for the guys that are into recreational oil changing...

"C. E. White" > wrote in message
>
> While eveyone should make their own decisions on this, I can think of a
> few "reasonable" reasons why it is useful to at least let people know 3000
> mile oil changes are not usually beneficial:
>
> 1) To counteract the constant din from compnies like Jiffy-Lube that have
> brainwashed gnerations of people into thinking you must change your oil
> every 3000 miles.
>
> 2) To make people aware that cars and oils are much better than was the
> case when their Fathers used to change their oil.
>
> 3) Becasue some people are concerned about the environement and don't like
> seeing all that perfectly good oil being drained from engines.
>
> 4) Just becasue we want people to know the facts so they can make an
> informed decision.
>
> Ed

What most people want, I think, is to have a car that goes when you turn
the key, and doesnt crater before you are ready to trade it in and get a
new one, all at a miraculously low price.

We probably keep our cars longer than most people. 8-10 years for
us is not unusual. And I want minimum trouble.

I use the oil change interval recommended by the maker, no matter what
an oil analysis might indicate. If I err, it tends to be on the side of
changing
sooner than later.

But as you say, everyone must make that decision for himself. It's your
car, do what you want with it.

On 31/03/10 5:33 PM, Bob Jones wrote:

<snip>

> - Driving less than 5 miles per trip or less than 10 miles per trip in
> freezing temperatures.
> - Driving in extreme hot (over 90F) conditions.
> - Extensive idling or long periods of stop-and-go driving.
> - Driving in muddy, dusty, de-iced, or mountain roads.
>
> I believe they apply to most drivers in this country. Are you saying no?

The 5 or 10 miles per trip is if you _exclusively_ do short trips. Ditto
for idling and stop and go driving. What they're worried about is that
the water that accumulates in the oil will not be vaporized. A freeway
drive of 30 minutes or so will take care of the problem with water
condensing into the oil.

That's why an interval of 7500 miles or six months, whichever occurs
first, is a better spec. It takes into account drivers that are doing
short trips only by default.

Jiffy Lube tries to convince everyone that they qualify for "severe
service" but don't fall for it.

On Mar 31, 11:34*am, SMS > wrote:
snip
> You're not increasing your engine's life by changing your oil every 2000
> or 3000 miles versus 5000 miles.

Did you bother to follow JB's link and read the suggested oil change
intervals he is promoting?
Based on your sentence above, obviously not.

"hls" > wrote in message
...
>
> "C. E. White" > wrote in message
>>
>> While eveyone should make their own decisions on this, I can think
>> of a few "reasonable" reasons why it is useful to at least let
>> people know 3000 mile oil changes are not usually beneficial:
>>
>> 1) To counteract the constant din from compnies like Jiffy-Lube
>> that have brainwashed gnerations of people into thinking you must
>> change your oil every 3000 miles.
>>
>> 2) To make people aware that cars and oils are much better than was
>> the case when their Fathers used to change their oil.
>>
>> 3) Becasue some people are concerned about the environement and
>> don't like seeing all that perfectly good oil being drained from
>> engines.
>>
>> 4) Just becasue we want people to know the facts so they can make
>> an informed decision.
>>
>> Ed
>
> What most people want, I think, is to have a car that goes when you
> turn
> the key, and doesnt crater before you are ready to trade it in and
> get a
> new one, all at a miraculously low price.

I can't remember anyone in my family ever trading in a car becasue the
engine was worn out. It always sem to be other stuff that finally
makes the car/truck undesirable.

> We probably keep our cars longer than most people. 8-10 years for
> us is not unusual. And I want minimum trouble.

I tend to get tired of vehicles sooner than that, although there are
exceptions. But on the farm I usually keep things forever. My oldest
tractor is 30 years old and still on the original engine. I change the
oil in it every 150 engine hours or so. I figure this is roughly
comparable to 5000 mile oil changes, although the usage is more severe
than what you would see in a car.

> I use the oil change interval recommended by the maker, no matter
> what
> an oil analysis might indicate. If I err, it tends to be on the
> side of changing
> sooner than later.

When I had a Saturn with the oil life monitor, I was concnerned that I
wasn't changing the oil often enough. I am not sure I ever actually
waited until the light come on to change the oil. However one time
when the oil had over 7500 miles of use, I decided to send a sample
off to be analysed (I used Blackstone Labs). The analysis showed the
oil still qualified as a 5W30 oil with minimal contamination. The
report indicated that it was good until at least 10,000 miles. Of
course I had already changed it at that point. At other times I pulled
samples from other vehicles I own (or the SO owns) including a Nissan
Frontier, a Ford Fusion, a Ford Expedition, and a Toyota RAV4. All had
around 5000 miles on the oil at the time I pulled the samples for
analysis. In every case the analysis claimed the oil was still good
for many more miles.

