seat the compression rings. It ran
> with little power for the first 500 miles and then you could feel the
> rings
> start to seat and the power come in - all 105 hp! Ran that car for another
> 50,000 miles without any engine problems.
>
> --
> Eugene Blanchard
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas
> Home of the DIY Hot Rod Kustom website
>

"lib" > wrote in message
.. .
>I now have approx. 1500 mi on total re-build (block was bored, new rings,
>seals, etc.) and still blowing smoke out exhaust when accelerating from
>stop. The machine shop that did the boring and supplied the parts for the
>job are not being very helpful or forthcoming in identifying this as a
>problem or what could be done to mitigate this smoke. The car has used
>approx. 1.5 quarts of 30 wt. oil in the 900 mi. since last changed. The
>machine shop had us change the oil and filter, after running for an hour
>after starting for the first time, then again at about 500 mi. before
>getting out on the road for a long run. I am not sure if this is a
>condition that needs more miles to settle in or if I should be doing
>something to try to assist the rings in seating. I remember Dad mentioned
>SAE30 ND (for 500 miles?). The machine shop assured me that the parts they
>supplied for the re-build are the ones that they've been using for quite a
>while and they've not experienced any problems in similar circumstances.
>The man who did the re-build for me has been doing this for many years, and
>he can't remember a Chevy SB taking this long to seat. Any knowledge to
>share, regarding this condition, will be appreciated- lib
>
Finger pointing time with no resolution.