Rip-off?

On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> >> > > wrote:
>
> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
> >> >>>> That service is:
> >> >>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
> >> >>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
> >> >>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
> >> >>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
> >> >>>> Change ATF
> >> >>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
> >> >>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
> >> >>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
> >> >>>> Harry K
> >> >>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
> >> >>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
> >> >>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
> >> >>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
> >> >>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
> >> >>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
> >> >>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
> >> >>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
> >> >>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
> >> >>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> >> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
> >> >> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
> >> >> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
> >> >> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>
> >> >> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
> >> >> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
> >> >> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
> >> >> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>
> >> >> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
> >> >> routine lube/oil job.
>
> >> >> Harry K
>
> >> > Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
> >> > for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
> >> > schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". *They
> >> > will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
> >> > service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
> >> > When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
> >> > tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
> >> > 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
> >> > thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
> >> > it.
>
> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
> >> * *50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
> >> change.
>
> >> nate
>
> >> --
> >> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >In my case, 'severe service' is called for. *I live righton a busy 2
> >lane highway and have an uphill go for a mile as I leave the
> >driveway. *All too often I have to get from 0 to 65 on a cold engine
> >in a quarter mile to fit into the stream. *I do usually give a a
> >minute or so warmup first but even that doesn't help much.
>
> >Harry K
>
> How will changing the oil more frequently help that situation? *The
> new oil will still be just as cold.

It won't be as diluted with fuel.

nate

On 2009-10-12, N8N > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>> >> > > wrote:
>>
>> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>>
>> >> >>> > wrote:
>> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
>> >> >>>> That service is:
>> >> >>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
>> >> >>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
>> >> >>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
>> >> >>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
>> >> >>>> Change ATF
>> >> >>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
>> >> >>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
>> >> >>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
>> >> >>>> Harry K
>> >> >>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
>> >> >>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
>> >> >>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
>> >> >>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
>> >> >>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
>> >> >>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
>> >> >>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
>> >> >>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
>> >> >>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
>> >> >>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
>> >> >> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
>> >> >> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
>> >> >> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
>> >> >> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>>
>> >> >> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
>> >> >> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
>> >> >> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
>> >> >> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>>
>> >> >> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
>> >> >> routine lube/oil job.
>>
>> >> >> Harry K
>>
>> >> > Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
>> >> > for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
>> >> > schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". *They
>> >> > will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
>> >> > service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
>> >> > When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
>> >> > tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
>> >> > 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
>> >> > thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
>> >> > it.
>>
>> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
>> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
>> >> * *50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
>> >> change.
>>
>> >> nate
>>
>> >> --
>> >> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> >In my case, 'severe service' is called for. *I live righton a busy 2
>> >lane highway and have an uphill go for a mile as I leave the
>> >driveway. *All too often I have to get from 0 to 65 on a cold engine
>> >in a quarter mile to fit into the stream. *I do usually give a a
>> >minute or so warmup first but even that doesn't help much.
>>
>> >Harry K
>>
>> How will changing the oil more frequently help that situation? *The
>> new oil will still be just as cold.
>
> It won't be as diluted with fuel.

but so long as the engine did get warmed up at some point in the trip,
the starting point each morning will be about the same.

On Oct 12, 9:15*am, Brent > wrote:
> On 2009-10-12, N8N > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> >> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> >> >> > > wrote:
>
> >> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> >> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.

