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Alfa 156 JTD



 
 
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  #21  
Old April 9th 10, 12:32 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
SteveH[_2_]
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Posts: 236
Default Alfa 156 JTD

David A Stocks > wrote:

> Someone said cambelts are a problem on the 10v engines. I never noticed, and
> my dealer told me he had never seen one fail. I still had it done at 60K,
> though.


Not a problem, just can be eye-wateringly expensive to replace depending
on who you talk to.
--
SteveH
Ads
  #22  
Old April 9th 10, 11:27 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
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Posts: 742
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:06:16 +0100, Jim > wrote:

>On 08/04/2010 11:58, Zathras wrote:
>> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:18:37 +0100, > wrote:


>> When I hear people criticise others because of what they own, I can't
>> help feeling that jealousy isn't far beneath the surface..


>LOL


Struck a nerve did I??

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #23  
Old April 9th 10, 11:57 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
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Posts: 742
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 00:29:02 +0100, "David A Stocks" >
wrote:

>A mojor difference is fuel consumption - the
>156 gave about 40mpg however it was driven, while the Brera doesn't give
>much over 30mpg, although that's more the fault of the car (very heavy) than
>the engine.


My 3 litre 3 series is a similarly heavy beast but returns high 30s.
What you're seeing is likely the result of generating the 210hp from
that smaller Diesel engine. If you want more hp from a Diesel you need
to pump in more fuel.

IMHO, the only escape for Alfa is a bigger engine - that straight 5 is
as big (height and width) as it can get in a front wheel drive so
they'd need to look at a V6 or go to rear wheel drive. A V6 would be
shorter stroke and that's not particularly helpful in a Diesel. I
haven't heard of plans for either BTW.

I can't help feeling that Alfa have disadvantaged themselves (on the
Diesel front) after a good early start in the 90s, by having the
packaging limitations of front wheel drive. I guess the saviour will
be small capacity, high output turbo petrol engines. In Diesel land,
they can't get the power *and* economy of the bigger boys in town.

>I don't know if there was a version of the 20v engine in the 156 that came
>without the DPF and other emissions related stuff fitted - if there is then
>this could be worth looking out for. The one thing I miss with the later
>engine is the puff of smoke when you floor the accelerator with the engine
>not quite fully warmed up - good for discouraging tailgaters!


That's Governments for you.

>The only bit of grief I had with the 156 engine was a small leak from the
>high pressure fuel rail; it's an expensive part, difficult to get at, and
>all the pipes that connect to it have to be replaced as well. If you can
>smell diesel under the bonnet you could be in trouble.


Not always..my fuel filter always used to seep if it had been hand
tightened (as it was supposed to be). If I used a rubber lasso to get
extra leverage that fixed it.

>Someone said cambelts are a problem on the 10v engines. I never noticed, and
>my dealer told me he had never seen one fail. I still had it done at 60K,
>though.


Same here - low revving engines are good for cam belts.

>The one thing that 'did' for my car, at 10 years and 91,000 miles, was all
>the driveshaft and steering boots/gaiters which perished/split and needed
>replacing. You need a good independent dealer with a cheap hourly rate ...


That sounds reasonable for any car of that age, to me.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #24  
Old April 9th 10, 12:22 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
SteveH[_2_]
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Posts: 236
Default Alfa 156 JTD

Zathras > wrote:

> I can't help feeling that Alfa have disadvantaged themselves (on the
> Diesel front) after a good early start in the 90s, by having the
> packaging limitations of front wheel drive. I guess the saviour will
> be small capacity, high output turbo petrol engines. In Diesel land,
> they can't get the power *and* economy of the bigger boys in town.


I think the 5-pot could be a bit of a technical dead-end, really - but
Alfa stick with it because it's now become an Alfa 'thing'.

A 5-pot is definitely more characterful than a 6-pot (and you can stick
an inline 6 in a transverse car - Volvo manage it) - people generally
forgive Alfas some faults because of the character.

What I'm more puzzled about is why Alfa don't take the Fiat Drivtrain
option of the twin-turbo 2.0 as used by Lancia and, ISTR, Saab - that
would appear to be the ideal way to get 2.4 matching power with 1.9
economy.
--
SteveH
  #25  
Old April 9th 10, 10:42 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Jim[_32_]
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Posts: 68
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On 09/04/2010 11:27, Zathras wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:06:16 +0100, > wrote:
>
>> On 08/04/2010 11:58, Zathras wrote:
>>> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:18:37 +0100, > wrote:

>
>>> When I hear people criticise others because of what they own, I can't
>>> help feeling that jealousy isn't far beneath the surface..

