Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:22:36 -0500:

> If he won't listen to me, mabee he'll listen to someone else.
> He asks for advice - then won't take it.
> That sounds a bit like an idiot to me - sorry but I have to call a
> spade a spade.

I think you totally missed the point.
The tire is already ruined because I drove on it.
Nothing I do to it will ruin it any more.

However, I can experiment on this tire, so that I can see how the
entire patch process works.

Remember what this group is all about.
It's not a ladies' knitting group you know.

So, we're not afraid to wind our own garage door springs.
We're not afraid to replace our own struts.
And, we're not afraid to patch our tires correctly.

You seem to know a lot, which means that you know the average fool
is too stupid to patch their tires correctly.

But, the rest of us aren't average fools! (pun intended).

At this point, I'm working on *what* exactly the carbide bit does.
This bit looks nothing like the spiral reamer that comes with the
el cheapo outside plug kits.

The carbide bit, I think, is supposed to smooth the sharp edges
of the cut belts.

Do you concur?
Or is there a *different* reason for the carbide bit?

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:09:54 -0500:

> It aint MEK.,

Darn. Someone said it was MEK.

That was good to hear because MEK is easy to come by.
But, if it's not MEK, then we have to start anew to figure out what
it is that we can find in a common hardware store.

> and yes, low speed is required because if you burn the
> rubber the tire is FUBAR.

Makes sense not to want to melt the rubber.
How does 500 RPM sound for speed?

> Best thing for "grinding" the liner is a
> prep disk on a low speed die grinder or air drill..

I have seen those half-round grinding disks which seem like a nice
thing to have in my toolbox for cleaning the inside of the tire.

> Use a PROPER PREBUFF cleaner, or a pure hydrocarbon solvent like napyha ,
> white gas, or even TRicor. (all components of the major tire repair
> companies' pre-buff cleaners).

Googling to see the box store equivalents, it seems that Naptha isn't
sold at Home Depot, but it is sold at Lowes:

LOWES: Crown 1-Gallon Slow to Dissolve Naphtha
Item #: 206531 | Model #: CR.VM.M.41
http://www.lowes.com/pd_206531-34228...ductId=3024053

Are you sure the prebuff solvent is naptha, and not MEK?

> In a pinch, use tire patch glue ans scrape it off with a razor blade.

Interesting idea!

This makes sense, especially since you already have the glue on hand,
and, as noted by someone, the remainder of the glue will likely dry
well before you ever get to use it again, so, you may as well use
it up.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:19:10 -0500, Tekkie® >
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher posted for all of us...
>
>
>> I think a lot of these "proper ways" are fine but are often simply
>> driven by lawsuits. Some gas station repaired a flat tire, the guy
>> then has an accident and blames the repair and gets paid "experts" to
>> testify it was all because of that improperly done repair. No
>> evidence that a "proper repair" would have changed anything of course.
>> The same reason some tire places insist the new tires HAVE to go on
>> the rear of the car leaving you with half worn out front tires on your
>> FWD car at the start of snow season.
>>
>
>So I guess the research the tire co's means nothing to you.


Depends on the research. They have a financial interest in anything
that results in them selling more tires in total or more tires then
the competition. Competing is hard, getting the gvt to mandate
something stupid so you can make more money just takes a few lobbyists
and greasing some palms.

Tekkie® wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:19:10 -0500:

> So I guess the research the tire co's means nothing to you.

I know this was directed at someone else, but, let's remind ourselves
this isn't the ladies' knitting group.

We're here to learn how to repair things, and, in this case, what
we want to learn is the proper way for a homeowner to repair a
car tire that has a puncture wound.

So far, we have learned a *lot* (at least "I" have), as I have
read the wrong way and the right way to repair the tires.

The only thing I don't have are the 5 tools and the 3 fluids, so,
my quest right now is simply to find homeowner-style alternatives.

One could rightly say just buy the right tools & fluids, but,
you have to realize that we're only going to repair one tire
every few years, so, we really need to be smarter than that.

Sure, it's *easy* to buy exactly the professional tools, but, if
we're smart, we can buy the fluids and tools and be able to use
them for other things.

For example, of the three fluids, we seem to know at this point:
1. Pre-buff solvent <= seems to either be Naptha or MEK
2. Vulcanizing cement <= easy to come by almost anywhere
3. Inner liner sealer <= this we don't know what it's made of yet

Of the 5 tools, we can probably make use of existing tools:
a. Carbide reamer
b. Pre-buff half-moon scraper
c. Half-round buffing wheel
d. Stitcher wheel

If you know of alternative sources in the home box office for
any of these tools and fluids, that's the stage I'm currently
at now.