On Oct 12, 6:42*am, N8N > wrote:
> On Oct 12, 9:15*am, Brent > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 2009-10-12, N8N > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> > >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> > >> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > >> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> > >> >> > > wrote:
>
> > >> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> > >> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> > >> >> >>> > wrote:
> > >> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
> > >> >> >>>> That service is:
> > >> >> >>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
> > >> >> >>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
> > >> >> >>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
> > >> >> >>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
> > >> >> >>>> Change ATF
> > >> >> >>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
> > >> >> >>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
> > >> >> >>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
> > >> >> >>>> Harry K
> > >> >> >>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
> > >> >> >>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
> > >> >> >>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
> > >> >> >>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
> > >> >> >>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
> > >> >> >>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
> > >> >> >>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
> > >> >> >>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
> > >> >> >>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
> > >> >> >>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
> > >> >> >> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
> > >> >> >> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
> > >> >> >> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
> > >> >> >> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>
> > >> >> >> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
> > >> >> >> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
> > >> >> >> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
> > >> >> >> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining..
>
> > >> >> >> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
> > >> >> >> routine lube/oil job.
>
> > >> >> >> Harry K
>
> > >> >> > Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
> > >> >> > for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
> > >> >> > schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". *They
> > >> >> > will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
> > >> >> > service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
> > >> >> > When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
> > >> >> > tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
> > >> >> > 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
> > >> >> > thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
> > >> >> > it.
>
> > >> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
> > >> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
> > >> >> * *50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
> > >> >> change.
>
> > >> >> nate
>
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequotedtext -
>
> > >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > >> >In my case, 'severe service' is called for. *I live righton a busy 2
> > >> >lane highway and have an uphill go for a mile as I leave the
> > >> >driveway. *All too often I have to get from 0 to 65 on a cold engine
> > >> >in a quarter mile to fit into the stream. *I do usually give a a
> > >> >minute or so warmup first but even that doesn't help much.
>
> > >> >Harry K
>
> > >> How will changing the oil more frequently help that situation? *The
> > >> new oil will still be just as cold.
>
> > > It won't be as diluted with fuel.
>
> > but so long as the engine did get warmed up at some point in the trip,
> > the starting point each morning will be about the same.
>
> I would suspect that high throttle opening operation while cold will
> dilute fuel more than driving gently, and also may put more
> particulates into the oil from incomplete combustion. *Also it does
> take a while at full-temp operation to vaporize all the fuel out of
> the oil, if in fact it ever does completely vaporize. *In any case, I
> would think that that would definitely qualify as "severe service"
> operation.
>
> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My error. I realized after posting thiat I should have added: My
usual drive is only 4 miles to town, shop, 4 miles back so it does not
get properly warmed up.

That is about the epitome of 'severe service'.

Harry K

On Oct 12, 3:08*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:47:20 -0400, Nate Nagel >
> > wrote:
>
> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> >>> > wrote:
>
> >>>> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> >>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
> >>>>>> That service is:
> >>>>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
> >>>>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
> >>>>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
> >>>>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
> >>>>>> Change ATF
> >>>>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
> >>>>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
> >>>>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
> >>>>>> Harry K
> >>>>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
> >>>>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
> >>>>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
> >>>>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
> >>>>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
> >>>>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
> >>>>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
> >>>>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
> >>>>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
> >>>>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>>> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
> >>>> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
> >>>> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
> >>>> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>
> >>>> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
> >>>> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
> >>>> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
> >>>> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>
> >>>> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
> >>>> routine lube/oil job.
>
> >>>> Harry K
>
> >>> Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
> >>> for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
> >>> schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". *They
> >>> will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
> >>> service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
> >>> When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
> >>> tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
> >>> 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
> >>> thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
> >>> it.
> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
> >> * 50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
> >> change.
>
> >> nate
>
> > Do you really think a car used as a taxi needs it's oil changed every
> > 3000 miles??? *Maybe in 1958 but not in 2009.
>
> Read the owner's manual for your new car, they don't recommend 3000 mile
> oil changes even for "severe service." *And taxi service is likely
> easier on a car than the way most people drive. *Read the qualifications
> for "severe service," you probably qualify.
>
> nate
>
> --
> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

My owner's manual for the 500 says 3,000 for severe service. As for
taxi's that shuld qualify for 'babying service' and change every
40,000 miles

Harry K

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> wrote:

