Conventional oil hard to find?

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 20:51:08 -0600, lowbrowwoman, the endlessly driveling,
troll-feeding, senile idiot, blabbered again:


> My Toyota has a spin on filter that I can reach down from the top and
> spin off. If I'm lucky I don't drop it in the pan.
>
> Disclaimer: that's after the first change. The first time around I need
> a filter wrench to break the OEM filter loose.
>
> When I'm looking at cars I open the hood and take inventory to make sure
> it's maintainable. I'll admit the first Yaris fooled me. I thought the
> ignition wires were hiding under the plastic panel but it doesn't have any.

****! Do you really have NOBODY to talk to in RL, senile gossip? One can
almost feel your social deficits that you keep living out here by babbling
endlessly about each and every thing.

On 3/28/2021 8:16 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 3/28/21 7:21 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
>> In article >, says...
>>>
>>> Of course you change your filter every timeÂ* you change your oil!
>>>
>>> Here's why:
>>> You're already underneath the vehicle.
>>> The drain pan is in already place.
>>> You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
>>> You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
>>> Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
>>> Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You have not changed the filter on some of the newer cars.Â* Toyota has
>> gone to an old timey cartrage type filter instead of the screw on ones.
>> You often have to remove much of the shielding or whatever you call that
>> stuff under the engine that helps with the wind resistance.
>>
>> As I have gotten lazy in the last few years and don't drive much, I just
>> take my car and truck to the dealer once a year and let them service it
>> and inspect it. Doubt they change the filter, but who knows ?
>>
>>
>>
> You're right, it's been a while since I've been underneath a Toyota.
> Didn't know about the change to hidden cartridge filters.
>
> The oil filter in my wife's Subaru Forester is located on the top side
> of the engine opposite the battery with its threaded end facing down.
> You can remove the filter wearing white gloves and stay clean. The mess
> that drips down into the engine and onto the garage floor is another
> story however.
>

I had a 1998 Forester and filter and drain plug were on the bottom of
the engine and I had to use ramps to get at it and remove a cowling with
half dozen or so plastic push ins to get at it. In next few years they
put in a small entry point in the cowling with still push ins to remove
then finally drain point unrestricted with filter on top of engine.

I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a
struggle getting off the factory installed filter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UOy-nq-QYE

On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
> I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
> much driving just have the dealer service it. Out of curiosity I
> watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
> getting off the factory installed filter.

They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
at the factory. I've gotten a collection of those end cap things over
the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
strap wrench.

On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
> On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
>> I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
>> much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
>> watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
>> getting off the factory installed filter.
>
> They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
> at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap things over
> the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
> strap wrench.

I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
space under my Forester when I went to change the oil. I made the
dealer take it off and replace it with my filter. I had been screwed on
a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
engine flush.

On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
> On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
>> On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
>>> I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
>>> much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
>>> watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a struggle
>>> getting off the factory installed filter.
>>
>> They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal touches
>> at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap things over
>> the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall back on the
>> strap wrench.
>
> I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
> space under my Forester when I went to change the oil.Â* I made the
> dealer take it off and replace it with my filter.Â* I had been screwed on
> a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of months
> before I went in and did not realize that they had done an unnecessary
> engine flush.

Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.

The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.

OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
supermarket across the street" ;-)

--
Name one time in human history when the group seeking to ban books and
censor speech were the good guys. I'll wait...

On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett > wrote:

> I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
> please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak

Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.

On 3/29/2021 1:40 PM, mike wrote:
> On 29-03-2021 22:28 Wade Garrett > wrote:
>
>> I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here, please
>> cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak
>
> Some apply courking fees to cover their costs when you bring your parts.


