Shifter extremely tight after ATF change

"MR M.R." > wrote in
news
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the transmission
> will need to be completely torn down and thoroughly cleaned before
> being filled back up with the correct fluid.

Well, you're wrong. Oils mix, so draining the 90 weight out as much as
possible, and filling it with the correct oil will cure the problem. Oil is
oil, no matter what, and they will all mix.

elaich wrote:
> "MR M.R." > wrote in
> news >
>> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the transmission
>> will need to be completely torn down and thoroughly cleaned before
>> being filled back up with the correct fluid.
>
> Well, you're wrong. Oils mix, so draining the 90 weight out as much as
> possible, and filling it with the correct oil will cure the problem. Oil is
> oil, no matter what, and they will all mix.


I have heard different from a Mustang racer/builder/shop owner and
have read it here and elsewhere as well. Maybe someone with a better
memory or who is willing to do the research will tell you what is in the
gear oil that will damage which part in I know the T-5, possible or
possibly not in later transmissions.

On Apr 14, 9:00*am, "WindsorFox<[SS]>" >
wrote:
> elaich wrote:
> > "MR M.R." > wrote in
> >news
>
> >> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the transmission
> >> will need to be completely torn down and thoroughly cleaned before
> >> being filled back up with the correct fluid.
>
> > Well, you're wrong. Oils mix, so draining the 90 weight out as much as
> > possible, and filling it with the correct oil will cure the problem. Oil is
> > oil, no matter what, and they will all mix.
>
> * * I have heard different from a Mustang racer/builder/shop owner and
> have read it here and elsewhere as well. Maybe someone with a better
> memory or who is willing to do the research will tell you what is in the
> gear oil that will damage which part in I know the T-5, possible or
> possibly not in later transmissions.

WELL I GOT REALLY SCREWED. ( My fault for trusting idiots and not
doing my homework). The shop charged me $110 for a tranny flush and I
just found out that there is NO SUCH THING as a flush for a manual
tranny. (OK laugh, but I'm just not a big tranny expert). I'm going
back to the shop today to get my $$ back and it will get ugly
probably.

A "real" mechanic that changed my clutch recently told me that all I
have to do is drain, put in ATF, drive around a few days and repeat.
The oil return holes in my T5 are too small for the thicker oils.
Earlier T5s could take ATF and thicker oils with no problems. Too bad
I found this out just now. So to recap, I paid for a "fake" flush and
for wrong oil for my 2000 GT. My ass is still sore. Just hope this
thread helps someone in the future.

"WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in news:gs21dv$qgl
:

> I have heard different from a Mustang racer/builder/shop owner and
> have read it here and elsewhere as well.

The only thiing that could cause a problem is some kind of additive in the
gear oil. It does have a very odd smell.

Even at that, ATF is extremely detergent in nature. Fill the tranny, drive
it around enough to get hot, drain it, and refill. All traces of any former
oil will be gone.

"WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
...
> Mark G7#9 wrote:
>>>>> Big Al wrote:
>>>>>>> I've been inside a T-45 but not a T-5 and I didn't notice anything
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> solid parts, nothing that appeared coated or bonded... or are you
>>>>>>> talking about a surface treatment... like a case hardening?
>>>>>> No. In a T-5, first and second synchronizers are three peice. Look at
>>>>>> this:
>>>>>> http://www.mackstrans.com/images/dia...45-Diagram.jpg
>>>>>> Look at 83, 83A and 83B. 83A would be the lined part.
>>>>>> Made me work to find that picture
>>>>>> Al
>>>>> That's a cool web site! Says the t-5 uses a paper lined 1-2 syncro and
>>>>> the t-45 uses a carbon lined friction ring.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>> They changed from Mercon to 90W gear oil (the tech claimed that on
>>>> manuals with over 100K this is much better and he has a few manual
>>>> Stangs). It's still a bit tight when cold but is very smooth later.
>>> So, you're saying you have a T-45 and a "mechanic" put 90 wt gear
>>> oil in it??
>>>
>> The manual says 2000 GT has a T50 D tranny. You guys are scaring me. I
>> didn't find anything on the web that says gear oil will damage the
>> T50.
>> Just to review, I had the original ATF swapped (with tranny flush as
>> well) for synthetic after 104K. It was very hard to shift when cold
>> after the swap, so the mechanic (at no charge), put in thicker oil
>> (I'm not sure if it's 90W, but he called it gear oil). The tech
>> claimed that all his manual cars (including a nice BMW M3) had gear
>> oil and it was only tight when they are cold but get very smooth
>> later. If I go back for the 3rd time, I'm pretty sure I'll get into a
>> big fight. Do they really need to flush again to put in ATF?
>
> Ok, I'm not touching that, I'd be glad to tell you what I would have
> done instead, but that's water under the bridge. If it were me I would
> make 1000% sure it had ATF in it.
>

