Racing Legends cancelled.

Well put J. Todd. BTW, I thoroughly enjoy Virtual RC Racing, please be sure
to thank Tony for me, okay? <wink, wink>

--
See ya in the pits,
Dean

I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how
long it's been since I've forgotten anything.

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> You are saying my friends are full of hot air?
>
> Uh oh... I'm about to have a moment... Must... resist......
>
> GAH!! I can't help myself!
>
> Do you know what time it is?
>
> It's story time, boys and girls!!
>
> "Weeee! A story!"
>
> Billy-Blu-Bob lived in a beautiful neighborhood in Lawnville, USA.
> Everyone mowed their lawn twice per week. People tried all sorts of
> different things to make their lawn the most beautiful lawn in
> Lawnville.
>
> One day, Joe-Red-Bob (Billy-Blu-Bob's cousin) asked his
> wife,"Rickie-Red-Bob, would it be ok if I cut the lawn shorter? I
> think that might be more beautiful than Billy-Blu-Bob's lawn!"
>
> Rickie-Red-Bob replied, "Sure Joe-Red-Bob, that'd be fine with me!
> You're so smart! I bet that would make our lawn the most beautiful
> lawn in all of Lawnville!"
>
> With Rickie-Red-Bob's blessing, Joe-Red-Bob lowered his mower from the
> 1-1/2" cutting height everyone else in Lawnville used to only 1" and
> mowed his whole lawn. It was more work because the lawn was being cut
> much shorter than anyone else's lawn in Lawnville, but Joe-Red-Bob and
> Rickie-Red-Bob knew it was worth it. And sure enough, after he
> finished his hard work, everyone in Lawnville agreed that Joe-Red-Bob
> had the most beautiful lawn in Lawnville!
>
> Now, the people in Lawnville were very smart people. Joe-Red-Bob was
> smart. But Billy-Blu-Bob's brains brittled and bounced with brand new
> ideas.
>
> Billy-Blu-Bob asked his wife, a (big boobed blonde babe), "Hey
> Brandie-Blu-Bob, how would you like me to cut our lawn even shorter?
> I'll cut it to 3/4" height. That will be 25% more work, but
> Brandie-Blue-Bob, it will be worth it! We'll have the most beautiful
> lawn in Lawnville!"
>
> Brandie-Blu-Bob replied, "Sure Billy-Blu-Bob!!"
>
> Billy-Blu-Bob got to mowing. When he was finished, everyone agreed
> that Billy-Blu-Bob had the most beautiful lawn in Lawnville!
>
> Now, up the street was a feller by the name of Timmy. Timmy didn't
> really fit in. His name was wierd and he was a cartoon character from
> SouthPark, which wasn't anywhere near Lawnville. But, he was sure a
> smart feller! He had been watching what was going on and loved his
> lawn even more than anybody in Lawnville loved their own.
>
> One sunny day, he went to his wife and announced,"Tammy, I know what's
> going on. The shorter the grass is, the more beautiful the lawn! I'm
> going to build a special lawn mower that will cut the grass to only
> 1/4" height! Then, our lawn will be the most beautiful lawn in
> Lawnville for a very long time! Why, their lawn mowers can't even cut
> the grass that short!"
>
> Tammy said, "Timmy! That's a great idea! But you've never built a
> lawn mower before! Nobody in Lawnville has ever built their own
> lawnmower before! Only the people in Capitol Riches and Tunza
> Resources have ever built their own lawnmowers!"
>
> "Don't worry Tammy, I can do it!" exclaimed Timmy.
>
> Sure enough, Timmy built the lawn mower and started mowing. He had a
> very big lawn to mow for a little guy in a wheelchair, but he kept at
> it, refusing to give up. Surprisingly, he mowed just as fast as the
> guys in Capitol Riches and Tunza Resources!
>
> After he had half the lawn mowed, a neighbor stopped by and could not
> believe what he was seeing. The grass was so short! It was impossible
> to make grass that short! There wasn't a lawnmower in the whole world
> that could do it! And it was so much more beautiful than any lawn he
> had ever seen! The neighbor told some other neighbors. Timmy told
> some others. Before long, Timmy's lawn was the talk of Lawnville.
>
> "It's beautiful!"
>
> "I've never seen anything like it!"
>
> "This is going to be the most beautiful lawn in Lawnville!"
>
> "How did you do it?"
>
> "When will you be finished?"
>
> "What's it going to feel like to walk on that very short grass?"
>
> Timmy told them how he was doing it. He told them how he built his own
> lawnmower. He told them how the lawnmower worked, what it was built
> from, how it was constructed, how the special blades worked. He told
> them all about it! Anyone who asked him a question got an answer.
> This was very unusual for such a breakthrough in lawncare technology.
> Nobody that built lawnmowers in Capitol Riches and Tunza Resources ever
> talked about how their lawnmowers worked with anybody. Tammy knew
> this. And it was beginning to make her nervous.
>
> Even the folks at the Lawnville radio station, K-GRAS, interviewed him.
> He was in the magazines and newspapers (they write very fast in
