Adaptive Headlights

bfd wrote:

> How does the the H1 bulb compare to the Toshiba Halogen Infrared Reflective
> (HIR) bulbs

The HIR bulbs are more efficient (more lumens per watt) and produce
more light than H1 bulbs. They give a scarce combination of high output
*and* long life -- that's why they're expensive; magic does not come
cheaply! However, the two types can only be compared on a conceptual
level for they are not physically interchangeable. The HIR1 bulbs can
be modified to fit in place of 9005 (HB3) bulbs, and the HIR2 bulbs can
be modified to fit in place of 9006 (HB4) bulbs in HEADLAMPS (not fog
lamps -- way too much glare), but that is the extent of the non-spec
swap potential for these bulbs. No H1 swaps, no H7 swaps, etc.

Candlepower (www.candlepowerinc.com ,yucky website but you can fish
contact info out of it) has them in stock in North America.

> Nevertheless, if you're buying a brand new BMW and have a choice of
> purchasing the adaptive Xenon HID headlights at the bargain price of $800,
> you are a fool if you don't get it!

Agreed!

DS

In article .com>, Daniel
J. Stern > wrote:
> > > > the sure thing is the tungsten filament bulb's days are numbered.

> > > Not likely. Over 75% of the new-vehicle fleet in the first world are
> > > still factory equipped with tungsten-halogen headlamps, and while
> > > HID and LED headlamps will gradually increase their market share,
> > > they are unlikely to comprise a majority of headlamps on the road in
> > > the foreseeable future.
> >
> > I'd say you have a rather typical view from some that the energy
> > consumption of car lighting doesn't matter.

> Oh, would you? Well, me, I'd say I didn't see you at the V.I.S.I.O.N.
> automotive lighting research and development symposium last week in
> Rouen. And, come to think of it, I don't recall seeing you at the GRE
> (Groupe de Rapporteurs d'Éclairage, the UN international working group
> on automotive lighting regulation) meeting in Geneva or ISAL
> (International Symposium on Automotive Lighting) in Darmstadt last
> autumn, or at any of the National Academy of Sciences Transportation
> Research Board annual conferences over the last five years. I'm sure
> you attended at least some of these...right? So, you would've
> participated in at least some of the same roundtable discussions, heard
> some of the same paper presentations, gone on some of the same night
> demonstration drives, reviewed some of the same data, spent time
> talking with the same researchers, regulators, scientists, R&D
> chiefs...

> ...oh, you weren't at any of those? Fancy that.

Fine. And you still say the tungsten bulb will be with us forever? Have
you not considered the safety angle of replacing them with LEDs for tail
lights, etc?

When discharge headlights first appeared they were a rare and expensive
option on luxury cars. Now you'll find them available on shopping hatches.
It doesn't take too much foresight to see the price dropping 'till they
are standard on most cars. Might not be good news for aftermarket
sales of headlights etc, though.

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article .com>,
Daniel J. Stern > wrote:
>bfd wrote:
>
>> How does the the H1 bulb compare to the Toshiba Halogen Infrared Reflective
>> (HIR) bulbs
>
>The HIR bulbs are more efficient (more lumens per watt) and produce
>more light than H1 bulbs. They give a scarce combination of high output
>*and* long life -- that's why they're expensive; magic does not come

How many lumens per watt? Comperable to fluorescent or mercury vapour
or hihg presure sodium? Or are they still in the halogen range?

How do they work?

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net

"Richard Sexton" > wrote in message ...
> In article .com>,
> Daniel J. Stern > wrote:
> >bfd wrote:
> >
> >> How does the the H1 bulb compare to the Toshiba Halogen Infrared Reflective
> >> (HIR) bulbs
> >
> >The HIR bulbs are more efficient (more lumens per watt) and produce
> >more light than H1 bulbs. They give a scarce combination of high output
> >*and* long life -- that's why they're expensive; magic does not come
>
> How many lumens per watt? Comperable to fluorescent or mercury vapour
> or hihg presure sodium? Or are they still in the halogen range?
>
> How do they work?
>
Basically, HIR bulbs work like any other bulb. The HIR bulbs replace the 9005 (high) 9006 (low) bulbs on E34 and E36 cars. According to one website, the 9012 HIR low bulb puts out 1875 lumen and the 9011 HIR high bulbs put on 2500 lumens:

http://www.hirheadlights.com/stats.htm

Roundel also did a favorable review of HIR bulbs:

http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Tem...e_Be_E36_Light

The only thing is HIR bulbs are like $25 each or $100 for a set of 4. Not exactly cheap, but its supposedly better than other brands like Silverstars.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> Fine. And you still say the tungsten bulb will be with us forever?

