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What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?



 
 
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  #391  
Old November 6th 17, 04:23 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
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Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?

On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:47:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 11/6/2017 1:18 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>> RS Wood wrote:
>>
>>> I just am saying that nobody in this thread has given any logical reason
>>> why rings would be "better" today than in the days of yore.

>>
>> I think I got cranky.
>> Apologies.
>>

>
>As an alleged engineer you should be ashamed of yourself. Your thinking
>lacks logic too, if you think a 1955 Chevy rings is the same as used
>today.
>
>https://upcommons.upc.edu/bitstream/...pdf?sequence=1

Not to denigrate the GOOD engineers out there - but he sure thinks
like a typical engineer - - - One with no practical experience and a
"god complex" only exceded by orthopedic surgeons.
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  #392  
Old November 6th 17, 04:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
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Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?

On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 10:00:28 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:

>On 11/6/2017 1:13 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Pads, under extremes of heat, give off gases. It is the presence of
>>>> those gases *between* the pads and the disc that prevents the friction
>>> >from happening. The gases make the pads operate more like a hovercraft.
>>>> The slots provide a means by which the gases can quickly escape.
>>>> In a road going car, slotted rotors are probably overkill. Not so on
>>>> high performance vehicles.
>>>
>>>
>>> 100% correct - on both counts.

>>
>> Marketing bull**** and applying racing specifics to street cars is classic
>> bull**** moves, where we've all had this happen to us a billion times.
>>
>> Just show a reliable reference on the entire Internet ... just one ... that
>> proves that without changing anything else ... in a normally driven street
>> car ... which is what we're talking about here ... that any of that above
>> isn't anything other than marketing bull****.
>>
>> Just one reference from the entirety of the Internet.
>> You show it ... I'll read it.
>>
>> Until then, it's marketing bull****.
>>

>
>Doubt you'll believe it anyway.
>
>
https://ebcbrakes.com/articles/what-is-brake-fade/
>
>There are principally 2 common types of formulation for a brake pad
>friction material, organics and sintered metallics (there are also brake
>pads known as ‘semi-metallics’ but these are a ‘hybrid blend’ of the two
>aforementioned friction types and thus have properties that typically
>lie somewhere in the middle). For more information on the different
>brake pad constructions read our article ‘How to make brakes’.
>Organic brake pads inherit their name from the organic phenolic resins
>used to bind together the different compounds used in the pads
>construction. There are countless different types of thermoset phenolic
>resin, but they can all be generally considered to have a maximum
>temperature up to which they are thermally stable. Above its intended
>maximum operating temperature, just like any organic matter, the
>phenolic resin used as the binding agent becomes altered by the heat and
>effectively ‘boils’, expelling an appreciable volume of gas as it
>degrades. (The actual technical term for this process is sublimation,
>since once the phenolic material reaches the critical temperature it
>jumps from its original solid state and changes instantaneously to a
>gas, with no detectable liquid phase).
>


Basically almost smoke!!!

>The dominant mechanism causing brake fade is this thermal degradation of
>the phenolic resins and other materials in the friction lining, which
>create a film of gas at the pad-rotor interface and effectively causes
>the brake pad to skid off the disc. As these gasses build up at the
>pad-rotor interface, they produce an appreciable backpressure which
>creates an opposing force to the brake caliper that is trying to hold
>the pads against the rotor. If there is no way for the gasses to escape,
>the opposing force as a result of the outgassing can become large enough
>to prize the pads away from the rotor, reducing the area of pad in
>contact with the rotor and thus reducing braking power (i.e. brake fade).


And also making the pedal a bit "spongy" from trying to squeeze the
gas.

  #393  
Old November 6th 17, 04:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 202
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/6/2017 12:28 AM, Xeno wrote:
> On 6/11/2017 3:48 PM, RS Wood wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>> Lot of us keep a car until repair cost exceeds book value.
>>>
>>> I trade my cars in when I'm sick of them.