Waterfront Restaurant on Anna Maria Island advertises "You catch, we cook"

On 3/29/2021 12:58 PM, Wade Garrett wrote:
> On 3/29/21 10:52 AM, Frank wrote:
>> On 3/29/2021 10:02 AM, rbowman wrote:
>>> On 03/29/2021 06:49 AM, Frank wrote:
>>>> I have a Crosstrek now configured the same and in latter years with not
>>>> much driving just have the dealer service it.Â* Out of curiosity I
>>>> watched a You Tube video on a guy changing the oil and he had a
>>>> struggle
>>>> getting off the factory installed filter.
>>>
>>> They haven't read the part about a quarter turn after the seal
>>> touches at the factory. I've gotten a collectionÂ* of those end cap
>>> things over the years and generally have one that fits. If not I fall
>>> back on the strap wrench.
>>
>> I had the dealer put on a filter I could not get off in the limited
>> space under my Forester when I went to change the oil.Â* I made the
>> dealer take it off and replace it with my filter.Â* I had been screwed
>> on a 60,000 mile service where I had changed the oil a couple of
>> months before I went in and did not realize that they had done an
>> unnecessary engine flush.
>
> Surprising the dealer would install a part you supplied.
>
> The usual party line why they won't do it is that the dealership
> agreement prohibits installing anything but factory/OEM parts due to
> liability and fit/function issues...the real reason being they don't
> make any money on the part- just on the labor to install it.
>
> OTOH, I can't imagine going into a nice restaurant and saying "here,
> please cook and serve me this nice sirloin steak I bought in the
> supermarket across the street"Â* ;-)
>

It was a while back but the complete story was I had taken the car to
the dealer for the 60,000 mile check up and when I brought it in asked
the cost and what it entailed and they told me to wait and they would
get back to me. I waited several minutes but then my wife came to take
me home and I did not get it and found out when I picked up the car. I
was ****ed at the cost in part as engine flush is not really required
along with necessary oil and filter change. Then to find they put on a
filter that I could not remove must have got me really ****ed because
they changed the filter at no charge.

To answer other response, I have had plumbers install items that I bought.

On 22-03-2021 23:20 mike > wrote:
I called Kirkland (Warren Distribution is the blender in Omaha Nebraska).
https://warrendistribution.com/contact/
(800)825-1235 x1 customer service, x1 again for customer service
They called back but I missed it so I'm gonna have to try again.

Meanwhile I spent about an hour on the line with Mobil.

Mobil (https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/contact-us)
(800)662-4525 x1 (non commercial) x1 (motor oil)
The guy who answered wasn't good enough so he patched me thru
to the second level technical support after he pointed me to the datasheets.
http://exxonmobil.com/pds
https://www.exxonmobil.com/en/pds#f:Location=[United%20States]

But the guy didn't know how to answer my questions about motor oil selection
so he transferred me to a second level who transferred me to a supervisor
after a while (which was nice of them as each knew more than the prior).

What I did while I was waiting was pullup a random Costco Mobil 1
https://www.costco.com/mobil-super-s...100594938.html

And pulled up the datasheet
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...thetic-10w-30/

The 2nd level just gave me more lookup engines for personal vehicles
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants

For example you can put in your year make and model to find their oil
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...ght-motor-oil/

But it pretty much suggests all their oils (not surprisingly)
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

If it says Super it's a blend, if it says Mobil 1 it's full.
(Except the exception of Mobil Super Synthetic 10W-30).

If it says "Extended Performance" it's high mileage (20K / 1 year).
If it says "Advanced Fuel Economy" it's not for high mileage.

Basically they only gave me mostly the marketing that was on the outside.
High Mileage & super blends don't meet the dexos spec.
He basically said the full synthetic is better than the blends.
But he said there are no rules anywhere for what constitutes what.

As an aside, he said synthetic oil finds leaks not causes them.
He defended oil detergents as exposing leaks (by cleaning out gunk).