> Lawnville). People on the internet talked about it after seeing
> pictures and movies of the finished parts of his new lawn.
>
> But after some time, some of the neighbors became impatient. They
> never actually watched a giant lawn the size of Timmy and Tammy's giant
> lawn get mowed on a daily basis. They normally would drive out to the
> rich parts of Lawnville and see the really big lawns when they were
> finished.
>
> "Come on, how long does it take to mow your lawn? With that special
> mower it should be done by now!"
>
> Later still, while Timmy was still mowing along, wishing he had thirty
> or fourty people helping him like the other people with really big
> lawns in Lawnville had, Tammy took him aside and confided in him.
>
> "Timmy, I don't feel comfortable with you talking to all of these
> people. You're telling them everything. Nobody else in Lawnville, and
> especially Capitol Riches or Tunza Resources does this. We didn't do
> this in SouthPark either. You're even telling them how your lawn mower
> works and how you built it. What if somebody in Capitol Riches or
> Tunza Resources catches on, builds a mower like yours, and mows a lawn
> as beautiful as the one you're making? Please Timmy, stop telling
> everyone what you're up to. Stop sending people pictures all the time,
> doing interviews, and all of this stuff. Wait until you're almost
> finished and then I will tell them about it for you, ok? Trust me, I
> know how to handle these things better than you."
>
> Timmy begrudingly obeyed Tammy and stopped talking to the neighbors
> about his lawn.
>
> Some time later, after noticing that Timmy never popped his head over
> the back yard fence any more (the front yard was finished, anyone who
> bothered to walk by could see the beautiful lawn), they began wondering
> where he was. They wrote Timmy letters and called him. But he obeyed
> Tammy's wishes and ignored them. It tore his heart out, but he had no
> choice.
>
> Before long, people became impatient. Then angry. Then downright
> hostile. Had Timmy led them along and pulled some sort of prank?
> Where in the world was he? Why wasn't he talking to anyone anymore?
>
> People began to think he had disappeared. They couldn't see over his
> backyard fence to see him mowing, and Tammy wouldn't let him out until
> it was done.
>
> The began to think it would never be finished.
>
> "It'll never be finished!"
>
> "You'll never finish!"
>
> "Are you going to finish?"
>
> Timmy didn't care what they said, he just wanted to have the most
> beautiful lawn in Lawnville, so he kept right on mowing his backyard
> behind the fence. It was just a matter of time now. The mower worked
> great and he knew how to use it. If people snuck through his back gate
> and asked how he built his lawn mower or wanted to see pictures of the
> finished parts of his back lawn, he would still happily show them, but
> not to the mean ones because they made Timmy sad. And when Timmy was
> sad it wasn't as fun to mow his lawn. It was bad enough that Tammy
> wouldn't let him talk to the people of LawnVille anymore until he was
> done.
>
> Outside the fence, angry mobs gathered.
>
> "You're going too slow!!"
>
> "Hurry up!"
>
> "I want to see your lawn!"
>
> "Can I try walking on your lawn before you're done mowing it?"
>
> (To avoid attracting attention from Tammy, Timmy said quietly, "No, you
> can walk on it when it's finished.")
>
> "But it'll never be finished!"
>
> Timmy rolled his eyes. He was sure it would. It was almost done. The
> mower worked beautifully. He was a little confused though why these
> very same people who had seen movies of the mower and lawn working were
> doubting that the lawn mower even existed, but nevermind. He had a job
> to do.
>
> "Timmy, you're full of hot air!!" screamed Joe-Red-Bob.
>
> "Timmy is full of hot air!!" screamed Joe-Red-Bob.
>
> Then, something terrible happened.
>
> The sky got dark. Creepy black clouds rolled in, blocking the sun.
> Thunder boomed in the distance. It could only mean one thing. Timmy
> turned his head slowly towards the house, fearing the worst.
>
> "Timmy!!!" shouted Tammy, bursting frantically through the side door.
>
> "I've changed my mind! I don't want you to mow the lawn that short
> with your special mower! It's too unlike the other lawns in Lawnville!
> It's beautiful, yes, but that short grass will prickle and tickle your
> feet and get dirt between the Lawnville kids' toes! My sister is here
> and she thinks the same thing!"
>
> "But Tammy!!" cried Timmy, "You said I could do it! You promised it
> was okay and you've supported it all along!"
>
> Off in the distance behind the fence, Joe Red Bob angrily shouted to
> the Lawnville Mob, "Timmy is full of hot air! Just you watch, he won't
> finish the lawn. Mark my words!"
>
> Tammy, who didn't hear Joe Red Bob, shook her head and admitted, "I
> just walked on the other side that you've finished. The grass is too
