Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays???

PTRAVEL > writes:

> I don't find expressions of antisemitism funny.


If they're done right, they can be hilarious.

Seriously, you clearly have a persecution complex.
Christianity and Judaism don't exist in a zero-sum
relationship.



Geoff

--
"Kwanzaa bells, dashikis sell, Whitey has to pay;
Burning, shooting, oh what fun, On this made-up holiday!
-- Ann Coulter

"Geoff Miller" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> PTRAVEL > writes:
>
>> I don't find expressions of antisemitism funny.
>
>
> If they're done right, they can be hilarious.
>
> Seriously, you clearly have a persecution complex.

Did you read Iconoclast's "joke"? Do you find it funny?


> Christianity and Judaism don't exist in a zero-sum
> relationship.
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
> --
> "Kwanzaa bells, dashikis sell, Whitey has to pay;
> Burning, shooting, oh what fun, On this made-up holiday!
> -- Ann Coulter
>

PTRAVEL > asks:

> Did you read Iconoclast's "joke"? Do you find it funny?


You mean what he said about how Jews should celebrate Jesus
as a great Jewish philosopher? I just Googled his contrib-
utions to this thread, and that was the only single thing I
saw from him that seemed to get your bowels into an uproar.

I didn't perceive that Icono Clast meant that as a joke, but
if that's what got your back up, I think he was right: you're
trying way too hard to be offended.

And if that isn't what you're referring to, then what was it?



Geoff

--
"Kwanzaa bells, dashikis sell, Whitey has to pay;
Burning, shooting, oh what fun, On this made-up holiday!
-- Ann Coulter

"Geoff Miller" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> PTRAVEL > asks:
>
>> Did you read Iconoclast's "joke"? Do you find it funny?
>
>
> You mean what he said about how Jews should celebrate Jesus
> as a great Jewish philosopher?

No. The one about Jews celebrating Christmas in their Rolls Royce.

> I just Googled his contrib-
> utions to this thread, and that was the only single thing I
> saw from him that seemed to get your bowels into an uproar.

That did, too, yes.

>
> I didn't perceive that Icono Clast meant that as a joke, but
> if that's what got your back up, I think he was right: you're
> trying way too hard to be offended.

Read through the thread and find the "joke" about how people of different
religions celebrate Christmas.

>
> And if that isn't what you're referring to, then what was it?
>
>
>
> Geoff
>
> --
> "Kwanzaa bells, dashikis sell, Whitey has to pay;
> Burning, shooting, oh what fun, On this made-up holiday!
> -- Ann Coulter
>

PTRAVEL > writes:

[Did I read Icono Clasts's joke?]

: You mean what he said about how Jews should celebrate Jesus
: as a great Jewish philosopher?

> No. The one about Jews celebrating Christmas in their Rolls
> Royce.

Oh, that. Yeah, I did. I found it moderately smirk-worthy.
Like most good humor, it contains a kernel of truth: Jews,
like Chinese ("the Jews of the Orient"), *are* more heavily
involved in retail commerce than are people in general. Do
you take issue with that?

And it certainly stands to reason that like any other business-
people, they'd be delighted about anything that raised their
profits -- especially something that raised their profits
reliably every year, just like clockwork. Would you argue with
that, either?

If your answer was "no" to both of the above, then what exactly
is the problem?

Okay, so most Jews *don't* literally drive Rollers. So what?
Think of that as poetic license coupled with healthy hyperbole.


> Read through the thread and find the "joke" about how people
> of different religions celebrate Christmas.

To paraphrase Richard Feynman (who, you may recall, was Jewish),
what do *you* care what other people find amusing?

Dude, your skin is way too thin. The problem with being so easily
offended is that people will notice that about you and go out of
their way to get a rise out of you, like poking a vicious dog
through the slats of a fence with a stick. And in the words of
Dean Wormer, that's no way to go through life, son.



Geoff

--
"You know, 'elitist' has an actual meaning. Using it as a generic
pejorative only betrays your political leanings _and_ makes you
look like a moron, to boot." -- John S. Novak

"Geoff Miller" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> PTRAVEL > writes:
>
> [Did I read Icono Clasts's joke?]
>
> : You mean what he said about how Jews should celebrate Jesus
> : as a great Jewish philosopher?
>
>> No. The one about Jews celebrating Christmas in their Rolls
>> Royce.
>
> Oh, that. Yeah, I did. I found it moderately smirk-worthy.
> Like most good humor, it contains a kernel of truth: Jews,
> like Chinese ("the Jews of the Orient"), *are* more heavily
> involved in retail commerce than are people in general. Do
> you take issue with that?