>
>> LOL

>
> Struck a nerve did I??
>

LOL or did I? LOL
  #26  
Old April 9th 10, 11:14 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Jim[_32_]
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Posts: 68
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On 09/04/2010 22:42, Jim wrote:
> On 09/04/2010 11:27, Zathras wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 19:06:16 +0100, > wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/04/2010 11:58, Zathras wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 15:18:37 +0100, > wrote:

>>
>>>> When I hear people criticise others because of what they own, I can't
>>>> help feeling that jealousy isn't far beneath the surface..

>>
>>> LOL

>>
>> Struck a nerve did I??
>>

> LOL or did I? LOL

Jealous of a BMW!!!! LOL

I have two Alfas and have had six. I've had two BMW's and I think
that'll be that!
  #27  
Old April 11th 10, 02:49 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
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Posts: 742
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 12:22:50 +0100, (SteveH)
wrote:

>Zathras > wrote:
>
>> I can't help feeling that Alfa have disadvantaged themselves (on the
>> Diesel front) after a good early start in the 90s, by having the
>> packaging limitations of front wheel drive. I guess the saviour will
>> be small capacity, high output turbo petrol engines. In Diesel land,
>> they can't get the power *and* economy of the bigger boys in town.

>
>I think the 5-pot could be a bit of a technical dead-end, really - but
>Alfa stick with it because it's now become an Alfa 'thing'.


>A 5-pot is definitely more characterful than a 6-pot (and you can stick
>an inline 6 in a transverse car - Volvo manage it) - people generally
>forgive Alfas some faults because of the character.


Alfa barely managed to fit the 5 pot in and had to reduce the turning
circle to manage it. There's minuscule clearance vertically and
horizontally. I'd guess that the block is quite an old design and the
cylinders are relatively far apart - I doubt a straight 6 mod to this
block would fit anything transversely. Alfa can't compete at all
against bigger straight sixes with smaller fours so they keep trying
their best with the 5.

These days straight 6 engines have very close cylinder positioning to
make fitting easier but also to reduce the length of the crank shaft
as much as possible. Fiat could bin the current 5 and do a short 6 but
the trouble is that it might well be a severely nose heavy car as well
as cost investment money for what could end up being a slow seller
with fuel process going the way they are.

What would be interesting would be if they could increase the current
5 to a 3 litre capacity to attempt to compete against the 3 litre
German opposition. Pumping more and more fuel into the 2.4 is going to
fail because many buy diesels for fuel efficiency and there is already
increased competition from smaller capacity turbo petrol engines.

I seriously think Alfa need to split the current diesel engines more
and have a 2 litre and 3 litre motor in the 159 class car. To enable
this in a good handling package, rear wheel drive needs to make a
return. It all sounds a bit pie-in-the-sky to me.

>What I'm more puzzled about is why Alfa don't take the Fiat Drivtrain
>option of the twin-turbo 2.0 as used by Lancia and, ISTR, Saab - that
>would appear to be the ideal way to get 2.4 matching power with 1.9
>economy.


Alfa seem perpetually confused. After all, in the 159 segment, who are
they competing against? Premium German or boggo
Ford/GM/French/Swedish/Japanese? I think they're really competing in
the latter segment because they don't have the packaging flexibility
to compete against,say, the 3 series (which can take small fours all
the way to V eights via straight sixes).

I just wish Alfa could do better but with bugger all dealers and
limited choice of premium saloon car it's an uphill task. I mean,
where were Alfa when the premium saloon knocked the Mondeo into touch?

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
  #28  
Old April 11th 10, 03:00 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
SteveH[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 236
Default Alfa 156 JTD

Zathras > wrote:

> >A 5-pot is definitely more characterful than a 6-pot (and you can stick
> >an inline 6 in a transverse car - Volvo manage it) - people generally
> >forgive Alfas some faults because of the character.

>
> Alfa barely managed to fit the 5 pot in and had to reduce the turning
> circle to manage it. There's minuscule clearance vertically and
> horizontally. I'd guess that the block is quite an old design and the
> cylinders are relatively far apart - I doubt a straight 6 mod to this
> block would fit anything transversely. Alfa can't compete at all
> against bigger straight sixes with smaller fours so they keep trying
> their best with the 5.


