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A lap around "The Ring"



 
 
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  #281  
Old April 4th 05, 12:24 AM
Mitch_A
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Delusional is thinking you can actually add anything constructive. Your
only motivation is pure hatred and that hate has marginalized you out of
existence. Buh-Bye...


"MartyU" > wrote in message
...
> Mitch_A wrote:
>> Thats exactly what this argument is about. All you can see are the bad
>> things. Thats fine, all I can do is try and set you straight and hope
>> some small amount of reason enters into your thought process

>
> The good things are good. Everyone likes the good things. The bad things
> should be exposed and fixed. But not everyone has the guts to face the bad
> things. It's obvious where you stand.
>
>>
>> Neither of us is right or wrong in regards to Iraq at this point in time.
>> I didnt expect it to be 2 years ago when the War started either. Things
>> are looking better for freedom daily though and thats all we can hope for
>> and which was our original intent in Iraq, not WMD or Oil as your party
>> likes to think.

>
> That's just plain delusional. Iraq is a mess because of, A.)the
> incompetence of the Bush administration, B.)the deceit of the Bush
> administration, C.) both incompetence and deceit of the Bush
> administration. Anyway you look at it the people who created the problem
> are unlikely to be the ones to fix it.
>
> Marty



Ads
  #282  
Old April 4th 05, 01:31 AM
JP
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"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> JP wrote:
>
> > Hehe. As I said, UN officials blaming the US, besides their

allegations
> > of it being the US fault being untrue, is laughable. Hate to see their
> > breadwagon cut off, is where their interests were.

>
> No, you said *I* was blaming the US. I don't expect you to admit you
> were wrong, so lucky I'm here to keep you straight :-)


And this quote of yours means what then ? Want to keep something
straight, start with your statements.

"Wasn't it Americans tied in with the oil/food/sanctions genocide?
>>Massacring millions of innocent people to give them their freedom? As
>>the saying goes, that's like f***ing for virginity...."



>
> As for being afraid their breadwagon was being cut off, can I remind you
> that these two gentlemen voluntary *resigned* in horror and protest at
> what the sanctions were forcing them to do. i.e. they were firmly on
> your "breadwagon", and they CHOSE to get off.



Proof ?


>
> So, once again, your comments are shown as a steaming pile of horse
> manure....



Explain how so ? I've posted facts. You're still posting non-confirmed
quotes, theories, and opinions. So, explain exactly how so.


>
> >>In what way is it "nothing to do with the facts"? Come on, put up or
> >>shut up, it precisely represents the situation of the UN sanctions as
> >>would be applied to yourself.

> >
> > Read my response. The answers are their. Still and again.

>
> JP, they're not. Sorry, you're not going to get out of this one by
> stating again and again that you've answered. Explain to me how that
> analogy differs from the imposition of the sanctions.



You answer my questions first, since you've been dodging them, and we'll
go from there.


p.s. But for *starters*, the US/UK didn't stop food/medicine, as in this
line from your analogy.
"Now let's say I veto that (equivalent to US and UK) and will not allow even
food and medicine to you. "

Btw, what's that again about how you weren't blaming the US ?

Ok, answered yours. Once again, how about mine, for who knows how many
times I've posted it; the $ for oil/food were present. Yet, much of it was
pocketed by UN, European officials, and SH and his gang. Follow along
now...........that means all those $ that were supposed to buy food/medicine
didn't get to do so.............still with me ?.

So, since there was all this money wasted instead of used as it was
supposed to have been, how is it the US's fault ?

Or are you going to keep conviently ignoring this fact ?



>
> > Note the word "I" in my response. Don't see the words "Iraqi people"
> > anywhere in it. I responded in the same format as your analogy was
> > constructed.

>
> And my response was, if *you* were in the position of that analogy, how
> would you get out of it?


Simple. By living up to my end of the agreement. The one that I forced
upon myself.