Yeah, as a matter of fact. On what do you base that? No one in my family
is involved in retail commerce, though we have many lawyers, doctors and
engineers in the family. My wife is Chinese and none of her family are
involved in retail commerce.


>
> And it certainly stands to reason that like any other business-
> people, they'd be delighted about anything that raised their
> profits -- especially something that raised their profits
> reliably every year, just like clockwork. Would you argue with
> that, either?

The point of the "joke," such as it is, is (1) Jews are wealthy and, (2)
exploit Gentiles. Come on, you don't see that?


>
> If your answer was "no" to both of the above, then what exactly
> is the problem?
>
> Okay, so most Jews *don't* literally drive Rollers. So what?
> Think of that as poetic license coupled with healthy hyperbole.
>
>
>> Read through the thread and find the "joke" about how people
>> of different religions celebrate Christmas.
>
> To paraphrase Richard Feynman (who, you may recall, was Jewish),
> what do *you* care what other people find amusing?

I don't know who Richard Feynman is. I do find public statements of
antisemitism, even though relatively low key, disquieting.

>
> Dude, your skin is way too thin.

Dude, you either don't live in the U.S. or you're very, very young (which
your use of "dude" suggests). Institutionalized antisemitism existed in the
U.S. within _my_ living memory, and I'm not all that old. The religious
right seems bent on endowing their beliefs with the force of law, and engage
in all sorts of slimey tactics to achieve their goal. One of their most
recent tactics is the fictious and entirely religious-right-invented "War on
Christmas," of which this thread is a part.

> The problem with being so easily
> offended is that people will notice that about you and go out of
> their way to get a rise out of you, like poking a vicious dog
> through the slats of a fence with a stick. And in the words of
> Dean Wormer, that's no way to go through life, son.

No one has tried to get a rise out of me or, at least, no one has succeeded.
However, I will continue to call a spade a spade.

>
>
>
> Geoff
>
> --
> "You know, 'elitist' has an actual meaning. Using it as a generic
> pejorative only betrays your political leanings _and_ makes you
> look like a moron, to boot." -- John S. Novak
>

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:52:35 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> wrote:

[...]

>I don't know who Richard Feynman is.

Apparently your education is lacking.

>I do find public statements of
>antisemitism, even though relatively low key, disquieting.

[...]

>However, I will continue to call a spade a spade.

Hey, watch it there!

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

"Hatunen" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 08:52:35 -0800, "PTRAVEL"
> > wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>I don't know who Richard Feynman is.
>
> Apparently your education is lacking.

Yeah, right.

>
>>I do find public statements of
>>antisemitism, even though relatively low key, disquieting.
>
> [...]
>
>>However, I will continue to call a spade a spade.
>
> Hey, watch it there!

I hope there is a smiley missing.


>
> ************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
> * Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
> * My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

PTRAVEL > writes:

[Had I read Icono Clast's joke?]

: Oh, that. Yeah, I did. I found it moderately smirk-worthy.
: Like most good humor, it contains a kernel of truth: Jews,
: like Chinese ("the Jews of the Orient"), *are* more heavily
: involved in retail commerce than are people in general. Do
: you take issue with that?

> Yeah, as a matter of fact. On what do you base that? No one
> in my family is involved in retail commerce, though we have
> many lawyers, doctors and engineers in the family. My wife
> is Chinese and none of her family are involved in retail
> commerce.

It's an established fact. Both Jews and Chinese have functioned
as what's known as "middleman minorities": people whose work
takes place somewhere between producers and consumers, whether
in retail trade or money-lending -- the Jews in Europe, Africa
and America, and the Chinese in America and the Middle East (and
incidentally, the Lebanese in Africa and South America).

Here, check this out; it's quite an interesting read:

http://www.hooverdigest.org/053/sowell.html

This essay is one of several that appears in a book I'm currently
reading, _Black Rednecks And White Liberals_ by Thomas Sowell.