Changing oil at 3000 mile intervals is a hard habit for me to break.
However, I have the perfect test case in my family - my older sister.
Until she got cars with oil change indicators, she never remembered to
change her oil at all and I had to constantly remind her. Before the
oil change indicators, she would often exceed 10,000 miles on a
change. With her newer cars, she never changed the oil befor ethe
reminders, so her last Honda never got oil changes sooner than every
7500 miles. When she got rid of it last year, it had over 150,000
miles on the odometer. The car was a POS, but the engine started
perfectly and ran fine. I can't see how changing the oil more oftne
could have benefited her. So, with her new Toyota, I feel she is in
fine shape. It has a reminder that comes on every 5000 miles.

People always blame 3000 mile oil changes on the wisdom of their
Fathers and/or mechanics. My Father always complianed that I changed
oil too often (and on the farm changing tractors can get expensive).
He thought 5000 miles was soon enough. My favorite mechanic agrees,
5000 miles is plenty soon, and he has a financial interest in
encouraging more often changes. One of my neighbors uses synthetic oil
in his Silverado HD diesel. He changes the filter every 5000 miles,
but only changes the oil every 10,000 miles. The truck has nearly
100,000 miles and likely will be beat into a pile of junk before the
engine give up (he uses it to pull trailers frequently).

Ed

On Apr 1, 12:39*pm, ACAR > wrote:

The link Dr. Beam provides indicates a 10,000 mile oil change interval
for cars.
It goes on to say "Mileage can be extended furthest in gasoline
engines by using higher quality motor oils containing a high total
base number (TBN)."

So anything less than 10,000 miles between oil changes is recreational
and unnecessary according to the OP.
Not 2000, not 3000, not 5000, not 7500 miles.

Tegger wrote:
>
> jim > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> >
> > Tegger wrote:
>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Your entire reply is very difficult to understand, is filled with
> >> negatives stacked upon negatives, and appears to my faulty brain to
> >> be pretty much ill-thought-out gibberish.
> >
> > Try reading it slowly - it isn't that complicated.
>
> Try writing more clearly. I don't care to wade repeatedly through lousy
> writing; I have to do enough of that at work.


Obviously watching US TV has reduced your reading skills to very low
level.

I'll put it in terms that even a simpleton should be able to understand.

Somebody said

"These minute particles pose no danger to
your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."

I responded that although that holds true most of the time there can be
unusual circumstances where those fine particles do cause harm.

-jim

"Obveeus" > wrote in
:

>
> "Tegger" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Obveeus" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health
>>> problems.
>>
>> Question for you: What's a "chemical"?
>
> Did that statement really need to read as: 'Exposure to all the
> *harmful* chemicals also causes many health problems.' for you to
> understand it?
>
>


So "chemical" and "harmful" are one and the same to you?

Define "chemical".

--
Tegger

jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt,net> wrote in
:


>
> I'll put it in terms that even a simpleton should be able to understand.


Thank you for accommodating me.


>
> Somebody said
>
> "These minute particles pose no danger to
> your engine, but they cause the oil to darken."
>
> I responded that although that holds true most of the time there can be
> unusual circumstances where those fine particles do cause harm.
>


That statement is much more clearly written than your previous jumble.


--
Tegger

"Tegger" > wrote:

> "Obveeus" > wrote in

>> "Tegger" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Obveeus" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Exposure to all the chemicals also causes many health
>>>> problems.
>>>
>>> Question for you: What's a "chemical"?
>>
>> Did that statement really need to read as: 'Exposure to all the
>> *harmful* chemicals also causes many health problems.' for you to
>> understand it?
>
> So "chemical" and "harmful" are one and the same to you?

Clearly, the above does not say that. Why are you acting stupid?

> Define "chemical".

No desire to play your little agenda game. Defining 'chemical' will in no
way lead to a greater depth of dicussion on why it is bad to needlessly
expose yourself to harmful chemicals. Keep cleaning/disinfecting your home
hourly if you believe that it won't/can't hurt you.

On Mar 29, 5:41*pm, jim beam > wrote:
> http://www.dtsc.ca.gov/TechnologyDev...High-Efficienc...
>
> shock, horror, they used oil analysis to arrive at these recommendations!
>
> --
> nomina rutrum rutrum



Interesting point: "The HE filters used in this study claimed
filtration of particles to 1-2 [microns], much better than standard
filters of 30-50 [microns]. Using standard filters is one reason that
motor oil needs to be changed; it gets dirty with small particles
which results in engine wear. In this regard, standard filters have
not improved over the years compared to significant improvements in
motor oil quality. The oil change interval set in warranties is a
result of standard filters being the limiting factor, not the motor
oil quality. Hence, higher quality filters will help to extend motor
oil life to its full potential."

This raises the question: would it be safe to keep engine oil for
10,000 miles if you replace JUST the oil filter every 5,000 miles?

Is an HE filter necessary? Oil analysis comparisons of the HE Fram X2
filter vs. a normal CarQuest filter would have been nice.

Maybe I can do an experiment with my '96 Camry (176k miles). For my
wife's car, the 5,000 mile oil change will remain...

Michael