>>
>> For me, I get a new car when the old car has a repair that isn't worth
>> paying. That's less likely nowadays as I'm retired on a low budget.
>>

> I've been buying new cars since retirement - two last year.
>


Never bought two in one yer even when my wife was still driving. She
usually got my hand me down. I just bought a new car two weeks ago. I
honestly can't give you a valid reason for doing so other than I like
the color better.

The guy that gets my old one with 38k miles is getting a real cream puff.
  #394  
Old November 6th 17, 04:42 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 202
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/5/2017 11:48 PM, RS Wood wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> Not just mufflers any more. They were smart enough to evolve into other
>> auto services like brakes, shocks, and the like. As cars get more
>> sophisticated the more you have to rely on the dealer also. My Genesis
>> was dealer service because the local guy could not get the right oil
>> filter for it. The NAPA nest door did not carry it as it is a low
>> volume item.

>
> I agree on Midas Muffler because they do other stuff and there is no way
> they're staying in business on just mufflers nowadays.
>
> I disagree on the dealer being required for anything.
>
> To me, the dealer is whom you go to when you're under the original factory
> warranty and then that's the last time you ever go do the dealer.
>
> I have nothing against the dealer except one thing, which is why they're
> called the 'stealer'. But that's a biggie.
>
> The only other reason you go to the dealer is to buy parts that they might
> stock where you need them now (e.g., you broke a bolt or forget a gasket
> and you're in the middle of the job) but expect to pay more than double for
> those parts than anywhere else.
>
> I go to an indy for alignment and clutch and tires, etc., where I couldn't
> imagine payking the price for the same job at the dealer.


Any shop can do a starter, water pump, but most don't have the expertise
for some of the electronics. Dealer may be 1 hour at $75 versus the
indy at $50 but takes three hours to figure out the problem. If my
adaptive cruise control stopped working I'm not trusting the corner gas
station.
  #396  
Old November 6th 17, 04:58 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
The Real Bev[_5_]
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Posts: 570
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/05/2017 08:05 PM, Frank wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Nov 2017 02:42:59 +0000, RS Wood wrote:
>
>> What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have
>> never done?
>>
>> Mine are, in this order of "I wish I could do it" order 1. painting 2.
>> alignment 3. replace/rebuild engine 4. clutch replacement 5. tire
>> mounting and balancing 6. timing belt 7. head gasket and vcg
>>
>> I've done electrical, brakes, shocks, cooling systems, alternators,
>> ujoints, pitman/idler arms & tie-rod ends and ball joints, tuneups,
>> emissions hoses and sensors, exhaust, electrical components, fuel pumps,
>> and fluids, but not the six things above.
>>
>> What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have
>> never done?

>
> I've never painted a car. I suppose some day I'll give rebuilding an
> automatic transmission a shot, but I've been lucky so far.


After an unfortunate shifting incident in Arkansas, we hobbled in to a
local repair shop in Fort Smith and had the pleasure of watching the guy
rebuild the motorhome trans by hand. He had Parkinson's, but it
disappeared while he was working. I swear he looked like a machine
programmed to pick gears up and put them down in exactly the right place.

> I've done things ring and bearing jobs but everything is holding up
> better nowadays.


In life there are always tradeoffs :-(


--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal
  #397  
Old November 6th 17, 05:02 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
The Real Bev[_5_]
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Posts: 570
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/05/2017 05:27 PM, Frank wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Nov 2017 04:38:39 +0000, RS Wood wrote:
>
>> Interesting that it's not better design of engines.

>
> Alot of the old motors used to have hot spots, such as exhaust ports and
> the manifold heat riser on V type engines, which would coke up the oil
> quickly. This coked up oil would plug up oil passages and an old motor
> could be partially starved for oil even if it was full of clean, clear
> oil.
>
> The heat riser could be designed out of EFI engines.


It's amazing how far one can be thrown when it's discovered that its
stuckness is the cause of the engine overheating.

> 10W 40 would coke up faster than 10W 30, for what it's worth.