Please don't put words in my mouth-wait til after the first date,
thanks.

But the filament lamp will be with us for a very long time to come. In
this field, old technology has a tendency to hang around for many years
after the introduction of newer technology aimed at replacing the old.

> Have
> you not considered the safety angle of replacing them with LEDs for tail
> lights, etc?

I have indeed, and I've written on it extensively. Your point...?

> When discharge headlights first appeared they were a rare and expensive
> option on luxury cars.

The series-production introduction of discharge headlamps was about 15
years ago. Market penetration worldwide hovers at around 20% overall
(lower in North America, a little higher in Europe, a lot higher in
Japan).

> It doesn't take too much foresight to see the price dropping 'till they
> are standard on most cars.

Actually, what's more likely to occur is that LED headlamps will cross
the cost-effectiveness barriers before HIDs do. It's easier to foresee
a worldwide market in 2 decades' time consisting of perhaps 40 to 60
percent tungsten-halogen, 15 to 25 percent HID and the rest LED.

DS

Richard Sexton wrote:

> >The HIR bulbs are more efficient (more lumens per watt) and produce
> >more light than H1 bulbs. They give a scarce combination of high output
> >*and* long life -- that's why they're expensive; magic does not come
>
> How many lumens per watt?

HIR2, 31 to 33 lumens per watt
HIR1, 36 to 39 lumens per watt

For comparison:

H1, 24 to 26 lumens per watt
HB4 (9006), 17 to 19 lumens per watt

> How do they work?

Spherical bulb glass rather than tubular, with multilayer dichroic
coating that reflects IR and passes visible light. Filament at centre
of sphere, so IR is reflected back onto filament, heating it up hotter
than it can be heated by a given electric current, giving greater
luminance without the sharply negative effect on filament life that
comes with increasing luminance by means of increased wattage.

DS

bfd wrote:

> Basically, HIR bulbs work like any other bulb.

Well, sure, in that there's a glowing filament in a halogenated
atmosphere. The reason why their luminous efficacy is so much higher is
the infrared-reflective nature of the envelope (glass). See my post in
response to Sexton.

> Roundel also did a favorable review of HIR bulbs:
> http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Tem...e_Be_E36_Light

I spent quite a bit of time on the phone and in front of the computer
(and at the post office) contributing to that article. It came out
pretty well, even the parts I didn't help with ;-)

> The only thing is HIR bulbs are like $25 each or $100 for a set of 4. Not exactly cheap, but its
> supposedly better than other brands like Silverstars.

Sylvania Silverstar bulbs are a scam, just like all the rest of the
blue-glass "extra white" bulbs. They produce less light over a shorter
lifespan, at a premium price, all in exchange for an abstruse,
marketeer-fabricated notion of looking "cool". See data at
http://tinyurl.com/hlwvq

DS

See

In article .com>,
Daniel J. Stern > wrote:
> > Fine. And you still say the tungsten bulb will be with us forever?

> Please don't put words in my mouth-wait til after the first date,
> thanks.

Let me remind you of what you wrote in reply to me:-

*************************

DP the sure thing is the tungsten filament bulb's days are numbered.

DS Not likely. Over 75% of the new-vehicle fleet in the first world are
still factory equipped with tungsten-halogen headlamps, and while HID
and LED headlamps will gradually increase their market share, they are
unlikely to comprise a majority of headlamps on the road in the
foreseeable future.

*****************

Either their days are numbered or they'll last forever. Which is it?

--
*Why are a wise man and a wise guy opposites?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> > > Fine. And you still say the tungsten bulb will be with us forever?

> > Please don't put words in my mouth-wait til after the first date,
> > thanks.

> Let me remind you of what you wrote in reply to me:-

> *************************
> DP the sure thing is the tungsten filament bulb's days are numbered.
>
> DS Not likely. Over 75% of the new-vehicle fleet in the first world are
> still factory equipped with tungsten-halogen headlamps, and while HID
> and LED headlamps will gradually increase their market share, they are
> unlikely to comprise a majority of headlamps on the road in the
> foreseeable future.
> *****************

Foreseeable future != forever.

DS

In article >,
Dave Plowman (News) > wrote:
>Either their days are numbered or they'll last forever. Which is it?

Both. New cars will migrate away but it is also true that
filament lamps will always be around for older cars.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net