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Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?



 
 
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  #281  
Old December 4th 08, 11:46 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Steve[_1_]
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Posts: 3,043
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Frank ess wrote:
>
>
> Steve wrote:
>> Brent wrote:
>>
>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down
>>> the car now.

>>
>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the
>> choice of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....
>>
>> The final decision should rest with the driver. But the driver
>> should KNOW what the implications of that decision are.

>
> You'd expect that to be true in every aspect of motoring, and "on
> average" it's true -- isn't it? Seems to be working out satisfactorily,
> or the society would change standards for participation as a driver --
> wouldn't it?


Society has been changing the standards for participation as a driver.
In the wrong direction.

My grandparents were born before the automobile, but had absolutely no
problem monitoring a cluster of analog gauges with no lights or audible
warnings in their early cars. Just read the newsgroups for a while
today, and you'll see countless questions from idiots to the effect of,
"My car won't run anymore and my oil light's been on for a while, do you
think it might be related...?" There are people so ignorant today that
they can't even tell you whether the car won't start because the starter
won't turn the engine, or whether the engine is cranking but won't fire.
They don't even seem to know the difference, its actually a real-world
manifestation of the "I turn the key and it goes" mentality we used to
make blonde jokes about, but didn't REALLY believe existed.

And the fact that basic driver's education is not offered in schools
anymore in many states (I'll vouch for Texas, we've already heard from
NJ and CA) is further evidence that "society" tolerates really lousy
drivers on the roads.
Ads
  #282  
Old December 4th 08, 11:50 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Steve[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,043
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>> Brent wrote:
>>
>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>> car now.

>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....

>
> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>


Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."
  #283  
Old December 5th 08, 12:16 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Ray O[_2_]
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Posts: 213
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?


"E. Meyer" > wrote in message
...
>
> On 12/4/08 12:32 PM, in article
> ,
> "Vic Smith" > wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 10:10:30 -0800, SMS >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ray O wrote:
>>>> "SMS" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>>>>> SMS > wrote:
>>>>>>> A lot more engines are destroyed by a loss of coolant than "worn
>>>>>>> out"
>>>>>>> oil. My nephew destroyed a three year old BMW X5 by not knowing or
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> noticing the temperature gauge, after the water pump started
>>>>>>> leaking.
>>>>>> This is unfortunately a known issue on these cars. But in Driver's
>>>>>> Ed,
>>>>>> didn't your nephew get taught to run his eyes across the gauges every
>>>>>> couple minutes and make sure everything was okay? You gotta watch
>>>>>> them.
>>>>> There is no more driver's ed in schools.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Our local high school still offers driver's ed.
>>>
>>> Wow, where's that?
>>>
>>> When I think back to drivers ed in high school, where we'd go four to a
>>> car on the regular roads, with two students in the back seat, while
>>> another student drove, and the instructor was riding shotgun, I can just
>>> imagine the screams of horror by parents if this were to happen today.

>>
>> As far as I know driver's ed is still a HS graduation requirement in
>> Illinois.

>
> When did they start doing that? It certainly was not a graduation
> requirement in Illinois when I went to high school there. It was offered
> in
> most schools, but only as an extra cost after school activity.
>


Driver's ed was not a HS graduation requirement when I went to HS in IL
either, but it was for my 3 youngest so the change was put in place some
time after the 1970's.
--

Ray O
(correct punctuation to reply)


  #284  
Old December 5th 08, 12:53 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Brent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,430
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>>> Brent wrote:
>>>
>>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>>> car now.
>>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....

>>
>> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>>

>
> Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
> 'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
> you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
> flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
> switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
> looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
> paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."


What do these idiots do when the ignition module cuts out?

Or better yet, when the engine ultimately siezes up from overheating?


  #285  
Old December 5th 08, 12:53 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Brent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,430
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:

> And the fact that basic driver's education is not offered in schools
> anymore in many states (I'll vouch for Texas, we've already heard from
> NJ and CA) is further evidence that "society" tolerates really lousy
> drivers on the roads.


tolerates? I say encourages.


  #286  
Old December 5th 08, 12:55 AM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Vic Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 953
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:55:07 GMT, "E. Meyer" >
wrote:


>> As far as I know driver's ed is still a HS graduation requirement in
>> Illinois.