>
> > Show me where I blamed the Iraqi people for the sanctions.

>
> You squarely blamed Iraq when you said;
>
> "And who's fault was it that the sanction existed in the first place,
> besides it being a *UN* sanction, also endorsed by Europe ?"


Exactly. Blamed Iraq. I.e., their govt. Fairly common sense to
understand that. Or, when you incorrectly say the US didn't allow
food/medicine, you mean the US people ?

Using your "reasoning" here, you would be, eh ?


>
> Or were you <s******> trying to blame the UN for a sanction demanded by
> the US and the UK?!


Ah, I see. Since you can't ignore the fact that all the sanctions were UN
sanctions, now you twist it so that they "don't really count" if you will,
because in your tin-beenied head, the US/UK demanded them.

First, proof of this latest incorrect allegation ?

Second, they were Security Council sanctions. Do some research on that
body, what countries are on it, and how it's vetoes/passing work. Hint: It
takes more than the US/UK to pass/veto a sanction via this council.



>
> > Btw, in your example (which is the first I've seen of it, so don't

know
> > where you get the idea of "As I've explained to you....") of where the $
> > went, you forgot some key players. SH and his cronies, and the various

UN
> > officials involved in the scam, all pocketing $.

>
> Sorry JP, not this time. Cite me proof, or quit flogging this dead
> horse. There is NO PROOF AT ALL that Saddam and his cronies were making
> out like bandits with any oil for food money, none at all. EVERYTHING
> was paid through the UN, and approved by the security council - that's
> the US, the UK, Europe and Canada.
>


Ah, the moonbat comes out in full force. Ok, here's a very small tip of
the iceberg start for you. Btw, you conviently left out the UN and European
officials that took $ too.

Anyway, here you go. Since you passed (your Murdoch comment was
interesting...ignored the CNN links, eh ?) over my earlier links to CNN and
FOX, I've included others this time too.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,132682,00.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in684085.shtml

(SH part toward the end here)


http://abcnews.go.com/International/...=471455&page=1

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=259502

Or maybe one closer to home.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4025057.stm


I had some NBC links too, but for some reason, the text was fubared upon
page loading. nbcnews.com if you're interested.



> >>Sorry JP, *YOU* need to get your facts straight. This occurred
> >>immediately after the resolution was passed. There was no time for
> >>Saddam to flaunt the sanctions, because food and medicine were not
> >>allowed from the moment the sanctions were introduced.


Not allowed ? Proof ?


> >>Utter and total rubbish. The US blocked food and medicine, both of which
> >>were allowed by the sanctions, despite the items being proven to have no


> >>possible link to any form of weapons manufacture.


Proof ?

> I have already posted this.


Then you should have no difficulty copying/pasting it. I haven't seen it.


>
> > Anyway, all SH had to do was live up to his end of the *UN* bargain,

which
> > came about because of *his* invasion of Kuwait, which was opposed by the
> > *UN*, and not corrupt the oil/food program, and the Iraqi's wouldn't

have
> > had to suffer (I won't bother addressing your non-proven numbers

listed ).
>
> You have yet to prove there was any irregularity at all in the oil for
> food, and the numbers have been proven by the UN and through
> journalistic channels.



*I* have yet to prove it ? You're the one who first claimed the US blocked
it. Proving things is on your end. Which you haven't yet btw. So put up
already. This thread has gone on long enough, without your showing any
proof at all of your myriad moonbat claims.


>
> Now if you can post me facts about oil for food (anyone locked up for
> these illegal activities) and prove to me that Madelaine Albright was
> high on drugs when she admitted half a million Iraqi children had been
> slaughtered, I'll think about responding to your foundationless

allegations.


Missed those earlier links, eh ? In this post and earlier. You're in a
serious state of delusion old boy. Denying facts, interesting.