Whatever you impart will benefit all of us, because I would expect
anyone at home who can mount and dismount and balance a tire to
be able to also patch the repair from the inside.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:24:36 -0500:

> Why would you? It's only YOUR LIFE riding on that tire, and the lives
> of everybody you may hit if the tire blows on the road. DO NOT screw
> around with tire , brake, or steering repairs. A criminal negligence
> charge will stay with you for a lifetime even if you survive.

This isn't the ladies' knitting group.
Nothing has been patched yet.
This is a *discussion*.

What we're seeking is a second source for the fluids used in tire
repair. If you think that these fluids are *super special*, then
you have a different opinion than I do.

I *assume* (yes, I know) that these three fluids are commonly available.
I'm just trying to find out *what* they are.

You would probably say "just buy the professional stuff" and that *might*
actually be the best answer. But, oftentimes the best answer, for a
homeowner, is to use the same fluid, but packaged for the homeowner.

For example, if the pre-buff fluid is either MEK or Naptha (as has
been opined so far), both are easily available at Lowes.

The sealer is the trickier fluid to figure out what it is, since
that is the fluid that protects the inner seal.

> That "most critical" fluid has only become anything resembling common
> in the last decade or so. It was virtually unheard of when I was
> working as a mechanic and fixing tires - and I'd venture to guess
> better than 90% of tire repair shops still don't use it - barticularly
> with a "mushroom" patch.

This is interesting. You have far more experience than I do, so I
greatly appreciate your advice. Today I stopped off at Costco to
see what they use, and they showed me a can of their stuff, which
they use as part of the final repair. But I don't know what other
shops use.

The trick now is to figure out *what* that tar-like substance is
made up of, to see if we can find a second source in the home box
stores.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 16:26:28 -0500:

> And that is what the "scraping" is for - to expose raw clean surface
> for gluing..
>
> The old trick of applying glue, lighting it with a match, then
> scraping off the remains before applying more glue and the patch did
> the same thing.

This is an interesting trick.

Seems to me, the goal of the pre-buff solvent is to dissolve a thin
skin of the inner liner, so that we're down to a different layer of
rubber for the patch to adhere to.

What I like about this trick is that it negates the need for the
pre-buff solution, although if the pre-buff solution is Naptha or MEK,
it's easy to come by in the home box stores.

So, the real trick will be to find a substitute for the final inner
liner sealer.

On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:19:10 -0500, Tekkie® >
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher posted for all of us...
>
>
>> I think a lot of these "proper ways" are fine but are often simply
>> driven by lawsuits. Some gas station repaired a flat tire, the guy
>> then has an accident and blames the repair and gets paid "experts" to
>> testify it was all because of that improperly done repair. No
>> evidence that a "proper repair" would have changed anything of course.
>> The same reason some tire places insist the new tires HAVE to go on
>> the rear of the car leaving you with half worn out front tires on your
>> FWD car at the start of snow season.
>>
>
>So I guess the research the tire co's means nothing to you.
Ashton is about the only guy cheaper and less intelligent than
DannyBoy on this group. I plonked him a long time ago so only see his
crap when someone answers him.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:02:14 -0500:

> I would use what the patch company recommends. Tech's "Rub=O-Matic"
> rubber cleaner has no MEK in it. it is basically a light naptha (pure
> petroleum product)

Naptha is easy to come by, so, that would be good news.

> Their flamable pre-buff is almost pure N-Heptane.
> Their non flamable pre-buff is Triclorethelene

Heptane should also be easy to come by, so that would be good news.

> The "glue" is also specific to the patch product being used. -I would
> not mix one company's glue with another companies specialized patch
> products.

Interestingly, one of the videos I posted said to not coat the stem
of the patchplug with the glue. The other one didn't mention whether
or not the stem (near the head of the patchplug) should be coated.

Do you lean toward putting the cement on the stem of the patchplug?

AMuzi wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:17:26 -0600:

> Don't overthink this.
> Find a Tech service truck or similar vendor who does this
> all day long and get your materials and advice from an expert.

This isn't the ladies' knitting group.
This is a repair and tech group.

If we don't know the exact chemicals used in the three fluids,
then we have no business being *on* this newsgroup.

Likewise, if we don't know the purpose of the five tools used
in a decent patch repair, then we can't call ourselves all that
knowledgeable.

None of us are born with this knowledge, but, those of you with
experience can help impart your knowledge on the rest of us.

clare wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 17:25:31 -0500:

> Mineral spirits and MEK are totally different materials.
> Mineral spirits is closer to the right product but can have all kinds
> of fraction in it that could inhibit proper vilcanization.. White gas
> (coleman camp gas) is about as close to the "real thing" as he is
> going to find at a big box store like Home Despot. - much better to
> just get the right stuff

I think naptha is fine.

Lowes has it by the gallon.

What I'm trying to source now is that final goopy tar sealant.

Any ideas what it's made up of?