--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal
  #398  
Old November 6th 17, 05:24 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
Ed Pawlowski
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Posts: 202
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/6/2017 10:23 AM, wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Nov 2017 09:47:23 -0500, Ed Pawlowski > wrote:
>
>> On 11/6/2017 1:18 AM, RS Wood wrote:
>>> RS Wood wrote:
>>>
>>>> I just am saying that nobody in this thread has given any logical reason
>>>> why rings would be "better" today than in the days of yore.
>>>
>>> I think I got cranky.
>>> Apologies.
>>>

>>
>> As an alleged engineer you should be ashamed of yourself. Your thinking
>> lacks logic too, if you think a 1955 Chevy rings is the same as used
>> today.
>>
>>
https://upcommons.upc.edu/bitstream/...pdf?sequence=1
> Not to denigrate the GOOD engineers out there - but he sure thinks
> like a typical engineer - - - One with no practical experience and a
> "god complex" only exceded by orthopedic surgeons.
>


Intelligent people question
Arrogant people think the know everything.
  #399  
Old November 6th 17, 05:25 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
The Real Bev[_5_]
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Posts: 570
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do buthave never done?

On 11/05/2017 08:48 PM, RS Wood wrote:
> The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> If the vibration decreases, or markedly changes character, or even goes
>>> away, then how could it possibly have been rotor warp in the first place?

>>
>> I wish I could remember when I stopped noticing it. I might have done a
>> hard stop to test whether the seat belts were still working properly...

>
> It's impossible to diagnose brake-related judder/shudder/vibration on the
> Internet - but - most of the time - the cause is the simplest most obvious
> reason.
>
> You drive hard on the highway and then stop hard at the bottom of an exit
> ramp at a light where you sit there with your foot on the brake for a
> period of time.
>
> Guess what happens?
>
> For a hard-to-understand reason, the teeeniest tiniest pad imprint tends to
> grow over time. I don't really understand why, but it does. It gets almost
> imeasurably larger over time, until you finally feel it while braking at
> speed.


My mom had a heavy foot, but I don't think she was given to braking
hard. My mom drove the car to work (7 mile round trip) on surface
streets. I first noticed it at around 50K miles.

She had the car "serviced" (as in "screwed") by the dealer 4x/year. He
replaced all the rubber at 20K. Would he have removed brake deposits too?

> What's the solution?
> Simple.
>
> SHORT TERM: Scrape that deposit off.
> LONG TERM: Change your braking habits.
>
>>> Q: Is a $50K rolex watch a better watch than a $30 Timex watch?
>>> A: The watch that keeps better time is the better watch.

>>
>> Ha. My $25 Casio atomic solar watch has been providing accurate time
>> since 2008 with no attention whatsoever. The beautiful 195x Omega
>> Seamaster is sitting in a box somewhere because it needed to be cleaned
>> every couple of years. Apparently the lubricant breaks down -- it
>> doesn't seem that dirt could get into a waterproof watch. I guess it
>> was accurate, I didn't have anything to check it against but the nice
>> lady on the phone who told me the time.

>
> I have a few Rolex watches (most received as gifts).
> They suck at keeping time.


Friends in Santa Rosa had one in their half-refrigerator-size safe. The
fire popped it open and everything inside burned/melted, including what
might have been a Rolex; why else would you keep a watch in a safe?

> For brake pads, the thing you care about is friction, cold and hot.
> Nothing else is close in importance (although dusting is key for some).
>
> So pick your pads by what the OEM pads were and try to meet or exceed that.
> Most pads are around FF but every pad says what it is or it can't be sold
> in the USA.
>
> The (SAE J866a) charts are all over the net.
> Just look for 'brake pad friction ratings' or something like that.
>
>> I drive roughly 4K miles/year and front pads on other cars generally
>> were OK for 40K miles (rear shoes double that). ~20K now. I'll
>> remember this just as long as I can :-)

>
> Life is one thing but the *primary* factor in brake pads is friction.
>
> I buy $35 PBR pads with FF or GG friction ratings which last 30K miles or
> so and the dust isn't objectionable.


I'm a lousy housekeeper. I regard dust as a protective coating. What
kind of people find brake pad dust objectionable? What kind of people
even notice it?

> So my factors a
> a. Friction rating (anything less than FF is worthless)
> b. Non-objectionable dust (the only way to know is to ask owners)
> c. Decent life (the only way to know is to ask owners)
>
> Friction Coefficient Identification System for Brake Linings
> <http://standards.sae.org/j866_200204/>


TMI here!