I've not looked under the bonnet of the 159, so don't know how
comfortable the 5-pots are in there - I know they're tight in a 156, but
the 159 is a much bigger car.

> These days straight 6 engines have very close cylinder positioning to
> make fitting easier but also to reduce the length of the crank shaft
> as much as possible. Fiat could bin the current 5 and do a short 6 but
> the trouble is that it might well be a severely nose heavy car as well
> as cost investment money for what could end up being a slow seller
> with fuel process going the way they are.


Agreed - 6-pots aren't the way forward. Everyone wants a small capacity
turbo these days.

In the BMW range - the biggest sellers are cars with the 2.0 4-pot
diesel - both in the 1, 3 and 5. (this lump is badged as a 116, 118,
120, 318, 320 and 520, along with the X1 and X3 - don't think the X5 got
the 2.0 option, though)

> What would be interesting would be if they could increase the current
> 5 to a 3 litre capacity to attempt to compete against the 3 litre
> German opposition. Pumping more and more fuel into the 2.4 is going to
> fail because many buy diesels for fuel efficiency and there is already
> increased competition from smaller capacity turbo petrol engines.


Hmmmm, I think 2.4 is pushing the limits of the block already - remember
it was originally a 2.0 5-pot.

> I seriously think Alfa need to split the current diesel engines more
> and have a 2 litre and 3 litre motor in the 159 class car. To enable
> this in a good handling package, rear wheel drive needs to make a
> return. It all sounds a bit pie-in-the-sky to me.
>
> >What I'm more puzzled about is why Alfa don't take the Fiat Drivtrain
> >option of the twin-turbo 2.0 as used by Lancia and, ISTR, Saab - that
> >would appear to be the ideal way to get 2.4 matching power with 1.9
> >economy.

>
> Alfa seem perpetually confused. After all, in the 159 segment, who are
> they competing against? Premium German or boggo
> Ford/GM/French/Swedish/Japanese? I think they're really competing in
> the latter segment because they don't have the packaging flexibility
> to compete against,say, the 3 series (which can take small fours all
> the way to V eights via straight sixes).


I see Alfa in the Volvo / Saab / VW sector. Which appears to be dead on
its feet. They wouldn't want to enter the mainstream with Ford / GM and
the French, can't step up to the BMW / Mercedes class, so sit in that
middle ground.

Strangely, a 159 is a much more attractive package than a Mondeo - you
get a lot more car for your money - but that may be because Ford seem to
be intent on pricing themselves out of the market these days. (Of our
company car proposed list - Prius, Insight and Focus Econetic - the
Focus is the lowest power, lowest spec. and highest price).

> I just wish Alfa could do better but with bugger all dealers and
> limited choice of premium saloon car it's an uphill task. I mean,
> where were Alfa when the premium saloon knocked the Mondeo into touch?


Alfa were there at the start of the Mondeo's decline - think back to how
many 156s were shifted into the fleet market in the late 90s. Sadly the
156 soldiered on for too long before the 159 came along - then Alfa
appeared to lose interest in fleet sales.
--
SteveH
  #29  
Old April 11th 10, 06:39 PM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
R C Nesbit
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Posts: 142
Default Alfa 156 JTD

Zathras spoke:
> Alfa barely managed to fit the 5 pot in and had to reduce the turning
> circle to manage it.


Boggle! my 1.9jtd is bad enough!

--
Rob Pearson
156 1.9jtd sportwagon (now)
164 V6 Lusso (gone)



  #30  
Old April 12th 10, 11:28 AM posted to alt.autos.alfa-romeo
Zathras
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Posts: 742
Default Alfa 156 JTD

On Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:39:50 +0100, R C Nesbit > wrote:

>Zathras spoke:
>> Alfa barely managed to fit the 5 pot in and had to reduce the turning
>> circle to manage it.

>
>Boggle! my 1.9jtd is bad enough!


Yeah but I don't think your motor will have had the wheel arches and
turning circle reduced so that'll take up some of the space freed by
the shorter engine.

--
Z
Scotland
Alfa Romeo 156 2.4JTD Veloce Leather (sold)
'Oil' be seeing you..
(Email must have the word 'Alfa' in the
subject line to get through auto-filtering)
 




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