Checkout this;
says gear oil too thick to get through passeges cold
http://www.pomoforacing.com/tech/Pre...T45rebuild.pdf

"Mark G7#9" > wrote in message
...
On Apr 14, 9:00 am, "WindsorFox<[SS]>" >
wrote:
> elaich wrote:
> > "MR M.R." > wrote in
> >news
>
> >> Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that the transmission
> >> will need to be completely torn down and thoroughly cleaned before
> >> being filled back up with the correct fluid.
>
> > Well, you're wrong. Oils mix, so draining the 90 weight out as much as
> > possible, and filling it with the correct oil will cure the problem. Oil
> > is
> > oil, no matter what, and they will all mix.
>
> I have heard different from a Mustang racer/builder/shop owner and
> have read it here and elsewhere as well. Maybe someone with a better
> memory or who is willing to do the research will tell you what is in the
> gear oil that will damage which part in I know the T-5, possible or
> possibly not in later transmissions.

WELL I GOT REALLY SCREWED. ( My fault for trusting idiots and not
doing my homework). The shop charged me $110 for a tranny flush and I
just found out that there is NO SUCH THING as a flush for a manual
tranny. (OK laugh, but I'm just not a big tranny expert). I'm going
back to the shop today to get my $$ back and it will get ugly
probably.

A "real" mechanic that changed my clutch recently told me that all I
have to do is drain, put in ATF, drive around a few days and repeat.
The oil return holes in my T5 are too small for the thicker oils.
Earlier T5s could take ATF and thicker oils with no problems. Too bad
I found this out just now. So to recap, I paid for a "fake" flush and
for wrong oil for my 2000 GT. My ass is still sore. Just hope this
thread helps someone in the future.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
checkout this link,
says gear oil too thick for small passages in a T45
http://www.pomoforacing.com/tech/Pre...T45rebuild.pdf

Take the guys to small claims court, they did not follow MFGRs requirements,
screwed up you car.
They have insurance for this type of stuff, no sweat off their nose.

I have about 150k miles on my 93 5.0 and have not change any fluid in manual
transmission, probably orgional.
Should I change it out?