>On Oct 12, 6:42*am, N8N > wrote:
>> On Oct 12, 9:15*am, Brent > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 2009-10-12, N8N > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> > >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>>
>> > >> > wrote:
>> > >> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
>> > >> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> > >> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>> > >> >> > > wrote:
>>
>> > >> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>> > >> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>>
>> > >> >> >>> > wrote:
>> > >> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
>> > >> >> >>>> That service is:
>> > >> >> >>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
>> > >> >> >>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
>> > >> >> >>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
>> > >> >> >>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
>> > >> >> >>>> Change ATF
>> > >> >> >>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
>> > >> >> >>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
>> > >> >> >>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
>> > >> >> >>>> Harry K
>> > >> >> >>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
>> > >> >> >>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
>> > >> >> >>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
>> > >> >> >>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
>> > >> >> >>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
>> > >> >> >>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
>> > >> >> >>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
>> > >> >> >>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
>> > >> >> >>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
>> > >> >> >>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> > >> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
>> > >> >> >> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
>> > >> >> >> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
>> > >> >> >> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
>> > >> >> >> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>>
>> > >> >> >> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
>> > >> >> >> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
>> > >> >> >> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
>> > >> >> >> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>>
>> > >> >> >> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
>> > >> >> >> routine lube/oil job.
>>
>> > >> >> >> Harry K
>>
>> > >> >> > Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
>> > >> >> > for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
>> > >> >> > schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". *They
>> > >> >> > will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
>> > >> >> > service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
>> > >> >> > When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
>> > >> >> > tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
>> > >> >> > 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
>> > >> >> > thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
>> > >> >> > it.
>>
>> > >> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
>> > >> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
>> > >> >> * *50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
>> > >> >> change.
>>
>> > >> >> nate
>>
>> > >> >> --
>> > >> >> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequotedtext -
>>
>> > >> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > >> >In my case, 'severe service' is called for. *I live righton a busy 2
>> > >> >lane highway and have an uphill go for a mile as I leave the
>> > >> >driveway. *All too often I have to get from 0 to 65 on a cold engine
>> > >> >in a quarter mile to fit into the stream. *I do usually give a a
>> > >> >minute or so warmup first but even that doesn't help much.
>>
>> > >> >Harry K
>>
>> > >> How will changing the oil more frequently help that situation? *The
>> > >> new oil will still be just as cold.
>>
>> > > It won't be as diluted with fuel.
>>
>> > but so long as the engine did get warmed up at some point in the trip,
>> > the starting point each morning will be about the same.
>>
>> I would suspect that high throttle opening operation while cold will
>> dilute fuel more than driving gently, and also may put more
>> particulates into the oil from incomplete combustion. *Also it does
>> take a while at full-temp operation to vaporize all the fuel out of
>> the oil, if in fact it ever does completely vaporize. *In any case, I
>> would think that that would definitely qualify as "severe service"
>> operation.
>>
>> nate- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>My error. I realized after posting thiat I should have added: My
>usual drive is only 4 miles to town, shop, 4 miles back so it does not
>get properly warmed up.
>
>That is about the epitome of 'severe service'.
>
>Harry K


OK, with that added tidbit I agree with you that you are not doing
your car any favors and changing the oil fairly often is a good idea.
All the car makers say all you need to do it just let the car run for
maybe 30 seconds and you are good to go, no need to "warm" it up like
in the old days. With all the computer controls there is not going to
be much fuel dilution but with your driving cycle I would expect there
would be quite a bit of condensation. Have you considered buying an
electric motorcycle??

On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 06:08:16 -0400, Nate Nagel >
wrote:

>Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:47:20 -0400, Nate Nagel >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
>>>>>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
>>>>>>> That service is:
>>>>>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
>>>>>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
>>>>>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
>>>>>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
>>>>>>> Change ATF
>>>>>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
>>>>>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. Gee I
>>>>>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
>>>>>>> Harry K
>>>>>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. But unless
>>>>>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
>>>>>> ATF, just checking the level. And if there's been no sign of it
>>>>>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. All you
>>>>>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
>>>>>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. Wouldn't hurt to
>>>>>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. But
>>>>>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
>>>>>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
>>>>>> calipers for $400. - Hide quoted text -
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>>>> That is about my take on it. The letter lists the same service items
>>>>> plus several more at 45k. Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? I
>>>>> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. I think I will
>>>>> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>>>>>
>>>>> As to taking a couple of hours? I don't see anything there that would
>>>>> take that long. I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
>>>>> bad. Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
>>>>> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
>>>>> routine lube/oil job.
>>>>>
>>>>> Harry K
>>>>
>>>> Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
>>>> for in the owners manual. And most owners manuals have two service
>>>> schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service". They
>>>> will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
>>>> service. So "normal" is only 10%!!! Defies the definition of normal.
>>>> When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
>>>> tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
>>>> 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. A trip
>>>> thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
>>>> it.
>>> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
>>> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
>>> 50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
>>> change.
>>>
>>> nate
>>
>>
>> Do you really think a car used as a taxi needs it's oil changed every
>> 3000 miles??? Maybe in 1958 but not in 2009.
>
>Read the owner's manual for your new car, they don't recommend 3000 mile
>oil changes even for "severe service." And taxi service is likely
>easier on a car than the way most people drive. Read the qualifications
>for "severe service," you probably qualify.
>
>nate


They do in my owners manual. 3000 mile oil changes for the severe
service schedule and I'm pretty sure they listed taxi service. That's
what seemed strange to me in this day and age. Taxi service is
actually pretty easy on an modern computer controlled engine.

