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Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S - traction AA vs traction A



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 7th 05, 07:24 PM
y_p_w
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Default Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S - traction AA vs traction A

As I was researching the set of tires I bought for my 2004
Subaru Impreza WRX. There were Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S in
P205/55-ZR16 size, made in Germany with a marking of 02/04.

My tires were marked with a UTQG traction rating of A. I
noticed that the sidewall picture in the dealer pamhplet showed
a rating of AA. TireRack (where I didn't get my tires) indicates
that most of the sizes of this model come in both AA and A
traction rated versions, including my size.

I recall someone ("J.") posted in r.a.m.h last year that the
difference in the AA were in where they were made.

--quote--

"Be aware that U.S. Pirelli cannot explain whether this tire
has the advertised UTOG traction rating of 'AA' or just 'A'.
Tirerack, NHTSA and U.S. Pirelli claim the superior AA rating,
but the sidewalls of all four tires say A. Pirelli says this
tire used to be made in the US and the new compound did test
at AA. However, production was shipped to Germany (my tires
are dated 4th week of 2004 and marked 'Germany') and U.S.
Pirelli is still trying to get an answer from the factory as
to what compound and what rating the tires really have."

--end of quote--

I sent a message to Pirelli's US division, and got a rather
useless answer that "AA provides better traction than A". I
wasn't satisfied, and called their 800 number -(800) PIRELLI.
When I asked the question, the operator put me on hold, went
for someone more knowledgeable, and answered back that the
rubber compound used in the German tires is different, but
shouldn't result in poorer performance.

It might simply have been a snafu in how they marked the tires
or the sequence of tests run. I'm guessing that they probably
would test out to the AA traction rating standard. If they're
working well, I'm not going to worry too much about whether they
have an extra A.

Regardless, the tires seem to work pretty well compared to the
Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires that came stock. They seem to
corner much better in the dry and wet, although they are a bit
squishy. I haven't checked out their hydroplane resistance
(only light rain so far) yet, but the huge water channels look
like they should help. They're a bit noisy now, but I've got
less than 200 miles on them; they might quiet down as they
wear in (or not).

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  #2  
Old February 7th 05, 10:43 PM
disallow
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Default

I tried emailing Pirelli here in Canada regarding
an issue I had with treadwear on some P3000s. I
got not response. Also, I found out that most
stores in my city (Winnipeg), no longer stock
pirelli tires, and I would have to special order
them.

The verdict? I loved my P3000s, but man they
don't really have a clue when it comes to sales.
I was forced to buy another brand.

t

  #3  
Old February 8th 05, 02:21 AM
y_p_w
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Default

disallow wrote:
> I tried emailing Pirelli here in Canada regarding
> an issue I had with treadwear on some P3000s. I
> got not response. Also, I found out that most
> stores in my city (Winnipeg), no longer stock
> pirelli tires, and I would have to special order
> them.


Well - I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, and getting tires
is almost never a problem. Pretty much all independents
(and some chains) go to the same warehouses. Even the local
Firestone shop said they could have ordered Pirellis.

As for my email response from Pirelli US (Rome, Georgia?), I
sent my inquiry on a Sunday afternoon, and the response
(albeit not very helpful) was in this morning (Mon).

> The verdict? I loved my P3000s, but man they
> don't really have a clue when it comes to sales.
> I was forced to buy another brand.


So far the P Zero Nero M+S seem to be fine. Like I said -
a little squishy but grip is much improved over OEM.

  #4  
Old February 9th 05, 08:59 PM
J.
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Posts: n/a
Default

Yup, you quoted me correctly.

My P Zero Nero M+S 205/50-ZR16's came with the sidewall traction marked 'A'
while the sticky tag on the tires indicated 'AA'. The last communication I
had with Pirelli was that they were going to find out from the German
factory if they just "forgot" to change the sidewall stamping plate from A
to AA or if they really do use a different compound. The Pirelli contact
was almost always "away from his desk" and calls were constantly being
missed, so I gave up. Tirerack said they would refund my money and pay for
shipping back but the hassle of finding suitable replacements (not easy at
that size) and unmounting them wasn't worth it.

So far, I haven't had to do any panic stops (or even activate ABS) in the
wet. No complaints about wet stopping, so the traction rating issue of A or
AA is now moot for me.

I've got 9,000 miles on the tires and while the tread depth is still
excellent, they have gotten noisier. I don't recall them being noisy in the
first couple hundred of miles though. As long as they don't get anywhere
near as noisy as the Dunlop D60A2's on a previous 'lude, I'll be happy. My
Prelude OEM RE92's did stay quiet for 40,000+ miles and lasted even longer
despite having a fairly low wear rating.