--
Cheers, Bev
"Qui custodiet ipsos custodes?" --Juvenal
  #400  
Old November 6th 17, 05:34 PM posted to alt.home.repair,rec.autos.tech,sci.electronics.repair
RS Wood[_2_]
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Posts: 191
Default What are some car-repair jobs you always wished you could do but have never done?

wrote:

>>As an alleged engineer you should be ashamed of yourself. Your thinking
>>lacks logic too, if you think a 1955 Chevy rings is the same as used
>>today.
>>
>>
https://upcommons.upc.edu/bitstream/...pdf?sequence=1
> Not to denigrate the GOOD engineers out there - but he sure thinks
> like a typical engineer - - - One with no practical experience and a
> "god complex" only exceded by orthopedic surgeons.


On page 10 of that example the Master's Thesis covers the set of piston
rings, where nothing said is the least bit complex.

The author talks about the compression and oil ring, and that each has its
purpose. He talks about the location of the piston ring. And that the first
ring takes 75% of the pressure.

The paper suffers enormously from lack of English language skills, which is
to be expected in a paper from Europe, where, for example this is a
verbatim sentence:
"The choice of the number of rings should be the result of careful
analysis, with one hand, depends on to the gas that passes into the
crankcase should be the minimum, on the other, the number of rings
determines the mass of the piston, engine height and friction losses."

But that's as "technical" as the paper gets with respect to piston rings,
which makes the paper essentially a summary of piston rings that anyone who
isn't even an engineer could easily do.

Then the guy shows a diagram of piston rings in action, with a few typos
(so the paper isn't all that well reviewed), and then he talks about how
bad it is to have burnt oil.

The only slightly technical thing in the paper is a chart of clearances for
the sealing and scraper rings that he clearly crobbed off the net somewhere
and where he doesn't discuss any of the engineering tradeoffs involved.

On page 34 he defines a temperature for each of three rings (finally
spelling the word "scraping" correctly) and then he shows a trivially
simple picture showing, essentially the same thing (so why does he do it?).

That's it for page 34, so we move on to page 49 and page 50 for the last
discussion of the piston rings.

On page 49, he seems to be covering the same thing, in effect, as he did on
page 34, starting with the verbatim sentence "The piston rings take a very
important place when cooling the piston." Um. OK. Tell us something we
didn't know before we read the paper please.

He then chooses a heat for the piston crown that is high, saying the rings
won't work at that temperature based on his simulations, but that they work
at a lower temperature. Um. OK. (This is basic high-school level stuff.)

Lastly, on page 50, he tells us "Increase the high of the scrap ring in
order to adjust to reality". He doubled the height from 3mm to 6mm and lo
and behold, it worked where it didn't work at 3mm! (Notice the tolerances
here ... we're talking *huge*.) He also added channels to the rings which
is, again, high-school stuff.

In summary, while I am not going to fault the guy for his poor English, I
will fault someone for not reviewing the poor English - because it just
means that this paper is not a reliable paper because it was clearly not
reviewed.

Worse ... this paper didn't say *anything* that any high-school student
doesn't know, about piston rings. The changes he made were enormous, where
all he simulated was that it didn't work before he made the enormous
changes, and then it did work when he did.

Let's get back to reality, shall we.
I never said that the design of *anything* is super complex at the stage of
designing the perfect system. I even said that a spark plug is complex at
that level.

But at the level of using the thing in fixing a car, you already have very
limited choices since all you're doing is fixing a car. To say that fixing
a car by replacing piston rings is scientifically complex is just pure
bull****.

And it's even worse that you backed up that claim with a high-school level
paper (yes, I know it's a thesis but that doesn't change the sophomoric
level of the paper).

As an engineer, I'd be embarrassed if I claimed that paper said anything
that is even remotely related to proving that, in practice, the selection
of replacement rings for repairing an engine in your driveway is in the
least bit complex.

I give up if anyone thinks that paper proved otherwise because I'm only
using very basic logic here because that's all I do.
 




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