> short. I know it's more beautiful than any other lawn in Lawnville,
> but it's too hard to walk on this very short grass without it tickling
> or scratching your feet! It's uncomfortable. It's not like the other
> lawns."
>
> Timmy was stunned. He had worked so hard for so long and without any
> help like the people of Capitol Riches and Tunza Resources had, and his
> lawn was just as big as theirs! He even built his own lawn mower for
> the job. Was what he was hearing true?
>
> "But Tammy, everybody in Lawnville loves short grass! I've figured it
> out! The shorter the grass, the more the people in Lawnville love the
> lawn! These people like to have their feet tickled. They like it when
> they itch. And I've already told everyone I would do it because you
> said I could!"
>
> Tammy, shrugging her shoulders, retorted, "I know what I said. I'm
> sorry, but I've been thinking about this a lot and realize that even
> though the lawn is the most beautiful lawn in all of Lawnville, our
> friends in SouthPark don't like it when their feet are tickled. Yes, I
> know Lawnville people like that, but where we're from people like
> longer grass. There are more people in SouthPark than Lawnville, so
> I'm sorry, but my decision is final."
>
> Tammy added, "You can't finish our lawn if you're going to do it this
> way. Stop wasting time right now and let it grow back to the height
> everyone else in Lawnville has. That's the right height for people in
> Southpark, where all our friends are."
>
> Tammy, squinting one eye and wagging her finger slowly from side to
> side, continued slowly, "And don't you even think about going out and
> telling everyone that I'm the one that made you stop. I'll not have
> the neighbors thinking I'm a bad person for changing my mind. My
> sister happens to be right, so just shut up, let it grow long like
> everyone else's is, or get out of this house."
>
> A bicycle sped past. Joe Red Bob, standing on the seat getting a brief
> glimpse of the unfinished back yard, snapped a picture and proclaimed
> to the mob, "See? I told all you people! He's full of hot air!"
>
>>From that day forward, nobody in Lawnville believed a word Timmy said,
> except Tammy and the people that visited the back gate without a camera
> so as not to get Timmy in trouble with Tammy. Timmy was determined to
> have his beautiful, one of a kind 1/4" lawn though. He decided not to
> sit around and let it grow back, but instead left Tammy.
>
> Tammy wouldn't let Timmy use the mower for a year or two until she
> could afford a new one (Timmy's mower could still cut the grass to any
> height like any other mower), so Timmy had to build a new mower, find a
> new lawn, and start all over. This time he wouldn't have Tammy around
> to stop him or get in the way. And Timmy had learned so much building
> that first mower and mowing most of his lawn in Lawnville with it that
> he was sure he could do much better the second time. But of course,
> since Timmy never finished the first lawn, nobody believed him when he
> said he was working on a second one.
>
> There were a few that believed him though. The ones that had been to
> his house to walk on the lawn knew it was real , still unlike any other
> lawn because the grass in the front was only 1/4" long, and knew how
> beautiful it was. They hung around and Timmy kept them updated. But
> even though he and Tammy had split up he didn't do K-GRAS radio shows
> or newspaper interviews or anything public any more. Joe Red Bob and
> his friends believed Timmy was full of hot air, and had convinced most
> of the rest of the neighborhood. Joe Red Bob was a smart guy, but he
> enjoyed riding his bike up and down the street shouting and reminding
> the people of Lawnville that Timmy's lawn never got finished so much
> that he never cared to find out what happened. He just assumed Timmy
> had lied. Joe Red Bob never thought that Tammy might have been behind
> the whole thing all along.
>
> Hmm... Maybe Joe Red Bob wasn't as smart as he thought he was.
>
> Before too long, some clever investigators in a small magazine checked
> into the "Timmy Lawn Scandal," or "TLS" as it became known around
> Lawnville. They wrote an accurate, factual news story about how Tammy
> had stopped Timmy from finishing the lawn and forbid him from telling
> anyone about it. Everyone in Lawnville read the story, including Joe
> Red Bob, but the people of LawnVille for some reason did not believe
> the story was true.
>
> By then, Timmy didn't concern himself with what they thought or said
> anymore. All he wanted was to have his beautiful lawn, built with his
> special lawn mower.
>
>
> THE END :-)
>
>
> And even a child could understand this :-) (Hmmm... Maybe I should
> quit my gig and write kiddie books...)
>
> J. Todd Wasson
> http://www.PerformanceSimulations.com
> http://www.VirtualRC.com
>

