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Bogus VIN plate on '67 Firebird ragtop?



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 19th 04, 05:06 AM
PH
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bogus VIN plate on '67 Firebird ragtop?

The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe,
22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a
convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been
registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm
working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and
pull it apart.)

One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the
discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off
by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when
I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac
Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I
need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in
the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a
convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a
few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come
across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame
since I've had it.

It would feel better to have the car match the title.
Ads
  #2  
Old August 19th 04, 06:07 AM
Charles Bendig
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Posts: n/a
Default


"PH" > wrote in message
om...
> The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe,
> 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a
> convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
> titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been
> registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm
> working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and
> pull it apart.)
>
> One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the
> discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off
> by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when
> I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac
> Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I
> need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in
> the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a
> convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a
> few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come
> across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame
> since I've had it.
>
> It would feel better to have the car match the title.


I'm not sure about 1967 cars, I do know 1968 cars have at least a
partial VIN on the cowl plate.

If you have VIN Numbers that do not match the Title, or the car, you
have serious Issues.

If the Production numbers do not match between the title and VIN,
then you do not have to title to your vehicle. If they do not, your
best coarse of action is not a pleasant one. As it involves turning
all the info and the vehicle over to your state police.

If they do match. It is possible someone did a convertible
conversion on the car. Then someone else put the code on the title out
of error. This sort of thing has happened before. It can be a problem
to get straightened out.

Charles


  #3  
Old August 23rd 04, 05:26 PM
Charles Bendig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Several alternatives:
>
> 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
>
> 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
> one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
>
> Just some thoughts...
>


In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car in
Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what
they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the
generial public usually goes to the BMV.

Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some
officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime
area's, no matter whom you are.

Charles


  #4  
Old August 23rd 04, 06:52 PM
v8z
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Posts: n/a
Default

Sounds like a typo was made somewhere along the line with one of the title
transfers - if you look at the numpad on your keyboard you'll see that the 6
is right over the three. Its quite possible that the number was altered
during one of the title transfers.

Since you've owned the car for 25 years, and could get several people to
sign affidavits to that effect, you could go to a common pleas Judge and
submit all the info, including a signed statement by you.

I bought a car in PA that had been through two other owners, but not
transferred into their names/states, and never roadworthy during that time.
I had bill of sales from both PO's as well as the last "good" signed titled,
and an Ohio out-of-state inspection showing the VIN to match the old title.
I went the court route since it was my only option short of tracking down
the several previous owners and convincing them to go back and re-register
it in each of their respective states.....

The Judges office held the paperwork for about 5 weeks, during which time
they did a hot vehicle search several times. They called me to come pick up
the bench verdict directing the BMV to issue me a new Ohio title for the
vehicle.

Might be worth investigating in NJ.

"PH" > wrote in message
om...
> The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe,
> 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a
> convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
> titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been
> registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm
> working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and
> pull it apart.)
>
> One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the
> discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off
> by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when
> I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac
> Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I
> need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in
> the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a
> convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a
> few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come
> across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame
> since I've had it.
>
> It would feel better to have the car match the title.



  #5  
Old August 23rd 04, 09:50 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Apparently you have more of a problem than you realize.
If you hold a Pennsylvania motor vehicle title that was never
officially transferred by a notary or a PennDOT agent to a
subsequent owned, it still officially belongs to the previous
owner no matter how many times it changed hand subsequently. In
PA the owner MUST appear in front of a legal transfer agent, and
prove they are the owner listed on the title and sign the
'Seller' section in the presence of the official and obtain their
seal.. Short of possessing a 'Power of attorney' one can not
legally transfer a Pa title by ANY other manor. Whatever anyone
in a NG may tell you, a Pa title that is signed without the seal
is worthless.

I would suggest you contact PennDOT to determine the owner of
record. They can tell that by the title number. Once you
determine the legal owner of record you can contact them. The
owner of record will need to apply for a duplicate title, the
signed open title you have is no
longer transferable, that can then be properly exchange for a NJ
title. If you can show the actual sale took
place more than six month previously you will not need to pay the
NJ sales tax. You do not need insurance to effect the tittle
transfer but you will need insurance to obtain a license tag.



mike hunt



v8z wrote:
>
> Sounds like a typo was made somewhere along the line with one of the title
> transfers - if you look at the numpad on your keyboard you'll see that the 6
> is right over the three. Its quite possible that the number was altered
> during one of the title transfers.
>
> Since you've owned the car for 25 years, and could get several people to
> sign affidavits to that effect, you could go to a common pleas Judge and
> submit all the info, including a signed statement by you.
>
> I bought a car in PA that had been through two other owners, but not
> transferred into their names/states, and never roadworthy during that time.
> I had bill of sales from both PO's as well as the last "good" signed titled,
> and an Ohio out-of-state inspection showing the VIN to match the old title.
> I went the court route since it was my only option short of tracking down
> the several previous owners and convincing them to go back and re-register
> it in each of their respective states.....
>
> The Judges office held the paperwork for about 5 weeks, during which time
> they did a hot vehicle search several times. They called me to come pick up
> the bench verdict directing the BMV to issue me a new Ohio title for the
> vehicle.
>
> Might be worth investigating in NJ.
>
> "PH" > wrote in message
> om...
> > The VIN plate on my '67 Firebird convertible is for a coupe,
> > 22337xxxxxxxx, when it should be 22367xxxxxxx. The title is for a
> > convertible. I've had the car for about 25 years now and had it
> > titled and registered in 3 states before this one, but it hasn't been
> > registered yet in NJ since it's in need of an engine rebuild. (I'm
> > working on it. It's only taken me 15 years to pull the motor out and
> > pull it apart.)
> >
> > One cop in PA told me during a traffic stop not to worry about the
> > discrepancy because the VIN on the car and registration were only off
> > by one number. I'm wondering if NJ will have a problem with this when
> > I eventually register it, and if so, what I can do about it. Pontiac
> > Historical Services will send me a build sheet and all that, but I
> > need a good VIN or it's useless, right? Is there any other place in
> > the car that would have the VIN? The cowl body info plate is for a
> > convertible, but the VIN isn't on that. The car has been way apart a
> > few times (it was almost a shell when I bought it), and I didn't come
> > across any paperwork hidden anywhere. Body hasn't been off the frame
> > since I've had it.
> >
> > It would feel better to have the car match the title.