So, I've backed up my statements with facts, links, etc. Even though
you're the one who starting making accusations, and while having been
repeatedly asked to prove them, have not, how about trying now ? So far,
all you've done is dodge every question for proof, while trying to change
subjects in each post. But I'm not surprised; the moonbat crowd always gets
nervous when facts are called for.

Put up or shut up. Simple concept really.




  #284  
Old April 5th 05, 02:03 AM
Bill Bollinger
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Default

No, I was comparing the number of jobs created in USA vs. Western Europe.

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com


"MartyU" > wrote in message
...
> Bill Bollinger wrote:
>> Yah, because that SOCIALIST Society you live in is so great at expanding
>> the quality of life </sarcasm>. Hmmm, wonder how many jobs have been
>> created in that Socialist Leaning Western Europe over the past 20 years?
>> Let's just say we have created more jobs in the past 5 years than all of
>> Western Europe has in the past 20 years.
>>
>>
>> The truth comes out: Socialist
>>
>> Bill Bollinger
>> www.gsxn.com

>
> Well, the facts seem to say otherwise.
>
> "Overall, this level of creation represents the worst job performance
> since the Bureau of Labor Statistics began collecting monthly jobs data in
> 1939 (at the end of the Great Depression"
>
> http://www.jobwatch.org/
>
> Of course it's not all bad news. Corporate profits are souring.
>
> Marty
>



  #285  
Old April 5th 05, 02:06 AM
Bill Bollinger
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The FACTS a Americans contribute nearly 1 trillion every year to
charities. You may think that is stingy, but that would be incorrect.

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com


"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> Your ex-President said the US is stingy - I did not.
>
> Get YOUR facts straight.
>
> Bill Bollinger wrote:
>> Well John, what you FAIL to quantify is how much Americans give FREELY
>> and not through Government Control. While you guys need someone at the
>> top to command you to give, we as a general rule give FREELY as
>> Americans. Your numbers only count for Government Aid, not what is given
>> in total by American citizens. The next time you imply that Americans as
>> a general rule are STINGY, get your facts straight.
>>
>> BTW, Just through our GOVERNAMENT not including our citizens, we give 60
>> TIMES ($58 Billion more in total) more than Denmark does in forein aid.
>> BTW, our country does not have 60 times more citizens than Denmark and
>> Denmark has a higher GDP per capita than America... Therefore, based upon
>> the higher GDP per capita why isn't Denmark contributing more?
>>
>> Bill Bollinger
>> www.gsxn.com
>>
>>
>> "John Wallace" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Mitch_A wrote:
>>>
>>>>Somehow you can just blind yourself of anything good the US has ever
>>>
>>>done.
>>>
>>>>Do we make mistakes? Of course we do. But we also contribute much more
>>>>than weve taken unlike a majority of the free world.
>>>
>>>Sorry Mitch, that just isn't true
>>>
>>>The UN set a target of 0.7% of GDP should be given as aid - this target
>>>was recently increased in response to public demands to resolve the
>>>tragedies occurring daily in Africa.
>>>
>>>Top of the foreign aid league is Denmark (1.01% of GDP), and Sweden,
>>>Norway and the Netherlands also meet the target. The US gives 0.1% of GDP
>>>as aid, as former President Carter described, "we are the stingiest
>>>nation of all". We're little better, Britain gives just 0.34%.
>>>
>>>In the last foreign aid bill passed in the US, 75 million was passed for
>>>aif to poor countries (this amounts to one tenth the cost of a B-52!). In
>>>the same budget, 1.3 *BILLION* was approved to support the Colombian
>>>military (who have one of the world's worst records for human rights
>>>violations).
>>>
>>>
>>>>Im not saying this in
>>>>an egotistical way Im saying this in defensive way. The US (despite
>>>
>>>your
>>>
>>>>clouded nonsense) is a great country and a great collection of people
>>>
>>>that
>>>
>>>>want the best for the World and everyone in it.
>>>
>>>Mitch, I *truly* believe that is what you and most US people want, and
>>>it's a fantastic sentiment. However that is not what is happening.