On Apr 14, 11:44*am, "chuck" > wrote:
> "WindsorFox<[SS]>" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mark G7#9 wrote:
> >>>>> Big Al wrote:
> >>>>>>> I've been inside a T-45 but not a T-5 and I didn't notice anything
> >>>>>>> but
> >>>>>>> solid parts, nothing that appeared coated or bonded... or are you
> >>>>>>> talking about a surface treatment... like a case hardening?
> >>>>>> No. In a T-5, first and second synchronizers are three peice. Look at
> >>>>>> this:
> >>>>>>http://www.mackstrans.com/images/dia...45-Diagram.jpg
> >>>>>> Look at 83, 83A and 83B. 83A would be the lined part.
> >>>>>> Made me work to find that picture
> >>>>>> Al
> >>>>> That's a cool web site! Says the t-5 uses a paper lined 1-2 syncro and
> >>>>> the t-45 uses a carbon lined friction ring.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> They changed from Mercon to 90W gear oil (the tech claimed that on
> >>>> manuals with over 100K this is much better and he has a few manual
> >>>> Stangs). It's still a bit tight when cold but is very smooth later.
> >>> * * So, you're saying you have a T-45 and a "mechanic" put 90 wt gear
> >>> oil in it??
>
> >> The manual says 2000 GT has a T50 D tranny. You guys are scaring me. I
> >> didn't find anything on the web that says gear oil will damage the
> >> T50.
> >> Just to review, I had the original ATF swapped (with tranny flush as
> >> well) for synthetic after 104K. It was very hard to shift when cold
> >> after the swap, so the mechanic (at no charge), put in thicker oil
> >> (I'm not sure if it's 90W, but he called it gear oil). The tech
> >> claimed that all his manual cars (including a nice BMW M3) had gear
> >> oil and it was only tight when they are cold but get very smooth
> >> later. If I go back for the 3rd time, I'm pretty sure I'll get into a
> >> big fight. Do they really need to flush again to put in ATF?
>
> > * *Ok, I'm not touching that, I'd be glad to tell you what I would have
> > done instead, but that's water under the bridge. If it were me I would
> > make 1000% sure it had ATF in it.
>
> Checkout this;
> says gear oil too thick to get through passeges coldhttp://www.pomoforacing.com/tech/PreliminaryT45rebuild.pdf- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I drove about 150 miles on it. Maybe the damage has not been done yet.
I got some Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF today and will swap it
myself. Thanks for the input guys.

Mark G7#9 wrote:

> I drove about 150 miles on it. Maybe the damage has not been done yet.
> I got some Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF today and will swap it
> myself. Thanks for the input guys.

You should definitely change that fluid, but I just was wondering in
what way is this "Shifter extremely tight" do you mean? Is it hard to
row in between the gears? Is it hard to slide from the 1-2 position over
to the 5-R? Or is it hard to push it into any certain gears? Is it
grinding?

On Apr 14, 2:04*pm, GILL > wrote:
> Mark G7#9 wrote:
> > I drove about 150 miles on it. Maybe the damage has not been done yet.
> > I got some Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF today and will swap it
> > myself. Thanks for the input guys.
>
> You should definitely change that fluid, but I just was wondering in
> what way is this "Shifter extremely tight" do you mean? Is it hard to
> row in between the gears? Is it hard to slide from the 1-2 position over
> to the 5-R? Or is it hard to push it into any certain gears? Is it
> grinding?

When cold, it's very hard to shift into any gear. (My wife couldn't
get out of garage in reverse, but I'm a strong buck :-) . After a few
minutes, everything feels ok. I did smell some burning oil as well,
but I thought it was normal after a new change.

I didn't speak to the shop yet, but I'm wondering if by "flush", they
meant that they put in some cleaning fluid and let it drain before
putting in new oil. I just want to make sure I'm not a total a-hole
when I yell at them to try get my $$ back. They have always done good
work before and as far as not using the correct fluid, I think they
just didn't know that newer T5s always need ATF. In fact one guy
wanted to use ATF, while the other "expert" advised on gear oil since
it is what he uses on his M3 Beemers. I just didn't have enough info
to argue. Most of their business is from regular oil changes.

On Apr 14, 2:04*pm, GILL > wrote:
> Mark G7#9 wrote:
> > I drove about 150 miles on it. Maybe the damage has not been done yet.
> > I got some Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF today and will swap it
> > myself. Thanks for the input guys.
>
> You should definitely change that fluid, but I just was wondering in
> what way is this "Shifter extremely tight" do you mean? Is it hard to
> row in between the gears? Is it hard to slide from the 1-2 position over
> to the 5-R? Or is it hard to push it into any certain gears? Is it
> grinding?

While on the topic, if I take off the shifter, can I just pour the ATF
into the hole or is there another smaller opening somewhere on top I
need to use? I read that this is less trouble than using the fill plug
on the tranny.