More On Left Lane Driving

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 03:00:20 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:

>Dave Head wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 17:45:30 -0800, Scott en Aztlán
>> > wrote:
>
>>>How about you drive in the correct lane AND shake the duckling? The
>>>two are not mutually exclusive (no matter how many trolls pretent they
>>>are).
>
>> Yes they are.
>>
>> If I speed up and get in front of him, that's _rude_,
>
>What are you going on about. If he's a potential duckling going 2 mph
>faster than you, and you accelerate to 5 mph faster than you were going
>to get in front of him to pass (maintaining that speed until you return
>to the right lane), then how is that rude?
>
>> that's possibly
>> ticketable as aggressive driving,
>
>Not if you do it soon enough so that you're not actually cutting in
>front of him.
>
>> and it is damn sure ticketable as speeding.
>
>So is your current speed.
>
>> Remember, I'm 7 over already. If I add another 8,
>
>You don't have to add another 8. Another 3 temporarily will do just
>fine, especially if the differential relative to the car ahead of you
>was already around 5 mph.

Look, I'm not jumping in front of every car that approaches at a differential
of 2 mph. That would be silly. If I drive 2 mph faster, then

1) I'm going 9 mph - ok, fine, I can live with that, but

2) I would just as soon let him go around and not be "pushed" into a faster
speed, or be constantly doing something in reaction to someone else.

3) I do attempt to let him go by at 2 mph over. Ony when he slows to my speed
do I know that he's a duckling.

4) at the point I have a duckling, I have to add a lot more than 3 mph to get
in front of him. First, he's a duckling, and will accelerate with my attempt
to pass at +3 or so. If I'm gonna do this, I have to hit about +10 or so, over
the +7 I was already doing, and accelerate like hell, in order to catch him off
guard and to convince him that acclerating with me is faster than he wants to
follow me. At that point, I'm about +17 over. That's a ticket for sure. I
rarely see less than 2 cop cars on my 15 mile Rt 3 east of Fredericksburg
Virginia trips, and those are just the ones I see. There's probably some that
are hiding that I don't see. _I'm_ not getting caught at 17 over, period - not
on a routine basis. I'll end up with 5 ticket in a year, and no license.

So, I drive left. Ducklings can either follow in the left lane or get scraped
off at the next slower car in the right lane. I don't care. I'm just not
driving in the right lane and setting up a dangerous situation for myself.

Dave Head

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 03:07:41 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:

>Dave Head wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 02:55:41 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:
>
>>>>Come do it on Rt. 3 east of Fredericksburg, a 4 lane road not built to
>>>>Interstate standards. Your 15 mph will get you a speeding ticket. Your 20
>>>>will get you a reckless driving ticket.
>
>>>Try driving the US 460 bypass and I-81 near the Christiansburg area and
>>>report back to us. Sometimes, they do have police out, and that's why I
>>>use a radar detector. Police here don't have any concept of instant on
>>>radar when traffic density is moderate, which gives me plenty of warning.
>
>> Not sure where Christianburg is, but I've driven I-81.
>
>It's near mile marker 118 (closer to the southern part of VA).

Don't get down that way much.
>
>> I give up on the +7 on
>> that road just to keep from getting squished by trucks.
>
>But they can pass you on the right...

They're in both lanes doing about 90. The road is choked with 'em.

>> I drive to keep from being caught by trucks.
>
>Then why don't you try that with the "ducklings" you complain so much about?

'Cuz around here its not a life threatening situation. On I-81, it is.
>
>> Usually that is waaaayyy over the limit - the trucks
>> zoom downhill on I-81 at about 90.
>
>Nah, they don't go much more than 80 mph most of the time.

Whatever - that's "reckless driving" here as well. And, I've seen 'em at 90,
not rarely, too.

Dave Head

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 03:03:41 GMT, Arif Khokar > wrote:

>Alexander Rogge wrote:
>
>>> We've tried explaining it to you until we're
>>> blue in the screen, but you just don't seem to (want to) get it.
>
>> What Windows might say:
>>
>> "A Fatal Exception Error has occurred in module Incompetent Driver.
>> Illegal Operation in Lane 1. The application Driving has been halted.
>> You must now restart your car."
>
>try
>{
> KeepLeftExeptToPass();
>}
>catch
>{
> LEO.InitiateTrafficStop();
> LEO.IssueCitation(FAILURE_TO_KEEP_RIGHT);

Doesn't happen, tho... that part of the program must be broken...

Dave Head

>}

Dave Head wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 02:43:06 GMT, 223rem > wrote:
>
>
>>Are you an LLB on 'normal' interstates that are not
>>flanked by woods and where there are no deer?
>
>
> I'm often in the left lane, but usually passing everything else anyway.

What about those vehicles piling up behind you? Do you ever glance in the
mirror?

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 03:18:11 GMT, 223rem > wrote:

>Dave Head wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 02:43:06 GMT, 223rem > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Are you an LLB on 'normal' interstates that are not
>>>flanked by woods and where there are no deer?
>>
>>
>> I'm often in the left lane, but usually passing everything else anyway.
>
>What about those vehicles piling up behind you? Do you ever glance in the
>mirror?

They don't.

As I said, a couple days ago, if I'm in the left lane and seeing people in
front of me receding into the distance, and people behind catching up, I get
into another lane. Or, sometimes, I will speed up if I believe there's so many
others doing it my chances of a ticket are really low, like during the 45 mph
speed limits on the highways in Chicago that normally run about 70 mph. Hey, I
like to run supersonic speeds - its just a matter of the cop density around
here and the nutty attitude they have about something as innocuous as speeding.
I don't have a radar detector (other than one about 10 years old that I
wouldn't trust any more anyway) and I have a different profile for dealing with
things right now. I will move out of Virginia as soon as I retire, and then I
will be able to adopt a more reasonable profile.