>>
>>


  #286  
Old April 5th 05, 02:07 AM
Bill Bollinger
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Posts: n/a
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You are the one who has pigeon-hold himself. Not my fault that many of the
Western European countries lean to the socialist side and wonder why they
cannot grow their economies and are falling behind.

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com


"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> Don't try and pigeon-hole me into your nice little theories - you have no
> idea. If you can't keep your predjudice out of a discussion, keep yourself
> out of a discussion.
>
> I'd have thought it was obvious after a lifetime on usenet, that you will
> never change the other person's view, and if you set out with that in mind
> you are just wasting your time. Geberally the fruitful discussions are
> those that elicit sufficient quality of response that you can challenge
> your OWN beliefs and learn something new for yourself. That at least is
> what I hope for.
>
> Bill Bollinger wrote:
>> Yah, because that SOCIALIST Society you live in is so great at expanding
>> the quality of life </sarcasm>. Hmmm, wonder how many jobs have been
>> created in that Socialist Leaning Western Europe over the past 20 years?
>> Let's just say we have created more jobs in the past 5 years than all of
>> Western Europe has in the past 20 years.
>>
>>
>> The truth comes out: Socialist
>>
>> Bill Bollinger
>> www.gsxn.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "John Wallace" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Asgeir Nesoen wrote:
>>>
>>>>I know that the US generally think that the high oil prices are OPEC's
>>>>fault, yes. But it is not. And it is soooo pathetic watching the
>>>>brooding and pouting: "They won't pump enough oil so that we can use
>>>>*way, *way* more than we have ourselves for the prices that we want.
>>>>Booohoooooooo!"
>>>>
>>>>JFYI, this is just the lovely, lovely mechanisms of capitalism: Demand
>>>>and Availability. LOL!!!
>>>>
>>>>I eagerly await the times when oil is so expensive that you americans
>>>>will have to let your SUV in the garage and take the bus to work. I
>>>>*eagerly* await it! And it is not that far off in the future either!!!
>>>>
>>>>Gas prices are escalating as well, and have reached a point in US where
>>>>people start converting to other heating sources. However, this is not
>>>>OPEC's fault, simply because they don't control the market. The prices
>>>>get high because everyone needs it, there is less and less of it, and US
>>>>is the biggest consumer on the planet. And while you americans are
>>>>concerned with your oil prices, this planet goes to rot, and you ignore
>>>>the facts like ignorant heedless children do.
>>>
>>>Amen, well said.
>>>
>>>Ram the free market down everyone's throat, then scream and moan when
>>>supply and demand pushed oil over $1/gallon. (Then just "fix it" by
>>>invading Iraq, Iran (oops, sorry, not yet), change Afghanistan
>>>government, etc.
>>>
>>>By the way, when you guys go to invade Iran, I'm *really, really* sorry
>>>about all the chemical weapons we Brits sold them. Just in case that is
>>>used as a justification (WMDs and all that), we sold them to Iram after
>>>(9/11). I know Bush was talking about "axis of evil" and all that, but
>>>money is money, y'know...

>>
>>


  #287  
Old April 5th 05, 02:08 AM
Bill Bollinger
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He also forgets to even mention where MOST corporate profits come from in
USA: Privately held corporations, NOT publically held corporations. Public
companies get the press, but contribute much less to the overall health of
our economy.



"JP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Wallace" > wrote in message
> ...
>> JP wrote:
>>
>> > What's wrong with corporate profits ? Just curious is all.

>>
>> New Motorola CEO fired 38,000 people, and got 38 million dollars as his
>> reward for a year's work.
>>
>> Nothing is wrong with profit, but if you think that is good for you as a
>> worker, I can only say good luck to you.