  #6  
Old August 24th 04, 12:16 AM
Bill Sohl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
> > Several alternatives:
> >
> > 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> > see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> > to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> > has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> > difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
> >
> > 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
> > one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> > VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
> >
> > Just some thoughts...

>
> In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car

in
> Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what
> they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the
> generial public usually goes to the BMV.
>
> Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some
> officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime
> area's, no matter whom you are.
> Charles


True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle
registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially
if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under
the hood).

Cheers,
Bill



  #7  
Old August 24th 04, 03:40 AM
Charles Bendig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
nk.net...
>
> "Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> > ink.net...
> > > Several alternatives:
> > >
> > > 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> > > see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> > > to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> > > has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> > > difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
> > >
> > > 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual title...no
> > > one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> > > VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
> > >
> > > Just some thoughts...

> >
> > In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a car

> in
> > Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have what
> > they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the
> > generial public usually goes to the BMV.
> >
> > Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation, some
> > officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high crime
> > area's, no matter whom you are.
> > Charles

>
> True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle
> registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially
> if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under
> the hood).
>
> Cheers,
> Bill
>


A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN
Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the
fenders, hood, & door.

Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
lamp out.

This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
rampant.
Charles


  #8  
Old August 24th 04, 06:33 PM
Bill Sohl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> >
> > "Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> > > ink.net...
> > > > Several alternatives:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> > > > see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> > > > to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know this
> > > > has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one digit/character
> > > > difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
> > > >
> > > > 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual

title...no
> > > > one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> > > > VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
> > > >
> > > > Just some thoughts...
> > >
> > > In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a

car
> > in
> > > Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have

what
> > > they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet the
> > > generial public usually goes to the BMV.
> > >
> > > Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation,

some
> > > officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high

crime
> > > area's, no matter whom you are.
> > > Charles

> >
> > True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle
> > registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on it...especially
> > if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under
> > the hood).
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Bill
> >

>
> A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN
> Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the
> fenders, hood, & door.


Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection.

> Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
> lamp out.


So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get
out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've
been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered
such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.

> This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
> rampant.


Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that
I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-)

Cheers,
Bill



  #9  
Old August 24th 04, 08:36 PM
G.R. Patterson III
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Posts: n/a
Default



Charles Bendig wrote:
>
> Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a marker
> lamp out.


Here in New Jersey, they run the plate number through the hotlist and check it
against the registration card that you carry.

George Patterson
If you want to know God's opinion of money, just look at the people
he gives it to.
  #10  
Old August 25th 04, 01:58 AM
Charles Bendig
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>
> "Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > >
> > > "Charles Bendig" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > > "Bill Sohl" > wrote in message
> > > > ink.net...
> > > > > Several alternatives:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. Just fill out the paperwork using the correct VIN number and
> > > > > see if they process it without doing a direct "stare and compare"
> > > > > to the VIN as shown on the title you'll be turning in. I know

this
> > > > > has been done before :-) :-) If they catch the one

digit/character
> > > > > difference, claim it was a typo and revert to #2 below.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. Fill out and title all the paperwork as per your actual

> title...no
> > > > > one looks at the actual VIN plate anyway...especially if the 1967
> > > > > VIN isn't in plain view on the windscreen post.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just some thoughts...
> > > >
> > > > In the state of Ohio, they are supposed to. If you title a

> car
> > > in
> > > > Ohio after it has been titled in a different state, you must have

> what
> > > > they call a "State Inspection" Which some car dealers can do, yet

the
> > > > generial public usually goes to the BMV.
> > > >
> > > > Also in Ohio, if you get pulled over for a traffic voilation,

> some
> > > > officers will run the VIN number on the car. Especially in high

> crime
> > > > area's, no matter whom you are.
> > > > Charles
> > >
> > > True, but they will run the VIN derived from the vehicle
> > > registration...not the stamped plate that has the VIN on

it...especially
> > > if the VIN isn't readily in plain sight (e.g. on a door jam or under
> > > the hood).
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Bill
> > >

> >
> > A State Inspection, in Ohio involves a visual inspection of the VIN
> > Plate. No matter where it is located. It also Includes looking at the
> > fenders, hood, & door.

>
> Good thing about vehicles registered as antique in NJ is NO inspection.
>


Even when coming in from another state?

> > Police Officers in the area I live in will check a VIN regardless of
> > location. Even if you get pulled over to let you know you have a

marker
> > lamp out.

>
> So if I get stopped driving my 1961 TR3, the cops would have me get
> out of my vehicle and open the hood so they can check the VIN #? I've
> been stopped in more than a handful of states and never encountered
> such a request from the police anytime or anywhere.
>


Depending on the area of the state of Ohio, Yes they will. Far less
likely in a small rural town, then in a larger city, with a high auto
theft rate.

It has happened to me. It has even happened to Bikers I know.

> > This is done to combat auto-theft. Which in the Dayton Ohio area is
> > rampant.

>
> Interesting...but certainly not the norm in most other states/locales that
> I am aware of. Your mileage may vary :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Bill


BTW: the one time I was pulled over in NJ (my brother lives out there),
The officer did run my VIN number. Maybe because I was from out of state,
driving an older van.
Charles


 




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