On Oct 12, 2:15*pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:24:43 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
> >On Oct 12, 6:42*am, N8N > wrote:
> >> On Oct 12, 9:15*am, Brent > wrote:
>
> >> > On 2009-10-12, N8N > wrote:
>
> >> > > On Oct 12, 12:12*am, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >> > >> On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 07:24:05 -0700 (PDT), harry k
>
> >> > >> > wrote:
> >> > >> >On Oct 11, 5:47*am, Nate Nagel > wrote:
> >> > >> >> Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> > >> >> > On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 20:18:49 -0700 (PDT), harry k
> >> > >> >> > > wrote:
>
> >> > >> >> >> On Oct 9, 4:55 pm, Ashton Crusher > wrote:
> >> > >> >> >>> On Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:45:44 -0700 (PDT), Harry K
>
> >> > >> >> >>> > wrote:
> >> > >> >> >>>> Just got a letter sayign I need a 30,000 service on the Ford 500.
> >> > >> >> >>>> That service is:
> >> > >> >> >>>> Inspect, ATF level;brake pads,lines,hoses,etc; engine cooling sytem
> >> > >> >> >>>> and hoses; inspect and lubricate all non-sealed steering and drive
> >> > >> >> >>>> line items (ball joints, etc);inspect exhaust system.
> >> > >> >> >>>> Replace fuel filter, air filter
> >> > >> >> >>>> Change ATF
> >> > >> >> >>>> So for a quick look at a bunch of things and lube a few joints plus
> >> > >> >> >>>> change the ATF, fuel and air filters they want $500 plus. *Gee I
> >> > >> >> >>>> wonder just how many parts they will find that need replacing.
> >> > >> >> >>>> Harry K
> >> > >> >> >>> Sounds like about a $150 worth of work including parts. *But unless
> >> > >> >> >>> you are using your car for a Taxi it wouldn't include replacing teh
> >> > >> >> >>> ATF, just checking the level. *And if there's been no sign of it
> >> > >> >> >>> leaking there is no reason the level would not be right. *All you
> >> > >> >> >>> should need, under the normal service schedule, at 30K is a change of
> >> > >> >> >>> air filter and a lube and oil change and filter. *Wouldn't hurt to
> >> > >> >> >>> check the front brakes for wear. That might add $35 to the bill. *But
> >> > >> >> >>> if they are slightly under half worn you can be sure they will try to
> >> > >> >> >>> sell you new pads, machine the rotors and possible rebuild the
> >> > >> >> >>> calipers for $400. *- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> > >> >> >>> - Show quoted text -
> >> > >> >> >> That is about my take on it. *The letter lists the same service items
> >> > >> >> >> plus several more at 45k. *Gee, ATF needs replacing every 15k? *I
> >> > >> >> >> think I will pass on the 30K, have it doen at 45K. *I think I will
> >> > >> >> >> take that list to my independant and have him bid on the same work.
>
> >> > >> >> >> As to taking a couple of hours? *I don't see anything there that would
> >> > >> >> >> take that long. *I haven't replaced ATF before but it can't be that
> >> > >> >> >> bad. *Inspecting all those parts using a magnifying glass shouldn't
> >> > >> >> >> run over an hour and can be done while the fluids are draining.
>
> >> > >> >> >> Sounds like if things get much worse one will have to finance a
> >> > >> >> >> routine lube/oil job.
>
> >> > >> >> >> Harry K
>
> >> > >> >> > Most shops have "service schedules" that go WAY beyond what is called
> >> > >> >> > for in the owners manual. *And most owners manuals have two service
> >> > >> >> > schedules, one for "normal" use and one for "severe service".. *They
> >> > >> >> > will tell about 90% of the people that their use constitutes severe
> >> > >> >> > service. *So "normal" is only 10%!!! *Defies the definition of normal.
> >> > >> >> > When the transmission went out on my 80 Pontiac at 25K they tried to
> >> > >> >> > tell me that it wasn't covered because I didn't change the fluid at
> >> > >> >> > 15K like the sign they had posted on the wall said I should. *A trip
> >> > >> >> > thru the owners manual convinced them that they were going to pay for
> >> > >> >> > it.
>
> >> > >> >> 15K shouldn't be necessary, but I agree with the statement that pretty
> >> > >> >> much everyone should be using the "severe service" maintenance schedule.
> >> > >> >> * *50K seems to be a common "severe service" interval for trans fluid
> >> > >> >> change.
>
> >> > >> >> nate
>
> >> > >> >> --
> >> > >> >> replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel-Hidequotedtext-
>
> >> > >> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> > >> >In my case, 'severe service' is called for. *I live righton a busy 2
> >> > >> >lane highway and have an uphill go for a mile as I leave the
> >> > >> >driveway. *All too often I have to get from 0 to 65 on a cold engine
> >> > >> >in a quarter mile to fit into the stream. *I do usually give a a
> >> > >> >minute or so warmup first but even that doesn't help much.
>
> >> > >> >Harry K
>
> >> > >> How will changing the oil more frequently help that situation? *The
> >> > >> new oil will still be just as cold.
>
> >> > > It won't be as diluted with fuel.
>
> >> > but so long as the engine did get warmed up at some point in the trip,
> >> > the starting point each morning will be about the same.
>
> >> I would suspect that high throttle opening operation while cold will
> >> dilute fuel more than driving gently, and also may put more
> >> particulates into the oil from incomplete combustion. *Also it does
> >> take a while at full-temp operation to vaporize all the fuel out of
> >> the oil, if in fact it ever does completely vaporize. *In any case, I
> >> would think that that would definitely qualify as "severe service"
> >> operation.
>
> >> nate- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> >My error. *I realized after posting thiat I should have added: *My
> >usual drive is only 4 miles to town, shop, 4 miles back so it does not
> >get properly warmed up.
>
> >That is about the epitome of 'severe service'.
>
> >Harry K
>
> OK, with that added tidbit I agree with you that you are not doing
> your car any favors and changing the oil fairly often is a good idea.
> All the car makers say all you need to do it just let the car run for
> maybe 30 seconds and you are good to go, no need to "warm" it up like
> in the old days. *With all the computer controls there is not going to
> be much fuel dilution but with your driving cycle I would expect there
> would be quite a bit of condensation. *Have you considered buying an
> electric motorcycle??- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes they do say 30 second is good but with teh added cavaet not to
'hammer' it until it is warmed up...well, words to that effect.

I'm a long way past my motorcycle days and I like a '12-month"
vehicle .

Harry K