J.


"y_p_w" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> As I was researching the set of tires I bought for my 2004
> Subaru Impreza WRX. There were Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S in
> P205/55-ZR16 size, made in Germany with a marking of 02/04.
>
> My tires were marked with a UTQG traction rating of A. I
> noticed that the sidewall picture in the dealer pamhplet showed
> a rating of AA. TireRack (where I didn't get my tires) indicates
> that most of the sizes of this model come in both AA and A
> traction rated versions, including my size.
>
> I recall someone ("J.") posted in r.a.m.h last year that the
> difference in the AA were in where they were made.
>
> --quote--
>
> "Be aware that U.S. Pirelli cannot explain whether this tire
> has the advertised UTOG traction rating of 'AA' or just 'A'.
> Tirerack, NHTSA and U.S. Pirelli claim the superior AA rating,
> but the sidewalls of all four tires say A. Pirelli says this
> tire used to be made in the US and the new compound did test
> at AA. However, production was shipped to Germany (my tires
> are dated 4th week of 2004 and marked 'Germany') and U.S.
> Pirelli is still trying to get an answer from the factory as
> to what compound and what rating the tires really have."
>
> --end of quote--
>
> I sent a message to Pirelli's US division, and got a rather
> useless answer that "AA provides better traction than A". I
> wasn't satisfied, and called their 800 number -(800) PIRELLI.
> When I asked the question, the operator put me on hold, went
> for someone more knowledgeable, and answered back that the
> rubber compound used in the German tires is different, but
> shouldn't result in poorer performance.
>
> It might simply have been a snafu in how they marked the tires
> or the sequence of tests run. I'm guessing that they probably
> would test out to the AA traction rating standard. If they're
> working well, I'm not going to worry too much about whether they
> have an extra A.
>
> Regardless, the tires seem to work pretty well compared to the
> Bridgestone Potenza RE92 tires that came stock. They seem to
> corner much better in the dry and wet, although they are a bit
> squishy. I haven't checked out their hydroplane resistance
> (only light rain so far) yet, but the huge water channels look
> like they should help. They're a bit noisy now, but I've got
> less than 200 miles on them; they might quiet down as they
> wear in (or not).
>


  #5  
Old February 9th 05, 09:47 PM
y_p_w
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

J. wrote:
> Yup, you quoted me correctly.


Direct cut and past from the Google Groups archive.

> My P Zero Nero M+S 205/50-ZR16's came with the sidewall traction
> marked 'A' while the sticky tag on the tires indicated 'AA'. The
> last communication I had with Pirelli was that they were going to
> find out from the German factory if they just "forgot" to change
> the sidewall stamping plate from A to AA or if they really do use
> a different compound. The Pirelli contact was almost always "away
> from his desk" and calls were constantly being missed, so I gave up.
> Tirerack said they would refund my money and pay for shipping back
> but the hassle of finding suitable replacements (not easy at that
> size) and unmounting them wasn't worth it.


Well - I can't really say what it is, except that the customer service
operator did verify that there's a difference in rubber compound. I
bought it at a local shop, so they didn't give me an option as to
which source I wanted. Apparently TireRack does list two different
tires (same price) in most sizes, although you have to look at the
spec list first to figure which one is "AA" vs "A". If there are two
in the same size, it's usually AA second.

<http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Pirelli&model=PZero+Nero+M%26S>

I didn't see any label on the tread. I don't know if it just didn't
come with one or it was taken off before delivery. I saw the tires
before they were installed - the delivery truck had just deposited
them in front.

> So far, I haven't had to do any panic stops (or even activate ABS)
> in the wet. No complaints about wet stopping, so the traction
> rating issue of A or AA is now moot for me.


It may very well test out to a AA traction rating, even with different
rubber. Worrying too much about it is like a friend who was convinced
he had to get Z-rated tires for his econobox car.

> I've got 9,000 miles on the tires and while the tread depth is still
> excellent, they have gotten noisier. I don't recall them being noisy
> in the first couple hundred of miles though. As long as they don't
> 0get anywhere near as noisy as the Dunlop D60A2's on a previous
> 'lude, I'll be happy. My Prelude OEM RE92's did stay quiet for
> 40,000+ miles and lasted even longer despite having a fairly low
> wear rating.


Apparently the Potenza RE92 tires are warranted for 40K miles. I still
had plenty of tread left after almost 11K miles. Regardless of all
that, they sucked as a "performance tire", and I was glad to be rid
of them.