When I asked about filters he said they don't make filters.
He said all Mobile oil filters are rated at 1 year 20k miles.
Mobil contracts out to Mann-Hummel who also makes Wix & Purolator filters.
1-919-926-4210 (temporary covid number for Mann-Hummel)
x1 product information hotline (M-F 8am to 7:30pm, Sat 9am to 5:30pm)
https://www.mann-hummel.com/en/
https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/...8/896/1265/0/1

Mann-Hummel didn't know the answers to the questions so they said they'd
have a support person write to me over email (so I'm waiting for that).
--
BTW, he said Penzoil starts with natural gas for their synthetics.

On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 13:17:25 -0400, Wade Garrett posted for all of us to
digest...

>
> On 3/28/21 10:28 AM, Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > Xeno > wrote:
> >>
> >> Oil in the engine is undergoing a continuous breakdown process.
> >> Actually, if the truth be known, it is the additives in the oil which
> >> are breaking down. So, when dealing with oil change intervals, two
> >> factors need to be considered; additive depletion and oil contamination.
> >> These are like the proverbial piece of string - there is no hard and
> >> fast rule on when additives are sufficiently depleted or the oil
> >> sufficiently contaminated to warrant an oil change. Ditto for the oil
> >> filter.
> >
> > Yes. In most cases, the VI is breaking down faster than the base oil.
> >
> > However, if you're driving an old car with a lot of blowby, you may find
> > that contamination of the oil becomes a problem before breakdown does.
> > On the other hand, if you're driving a new car in widely varying temperatures
> > you may find VI breakdown becomes an issue long before contamination.
> >
> >> When I was an apprentice, and later, a rule of thumb, backed by the
> >> vehicle owner manuals, was an oil change every 5,000 km (3,000 mi) with
> >> a filter change every 10,000 km (6,000 mi). This was the norm for the
> >> average 6 cylinder vehicles (GM, Ford, Chrysler) of the day, 4 cylinder
> >> vehicles had more frequent oil changes.
> >>
> >> What has happened since then? Oils (and their additives) have improved
> >> out of sight. Also, engine ventilation systems (PCV) have improved
> >> vastly. This has extended the oil change intervals. My car, a Toyota,
> >> has the oil *and* filter change interval *recommended* by the
> >> manufacturer at 10,000 km (6,000 mi). So, the oil change interval has
> >> been doubled but the oil filter change interval seems to have remained
> >> static.
> >
> > Yes, this is true. Also we have many cars which use an algorithm to
> > estimate the state of the oil given the time and driving conditions,
> > and which can more precisely estimate proper oil change intervals.
> >
> >> What seems to have been forgotten here is that the recommended oil
> >> change interval will depend on the use made of the vehicle. If you do a
> >> lot of short runs where the engine never warms up sufficiently, you will
> >> experience greater wear factors and increased oil contamination
> >> requiring shorter than recommended oil change interval. Will that impact
> >> the filter change interval? Maybe. It really depends on the filter
> >> capacity - the point at which the filter will block up and commence
> >> bypass. A large filter of, say, 1 litre (1 quart) capacity might not
> >> need to be changed more frequently. On the other hand, a small filter
> >> with half or a quarter of the capacity might need to have a more
> >> frequent change interval.
> >
> > Bingo.
> > --scott
> >
> It's really hard for me to understand why this is such a long thread
> that includes so many erudite discussions of motor oil chemistry and
> operation.
>
> Of course you change your filter every time you change your oil!
>
> Here's why:
> You're already underneath the vehicle.
> The drain pan is in already place.
> You already have oily hands and a greasy smear on your face.
> You've already skinned your right hand knuckles and yelled Damn it!
> Walmart sells a standard Fram oil filter for $3.88 while Fram's "Ultra
> Synthetic 20,000 Mile Change Interval" filter goes for $8.57.
>
> I haven't run the filter/car cost ratio/percentage yet...but I paid
> $44,762 for my ride...

*mike* is a nym for a guy named Arlen Holder. Look up his history and decide
for yourself. He likes to nit pick on really minuscule issues and then argue.
I'm lucky to be in his kill file. Erudite is a good word.

--
Tekkie