Your family and your wife's family may not have any members who
are involved in retail commerce, but then I didn't say that
*every single* Jewish or Chinese family did, did I? Or even
*most* Jewish and Chinese families. No, I did not. What I
said was that those ethnicities are more heavily involved in
retail commerce than are people in general. My original words
are quoted above, and they stand.


: And it certainly stands to reason that like any other business-
: people, they'd be delighted about anything that raised their
: profits -- especially something that raised their profits
: reliably every year, just like clockwork. Would you argue with
: that, either?

> The point of the "joke," such as it is, is (1) Jews are wealthy
> and, (2) exploit Gentiles. Come on, you don't see that?

No, I don't. Since when does becoming prosperous by selling other
people things they want to buy amount to exploitation?


: To paraphrase Richard Feynman (who, you may recall, was Jewish),
: what do *you* care what other people find amusing?

> I don't know who Richard Feynman is. I do find public statements of
> antisemitism, even though relatively low key, disquieting.

Richard Feynman was a physicist who worked on the Manhattan Project.
He also discovered the cause of the Challenger disaster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

I wouldn't say that your education is "sorely lacking" because you've
never heard of Feynman, but I will say that you'd be enriched by
learning more about him. I recommend this book, _Surely You're
Joking, Mr. Feynman (Adventures Of A Curious Character)_ as an
introduction to the man:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/039...lance&n=283155

Amazon.com has it used, in paperback, from $4.32. (Maybe you can
christian them down a bit.)


: Dude, your skin is way too thin.

> Dude, you either don't live in the U.S. or you're very, very young
> (which your use of "dude" suggests).

You're wrong on both counts. I live in the San Jose, California, area,
and have for most of my life. As for my age, let's just say that I'm
old enough to know right from wrong and young enough not to care.


> Institutionalized antisemitism existed in the U.S. within _my_ living
> memory, and I'm not all that old. The religious right seems bent on
> endowing their beliefs with the force of law, and engage in all sorts
> of slimey tactics to achieve their goal. One of their most recent
> tactics is the fictious and entirely religious-right-invented "War on
> Christmas," of which this thread is a part.

The fact that institutionalized antisemitism existed in the U.S. within
your living memory means neither that it exists to a significant degree
now, or even that it existed to the extent that you believe it did within
your living memory.

Since you come across as one of those people who goes out of his way to
take offense, it doesn't require much of a leap to suspect that you over-
estimate the extent of antisemitism in the same way that similarly thin-
skinned people tend to see racism or sexism lurking underneath every rock
and hiding behind every tree.

Given that the Religious Right believes in upholding what's known as the
Judeo-Christian Tradition -- you might check out Dennis Prager's series
of columns on this:

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/cont...r/archive/2005

-- I find it hard to believe that there's significant antisemitism among
that crowd. Actually, I believe there's a lot more of it on the Left,
as the venomous hatred of Israel and the belief that the invasion of
Iraq was waged at Israel's behest and for Israel's benefit that are
common among American and European liberals demonstrate. If you're
going to dedicate your life to fighting antisemitism, I humbly suggest
that you begin by looking for it in the proper place.

As for the war on Christmas, that's no invention; it's a fact. Why else
can office and school Christmas parties not be called Christmas parties?
Why else would people say "Happy holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas?"
Why else are public Christmas trees being referred to as "holiday trees?"
Or be banned on public property, as in Eugene, Oregon? Why else would
schools disallow references to Christianity but allow, even encourage,
references to Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and Ramadan?

Now, before you succumb to Usenet gamesmanship and demand citations for
all this, you should know that it's been in the media for ages...and
that it's getting worse. It's a component of the hostility from the
Left to all things even vaguely Christian. Examples are contained
herein:

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu.../13/13930.html

http://www.townhall.com/opinion/colu...08/178211.html

The situation is real enough that somebody even wrote a book about it,
titled _The War On Christmas_:

http://www.thbookservice.com/product...?prod_cd=c6824


> No one has tried to get a rise out of me or, at least, no one has
> succeeded. However, I will continue to call a spade a spade.

If no one had gotten a rise out of you, you wouldn't have felt the need
to participate in this thread in the first place. Q.E.D.




Geoff

--
"Kentucky Freud Chicken ('It's mother****in' good!')"
-- Anatoly Matlis