>
>
> <shrug> Maybe. One thing for certain; a corporation NOT making a
> profit
> isn't good for workers. I.e., Motorola, I would bet (not having looked at
> their details).
>
>



  #288  
Old April 5th 05, 02:14 AM
Bill Bollinger
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Just on a side note: I treat the CEO pay no different than Sports Hero's
pay. We as a public are the only ones to blame. We make up the owners of
these companies and allow it to happen. On another side note, even with our
"excess" it has created more wealth, jobs and supported more charities than
any other country in the world. Not to mention more freedoms.

Bill Bollinger
www.gsxn.com


"JP" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Wallace" > wrote in message
> ...
>> JP wrote:
>> > "John Wallace" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >
>> >>JP wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> What's wrong with corporate profits ? Just curious is all.
>> >>
>> >>New Motorola CEO fired 38,000 people, and got 38 million dollars as his
>> >>reward for a year's work.
>> >>
>> >>Nothing is wrong with profit, but if you think that is good for you as
>> >>a
>> >>worker, I can only say good luck to you.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > <shrug> Maybe. One thing for certain; a corporation NOT making a

> profit
>> > isn't good for workers. I.e., Motorola, I would bet (not having looked

> at
>> > their details).

>>
>> No profits is surely worse! <g> However there is surely an element of
>> "how much is enough"? What is the CEO going to do with 38 million that
>> he couldn't have done with 28 million? Or 18 million?

>
>
> Definately.
>
>
>>
>> In Scandinavia CEOs get poaid, on average, 11 times more than the
>> average salary in their company. Across Europe it's a little higher, but
>> less than twenty times more is typical.
>>
>> In the US it's 300 times more.
>>
>> At what point does it become greed, and should we ever think that is bad?

>
>
> Agreed. One of my "sore points" also, in the current day. Don't know
> if
> your numbers are correct, but that's irrelevant, as overall, the general
> situation does exist.
>
>



  #289  
Old April 5th 05, 02:26 AM
Bill Bollinger
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Yah kind of like Clinton did with Nuclear Secrets (Off Topic).

Mitch do you even know what jobs have been outsourced the most over the past
5 years? Are there any jobs that shouldn't be outsourced?

Here is a little economics 101: Countries can normally be seperated on 1 of
2 ways. They either are rich in labor or rich in capital. Obviously USA is
rich in capital. It is also the norm that a country rich in capital is also
poor in labor (High costs or low number of a quality labor force).

Therefore, lets look at a refridgerator as an example. 70 years ago, it was
not uncommon for people to pay upwards of 20-25% of their ANNUAL income for
a fridge (a large amount of profit was available - BECAUSE it was a higher
tech product for its time) today people can pay less than 500 for a fridge
that would only have been dreamed about 70 years ago. As product life
cycles mature, the level of profit will normally drop and companies have to
look to cut costs.

Is it SMART for us to continue to force our economy to produce low
profitable fridges? I say not.

Our economy is evolving to an economy that will continue to emphasize
education, health care and new technologies. It means that an education
will become more and more important and valuable. Example: 1970 ---
Average college degree only meant an additional 50% more lifetime
earnings... Today it is over 80% more lifetime earnings.


Bill Bollinger


"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> Mitch_A wrote:
>> Thats the fundamental difference. If WE dont like Motorola we dont buy
>> Motorola products and soon Motorola will be gone.

>
> Just for discussion sake, what if you do like their products, but they're
> all outsourced to China and the CEO takes 100 million dollars?
>
> Is there a point at which a halt should be called, or does the old
> "Reaganomics" apply, of what's good for the money markets is good for the
> country?



  #290  
Old April 5th 05, 02:28 AM
Bill Bollinger
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Posts: n/a
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"John Wallace" > wrote in message
...
> The point is that in the specific case you cited, giving aid to other
> countries, the US falls well short of the standards agreed to by the UN.



Ok, this just about makes me puke. Standards and the UN said in one
statement.

Bill Bollinger


 




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