Finally joined the GPL Nurburg 500 sec club

I hear they still have the ability to run old NR#3, so we can hope 03 is
around as long...

ymenard enlightened us with:
> "Jeff Reid" > wrote
>> Since all NR2003 related code belongs to iRacing now, I'm suprised
>> that Sierra has kept their server up this long.
>
>
> They still do it for Tribes 1, which was released in 1998!
>
>
>
>
> --
> -- François Ménard <ymenard>
> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
> Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Rather than moving on to the other tracks immediately I suggest you try to
> match your time in another chassis while you are still dialled in to the
> track. You can use pretty well the same basic setup for all cars with some
> minor tweaks to allow for weight distribution, gearing etc. Try making a
> copy of your lo1 (lotus F1) setup file & renaming it to co1, fe1 or whatever
> to save copying everything between setups.

I pretty much do that already. Springs at 120/90, differential 85/45/5
(other times 85/45/4). Sway bar total around 350, (170 rear 180 front for
the Lotus, just to make it easier to drive), camber -.025 all the way
around. Front toe in is +0.125 (I don't understand why toe out at the
front would be used on any track bigger than a parking lot).

> If you can match your time in any other car, when you go back to the Lotus
> you'll probably set another PB, and so on. I did this for about 4 years to
> get my first sub-8, it takes a great deal of patience and time though.

I'm sure I could probabaly get close in the Eagle (I had previously
gotten a faster time in the Eagle once). The Ferrai wouldn't be so bad,
but then there's the BRM.

"Jeff Reid" > wrote in message
news:1FDVe.234305$E95.174471@fed1read01...

> I pretty much do that already. Springs at 120/90, differential 85/45/5
> (other times 85/45/4). Sway bar total around 350, (170 rear 180 front for
> the Lotus, just to make it easier to drive), camber -.025 all the way
> around. Front toe in is +0.125 (I don't understand why toe out at the
> front would be used on any track bigger than a parking lot).

Everyone's style is different but imo that's way too stiff for nurby, even
my Silv setups aren't that stiff. You only need stiff shocks & a healthy
dose of ARB at either end. With the chassis that stiff the car must be hard
to control over the crests & won't have much mechanical grip. You don't need
toe-in on the front, just a touch of toe-out to help the turn-in and
whatever toe-in at the back to balance the car against the diff.

Try a softer setup with stiff shocks, and a 60/45/1 diff & see how you get
on. It may not suit you but if it does you'll hopefully find the car is much
more forgiving /on the limit/. Fewer little errors, faster laptimes.


> > If you can match your time in any other car, when you go back to the
Lotus
> > you'll probably set another PB, and so on. I did this for about 4 years
to
> > get my first sub-8, it takes a great deal of patience and time though.
>
> I'm sure I could probabaly get close in the Eagle (I had previously
> gotten a faster time in the Eagle once). The Ferrai wouldn't be so bad,
> but then there's the BRM.

Try the Brab or Cooper then, or whichever your 'other' car is. Most people
have two that they drive more than the others, for me it's the Lotus &
Cooper. If you can match your PB in the Eagle you'll still have improved but
you won't learn as much that way because it behaves more or less the same as
the Lotus.

Malc.

> Everyone's style is different but imo that's way too stiff for nurby, even
> my Silv setups aren't that stiff. You only need stiff shocks & a healthy
> dose of ARB at either end. With the chassis that stiff the car must be hard
> to control over the crests & won't have much mechanical grip. You don't need
> toe-in on the front, just a touch of toe-out to help the turn-in and
> whatever toe-in at the back to balance the car against the diff.

I'm taking advantage of the fact that GPL's grip isn't affected by
overall stiffness. If you look at the transition between Greger Huttu's
GH1 and GH2 setups, you can see he switched to stiffer setups. Alison Hine
goes ballistic, with spring rates at over 150 (using the editor). To
keep the car from pogoing, I set rebound rates to 5, (bump rates are
3 front, 4 rear).

Assuming a car doesn't have inverse Ackerman steering, the inside front
tire can't take as much slip angle as the outside front tire, because
of the rolling torque force putting more downforce on the outside tire.
To reduce the slip angle on the inside tire, toe-in is used (at least
in real life, toe-out is used for auto-cross on parking lot sized tracks).

In GPL, if front braking balance is around 52% (I'm using a conservative
55%), toe-out at the front can stabilize a car under heaving braking.
GPL has this wierd reaction to steering inputs under heavy braking with
this setup. Slam on the brakes, peg the wheel right, and the car ends up
yawing left.



> Try a softer setup with stiff shocks, and a 60/45/1 diff & see how you get
> on. It may not suit you but if it does you'll hopefully find the car is much
> more forgiving /on the limit/. Fewer little errors, faster laptimes.

That's a lot of lift throttle oversteer. Even xx/30/1 is pretty loose
for lift throttle. I'm using twin joysticks (left throttle/brake), right
for steer, and when braking, the engine braking is at the max, so I have
to be careful about lift throttle oversteer setting.

>> I'm sure I could probabaly get close in the Eagle (I had previously
>> gotten a faster time in the Eagle once). The Ferrai wouldn't be so bad,
>> but then there's the BRM.
>
> Try the Brab or Cooper then, or whichever your 'other' car is. Most people
> have two that they drive more than the others, for me it's the Lotus &
> Cooper. If you can match your PB in the Eagle you'll still have improved but
> you won't learn as much that way because it behaves more or less the same as
> the Lotus.

If it was just one other car, I'd probably go with the Brabham. Seems like
most of the longer races were done using either the Lotus or the Brabham.

> Try a softer setup with stiff shocks, and a 60/45/1 diff & see how you get
> on. It may not suit you but if it does you'll hopefully find the car is much
> more forgiving /on the limit/. Fewer little errors, faster laptimes.

I'll give it a shot though.

Regarding the toe out and front brake balance around 53% weirdness,
I made a video a long time ago. It's like driver induced understeer,
except it happens on a straight.

http://jeffareid.net/cgi-bin/gplrs.wmv

Malc wrote:

>>Did another session, down to 8:15.32 (just barely legal,
>>there's a 2 wheels on the track rule, and at one spot, my
>>inside tires were just barely on the outside paint).
>
> Having two wheels on the track is only essential for a WR, for anything else
> it's just something to aim for. Nurby is hard enough without worrying about
> stuff like that.


Oh - I set all my best laps like that, on all tracks. If all wheels are
off track, I don't even count it.


In fact, I also *race* like that. I've won more than 100 online GPL
races driving like that, and not in one replay will you see my car ever
leave the track, or spin.


(It's a tic, I know - the result of my start in racing, aeons ago. I was
doing r/c racing at the time, and our "asphalt" track was very rough and
set in a grass field. Once you dared to go off, you were basically out,
stuck in sand or grass, and no one would put you back into the race.

That's when I learned the "to finish first you gotta first finish" rule
- the hard way. Now I can't drive otherwise anymore... )


Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -24)

On Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:56:19 -0700, "Jeff Reid"
> wrote:

>> The 500 second club refers to getting a sub 8:20 lap time
>> in Grand Prix Legends at Nurburg Ring. My new time is
>> just under 8:19 (8:18.77).
>
>Did another session, down to 8:15.32 (just barely legal,
>there's a 2 wheels on the track rule, and at one spot, my
>inside tires were just barely on the outside paint).
>That's probably going to be it for right now, as the other
>10 tracks need relative improvement.
>


Nice improvement in such a short time!

Eldred