My only problem with the Pirellis is that they tramline on grooved
roads. There aren't many where I live, but I had a little road trip
yesterday and went over several grooved sections of freeway. It felt
a little bit jittery but never dangerous. Basically there are three
straight edges around the circumference and they bite into the road
grooves. Then they tend to jump from groove to groove.

  #6  
Old February 13th 05, 10:43 PM
J.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

y_p_w wrote:
> Apparently TireRack does list two different
> tires (same price) in most sizes, although you have to look at the
> spec list first to figure which one is "AA" vs "A". If there are two
> in the same size, it's usually AA second.
>

<http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Pirelli&model=PZero+Nero+M%26S>

Thanks for pointing that out. Tirerack has revamped their spec page. IIRC,
back in June there were only 2 or 3 'A' traction tires and I don't recall
seeing ANY sizes dual listed with 'A' and 'AA'. They have since downgraded
my 205/50-16 size to 'A', so I give them credit for that.

>
> Apparently the Potenza RE92 tires are warranted for 40K miles. I still
> had plenty of tread left after almost 11K miles. Regardless of all
> that, they sucked as a "performance tire", and I was glad to be rid
> of them.
>


I don't recall my Prelude having a mileage warranty pamphlet on the stock
RE92's. They only had a treadwear of 160 and lasted well over 40Kmiles.
With the Pirelli's 400 rating, can I expect over 100,000 miles? (yeah,
sure - I've got land in FL for sale too!). As far as performance, they
weren't as bad as the stock Michelin XGT-Vs (another high / ultra high perf
all-season) on my earlier 'lude. But, comparing different cars and
different sizes really isn't fair.

  #7  
Old February 14th 05, 01:48 AM
y_p_w
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Posts: n/a
Default



J. wrote:

> y_p_w wrote:
>
>>Apparently TireRack does list two different
>>tires (same price) in most sizes, although you have to look at the
>>spec list first to figure which one is "AA" vs "A". If there are two
>>in the same size, it's usually AA second.
>>

>
> <http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Pirelli&model=PZero+Nero+M%26S>
>
> Thanks for pointing that out. Tirerack has revamped their spec page. IIRC,
> back in June there were only 2 or 3 'A' traction tires and I don't recall
> seeing ANY sizes dual listed with 'A' and 'AA'. They have since downgraded
> my 205/50-16 size to 'A', so I give them credit for that.


They don't make it easy to specify them though. I'd also take a wild
guess that which one ordered doesn't really matter, since they'll be
retrieved at the warehouse by make/model/size.

>>Apparently the Potenza RE92 tires are warranted for 40K miles. I still
>>had plenty of tread left after almost 11K miles. Regardless of all
>>that, they sucked as a "performance tire", and I was glad to be rid
>>of them.
>>

>
>
> I don't recall my Prelude having a mileage warranty pamphlet on the stock
> RE92's. They only had a treadwear of 160 and lasted well over 40Kmiles.
> With the Pirelli's 400 rating, can I expect over 100,000 miles? (yeah,
> sure - I've got land in FL for sale too!). As far as performance, they
> weren't as bad as the stock Michelin XGT-Vs (another high / ultra high perf
> all-season) on my earlier 'lude. But, comparing different cars and
> different sizes really isn't fair.


I hated the XGT-V4 on my '95 Integra. Pirelli P6000s were a definite
step up (stock 195/55-15 size). I even had a flat tire, but it didn't
sink. The stiff sidewalls kept the tire standing straight up with no
pressure. Then I went for Dunlop SP Sport 9000, which were nice
enough that I got replaced them. They were quiet and great in the
rain, although I suspect there better handling tires out there. All
tires I've tried lasted at least 30K miles.

Ratings suck. Ever feel suspicious that almost every tire size in a
model range has the same treadwear rating? The tires I've used had
treadwear ratings of 180/220/300, and they all lasted a while. The
RE92 is notorious for either wearing out quickly or lasting forever.

The Potenza RE92 has a 40,000 mile treadwear warranty only as a
replacement tire.

<http://www.mastercare-usa.com/tires/catalog/bridgestone-potenzare92.jsp>
  #8  
Old February 14th 05, 03:22 AM
y_p_w
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Posts: n/a
Default



y_p_w wrote:

> Then I went for Dunlop SP Sport 9000, which were nice
> enough that I got replaced them.


Did I really write that? Let's rewind. That would have said:

"Then I went for Dunlop SP Sport 9000, which were nice enough
that I got them again when it came time for replacement."
 




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