>
>When did they start doing that? It certainly was not a graduation
>requirement in Illinois when I went to high school there. It was offered in
>most schools, but only as an extra cost after school activity.
>

Don't know when they started.
I recall they were permitted at 15 - at school - got initial
instruction at school, and had to spend some hours driving with a
licensed driver - it was sometimes me, sometimes my wife - then
did the test at school when they were 16.
They just picked up the license at the DMV.
DMV randomly tests some dates - my son caught that so was tested
twice.
They didn't even offer it when I was in school.
My last two graduated in 2002 and 2003.
It was required. Just like the Constitution test.

--Vic
  #287  
Old December 5th 08, 04:20 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Steve[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,043
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

Brent wrote:
> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>> Brent wrote:
>>> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>>>> Brent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>>>> car now.
>>>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>>>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....
>>> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>>>

>> Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
>> 'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
>> you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
>> flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
>> switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
>> looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
>> paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."

>
> What do these idiots do when the ignition module cuts out?
>
> Or better yet, when the engine ultimately siezes up from overheating?
>
>


Brent, you're making sense. Stop it. Now think like a lawyer:

Those incidents you mentioned are "acts of God" and you can't win a
lawsuit based on them.

But if the computer SHUTS DOWN the engine BY DESIGN, well my-oh-my,
that's willful murder on the part of the manufacturer! Now we've got a
CASE!!
  #288  
Old December 5th 08, 05:14 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
E. Meyer
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 174
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?




On 12/4/08 5:55 PM, in article ,
"Vic Smith" > wrote:

> On Thu, 04 Dec 2008 21:55:07 GMT, "E. Meyer" >
> wrote:
>
>
>>> As far as I know driver's ed is still a HS graduation requirement in
>>> Illinois.

>>
>> When did they start doing that? It certainly was not a graduation
>> requirement in Illinois when I went to high school there. It was offered in
>> most schools, but only as an extra cost after school activity.
>>

> Don't know when they started.
> I recall they were permitted at 15 - at school - got initial
> instruction at school, and had to spend some hours driving with a
> licensed driver - it was sometimes me, sometimes my wife - then
> did the test at school when they were 16.
> They just picked up the license at the DMV.
> DMV randomly tests some dates - my son caught that so was tested
> twice.
> They didn't even offer it when I was in school.
> My last two graduated in 2002 and 2003.
> It was required. Just like the Constitution test.
>
> --Vic


I guess I'm just too old. There was no constitution test when I went to HS
in Illinois either (class of '68). I do remember the last time I had to
drive in Illinois I observed a near universal disregard for virtually all
the rules of the road and near total lack of enforcement that would have
blown our minds back in the '60s.

  #289  
Old December 5th 08, 05:47 PM posted to rec.autos.tech,rec.autos.makers.ford.mustang,alt.autos.toyota
Brent[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,430
Default Best no BS motor oil/filter comparison?

On 2008-12-05, Steve > wrote:
> Brent wrote:
>> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>>> Brent wrote:
>>>> On 2008-12-04, Steve > wrote:
>>>>> Brent wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> with computer controls it would be entirely software to shut down the
>>>>>> car now.
>>>>> And the first time someone gets killed because he didn't have the choice
>>>>> of sacrificing his engine to get to a safe spot....
>>>> I wasn't implying a hard cut off, 'now' meant in the present day.
>>>>
>>> Yes... but does it make a difference? If the computer shuts the car off
>>> 'now' or 'in 30 seconds,' its still out of the driver's control. I know
>>> you mentioned an override switch, but I can still see the lawsuits
>>> flying. "I got all scared when the warning went off, I couldn't find the
>>> switch, so I looked around for it and hit a guardrail while I was
>>> looking down, and then a truck hit me, my passenger was killed and I'm
>>> paralyzed. The carmaker owes me 300 million dollars."

>>
>> What do these idiots do when the ignition module cuts out?
>>
>> Or better yet, when the engine ultimately siezes up from overheating?
>>
>>

>
> Brent, you're making sense. Stop it. Now think like a lawyer:
>
> Those incidents you mentioned are "acts of God" and you can't win a
> lawsuit based on them.
>
> But if the computer SHUTS DOWN the engine BY DESIGN, well my-oh-my,
> that's willful murder on the part of the manufacturer! Now we've got a
> CASE!!


A good lawyer could sue for faulty water pump design or poorly made
ignition modules too


 




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