"Gregor Veble" > wrote in message
...
>I don't want to sound arrogant, but before labeling people why don't you do
>some research first. I wouldn't normally post stuff like this, but the sim
>racing community is something I hold dear and, like many others, I "miss
>the old days" of r.a.s. as well. It used to be a place of interesting
>debates about what the name of the groups suggests, namely simulating cars.
>You could also be sure that plenty of developers, researchers etc. read the
>newsgroup in those days, something I currently find increasingly unlikely.
>
> It's quite apparent you were not a part of r.a.s. at that point, or you'd
> know that, unlike your suggestion that I did absolutely nothing for the
> community, I helped quite a few independent and not so independent
> developers with little tidbits of the limited knowledge I have. I won't be
> saying any names, Google it up if you're really interested. If this sounds
> pretentious, be it so; it's still much more true than anything I've seen
> you post on this newsgroup.
>
> -Gregor

I'm sorry you mistook what I wrote. I said "I" had contributed nothing to
the community apart from buying loads of sim racers.

And this is exactly what you said, a newsgroup. Not developers corner. Not a
place where the favoured few hang out and "wink" knowingly at each other.
I have no pretensions to be part of anything like that. All I care about are
the games and info relating to those games. If "Racing Legends" is truly
still a going concern, which I very much doubt, then I'll take an interest
in that. Unless it's, as proposed years ago, exorbitantly expensive.

Ah, OK, my bad indeed. <looks around if anyone saw the blunder;
unfortunately most everyone did>

About r.a.s.; it never was a developer's corner, though it was also a
very much lively place for that sort of discussion. It was a place where
sensible discussion about inner and outer workings of car simulators
took place, with very little noise despite the number of posts being
much more than these days. I can see you don't really care much about
this social aspect. Allow me to say that I believe you may be missing
half the fun of this hobby.

About your proposed attitude towards Racing Legends; that's exactly the
idea, one should take interest in it when it's released (or thereabout),
no sense in talking about it at this point as that just creates
pointless arguments, as was so painfully learned in the past.

-Gregor


redTed wrote:
>
>
> I'm sorry you mistook what I wrote. I said "I" had contributed nothing to
> the community apart from buying loads of sim racers.
>
> And this is exactly what you said, a newsgroup. Not developers corner. Not a
> place where the favoured few hang out and "wink" knowingly at each other.
> I have no pretensions to be part of anything like that. All I care about are
> the games and info relating to those games. If "Racing Legends" is truly
> still a going concern, which I very much doubt, then I'll take an interest
> in that. Unless it's, as proposed years ago, exorbitantly expensive.
>
>

> Ah, OK, my bad indeed. <looks around if anyone saw the blunder;
> unfortunately most everyone did>
>
> About r.a.s.; it never was a developer's corner, though it was also a very
> much lively place for that sort of discussion. It was a place where
> sensible discussion about inner and outer workings of car simulators took
> place, with very little noise despite the number of posts being much more
> than these days. I can see you don't really care much about this social
> aspect. Allow me to say that I believe you may be missing half the fun of
> this hobby.

You may well be right about the last point . The thing is some of us (me)
can't get our heads around dampers/rebound settings etc. Now I'm sure they
are very interesting to those who make sim racing more than just a pastime.
Unfortunately, I have other PC/work related interests that take up more of
my time. So unless you can already understand the mathematics involved in
the design of a true sim racing physics engine, then that part of the
package will forever be a mystery. I'll just have to content myself with
playing the game with a modicum of skill and, usually, an equal amount of
frustration.

RedTed, first of all, Racing Legends was not started until 2002.
Second, it is now 2005. Just how long do you think it should take for
two or three guys, versus fourty or fifty, to write a simulator like
that?

Clever pot shot. So after a full day's work I spend an hour amusing
myself writing a analogical children's story to try to put the story
into perspective, and your response is that if I have anything to do
with their project you can see why it would take so long? Your logic
amazes me. The story still went right over your head, as well as
Remco's, and you didn't quite get or comment on the "hot air" part :-)

Oh well, I had a fun, relaxing hour there in my sillyness, even if it
was just too difficult for you to draw links between the real world and
the story :-) You obviously know more about the situation than anyone
else does, even those of us that have worked closely with Tony for
quite a long time?

Larry,

Releasing an interim product means essentially creating a new one. It
takes considerable time to "stop where you are" and make a releasable
interim project. It would only delay the final thing. No point in
messing around with that sort of thing. It's only been three years
since the start of RL. It takes a lot longer than that for a team of
two or three guys to produce a game with the quality and content of
other sims on the market. Just scroll through the credits of your
other sims and see how many people were involved. And yet in those
cases it still usually takes a year or two, and that's usually AFTER
they've released a previous title and have a ready made engine on their
hands.

Chris and Tony are right on track in my eyes. It's astonishing how
many players in the community insist they know more about sim
development than the developers themselves do! :-D

> wrote
> RedTed, first of all, Racing Legends was not started until 2002.
> Second, it is now 2005. Just how long do you think it should take for
> two or three guys, versus fourty or fifty, to write a simulator like
> that?


Look we've been through this a dozen times here on r.a.s.

Btw, look at all the old farts here in this thread. <waves>


There are several sims that were made with a very minimal staff, and were
executed in a smaller time frame. LiveForSpeed, Racer, etc... But when you
waste your time modeling hyper-accurate version of a friggin truck loader,
of course it will take a decade.

Everybody here knew that they didn't go in the correct directions. There
was a massive amount of stuff before you even think about doing the things
the West Bros. did. Sure one of them was very good in 3d modeling and you
know, he had nothing else to do. Well that just means they weren't
organised correctly.





--
-- François Ménard <ymenard>
-- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez
Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard wrote:
>
> Btw, look at all the old farts here in this thread. <waves>

I believe I'm coming up on my 10 year anniversary this fall, if I had
taken a part time job instead I could have bought my 36ft Grand Banks by
now, oh well


Beers and cheers
(uncle) Goy

"When two or more people are gathered together in my name,
they shall perform the Parrot Sketch..."

--Our Lord John Cleese--

> RedTed, first of all, Racing Legends was not started until 2002.
> Second, it is now 2005. Just how long do you think it should take for
> two or three guys, versus fourty or fifty, to write a simulator like
> that?
>
> Clever pot shot. So after a full day's work I spend an hour amusing
> myself writing a analogical children's story to try to put the story
> into perspective, and your response is that if I have anything to do
> with their project you can see why it would take so long? Your logic
> amazes me. The story still went right over your head, as well as
> Remco's, and you didn't quite get or comment on the "hot air" part :-)
>
> Oh well, I had a fun, relaxing hour there in my sillyness, even if it
> was just too difficult for you to draw links between the real world and
> the story :-) You obviously know more about the situation than anyone
> else does, even those of us that have worked closely with Tony for
> quite a long time?

I've got to be honest, I never read your elaborate tale. It was far too
boring after the first 5 words.
Sorry.
I think if you ever do change professions , it would be wise to put some
kind of health warning on the covers of your books.
Something along the lines of...*DANGER:COMA INDUCING CLAPTRAP AHEAD*

On 24 Aug 2005 10:41:11 -0700,
wrote:
>The story still went right over your head, as well as
>Remco's,

Since I'm always willing to learn, I wouldn't mind an explanation....
:-)

Cheers!

Remco