Dave Head

Dave Head > wrote in
:

> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my
> left rear at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around
> and I'm an _enabler_

I don't consider you an "enabler" because you are doing what you are
supposed to be doing.The LLB is the one doing the blocking.
It's not your duty to let people around him.

> for not accelerating or braking. IOW, I'm
> supposed to do something about _his_ bad driving? Don't think so...
>
> Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or
> whatever, and you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing
> the LLB thing. So, if I stay in the right lane, things just get worse
> for everybody.
>
> At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically
> by the slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just
> fine... on the right.
>
> Fact is, there's gonna be an LLB one way or the other, most of the
> time. If I stay in the right lane, you won't be able to get around
> the LLB in the left lane. If _I_ am in the left lane, you _will_ be
> able to get around because the right lane will be clear, most of the
> time.
>
> Dave Head
>

All this is just rationalization of your doing the wrong thing.
(left-lane driving)

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net

Around 12/4/2004 6:32 PM, Dave Head wrote:

> On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:47:31 -0800, Garth Almgren > wrote:
>
>>Around 12/4/2004 9:05 AM, Dave Head wrote:
>>
>>>OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my left rear
>>>at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around and I'm an
>>>_enabler_ for not accelerating or braking.
>>
>>I wouldn't call you an enabler, but accelerating or braking to dislodge
>>them would be the nice thing to do.
>
>
> I would call someone who didn't do something about a duckling an LLB enabler.
>
> Now to explore the options.
>
> First, acclerating is out of the question.

Never!

> Rt. 3 east of Fredericksburg, Va.
> has, most of the time, 2 to 3 police vehicles, a combination of sheriff's cars
> from 2 counties plus the state police. I'm driving 7 over because they ignore
> it. I'm not accelerating to the 15 or so over that is required to exercise the
> maneuver of getting in front of the duckling.

So, why punish everyone else for something you're afraid to do? Slow
down to 5 over, and leave yourself a little leeway.


> The other option is hitting the brakes. Most of the ducklings will brake too.

Then you're not braking hard enough.

> If they don't, then I end up _behind_ them going 1 - 3 mph less, because
> they'll drop back to the speed of the next car they catch in the right lane,
> just like they did to me.

Then it's time to start exercising your "flash-to-pass" muscles, and
perhaps "Muggins'" charge and brake routine...


>>> IOW, I'm supposed to do something
>>>about _his_ bad driving? Don't think so...
>>
>>You're under no obligation to do something about their bad driving, but
>>again it would be the nice thing to do. "Do unto others" and all that.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or whatever, and
>>>you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing the LLB thing.
>>
>>What, out of the blue? How come you didn't see this slower car before
>>you got stuck behind it? You should have seen the slower traffic, speed
>>up,
>
>
> No speeding up!

Why the heck not?

> 7 over is about the most I'm going to go on SR 3. Cops all over the place...

Well, then slow down. You said so yourself that you've only got two
options, and you're afraid of one, so the only thing to do is try the
other. Either one you choose, it's better than giving in to the dark
side and becoming that which you hate.

>>and gotten in front of the LLB before getting stuck.
>
>
> And this maneuver could be construed as aggressive driving.

Except that it's not really. It is a decisively swift precision pass,
just like they should have taught you in driver's ed. Safest way to do
it, in fact.

> THere's a hot button for that with most cops here.

And I think we can agree that most cops are morons when it comes to
anything relating to actual safety, like LLBing and minimizing passing time.


>>> So, if I stay in the right lane, things just get worse for everybody.
>>
>>So, don't stay. Speed up, pass on the left, and return to your chosen
>>cruising speed in the right lane once you've passed slower traffic.
>
>
> Then I end up going back and forth, back and forth, from right to left to
> right.

So, you *are* afraid of changing lanes? What, are your mirrors broken or
something? There's nothing wrong with going back and forth, back and
forth. It's called passing, and that's what you're *suppose* to do when
you pass.

> THAT ALSO attracts the attention of the cops, who will attempt to
> figure out some kinda charge for it.

So, the less time you spend in the left lane, the less you have to worry
about police.

> Speeding is usually easy, and I _am_ 7
> over. But if I'm 7 over in the left lane, I'm just like half the other cars
> around here. You have to remember I'm not alone around here. There's lotsa
> people driving the left lane.

That doesn't make it right.

> When I find a slower one, I pass 'em on the
> right. If a faster one finds me, they pass me on the right.

Now, wouldn't it be easier if the slower guy was on the right to begin with?

> Mostly. Every
> now and then there's a hardhead that will just tailgate (but never use the horn
> or flash the lights). I just let 'em.

Now *that's* dangerous.

>>Ever wonder why you are one of the only "regulars" here that seems to be
>>having trouble with putting this concept into practice?
>
>
> I suspect I'm just one of the only regulars that will point out how pointless
> and counterproductive it is to attempt to do it the way a lot of people are
> suggesting.

It is not in any way pointless and counterproductive. I find it to be
far more relaxing to drive properly, keeping right except to pass slower
vehicles, and I live in one of the top 5 worst cities in the country for
traffic.


>>>At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically by the
>>>slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just fine... on the
>>>right.
>>
>>If there is room for you to be passed on the right, you should be in the
>>right lane. End of story.
>
>
> Nice mantra, but in practice, it really sucks for everybody.

It's bliss for me. You should actually *try* driving properly some day.
You might enjoy it.


>>>Fact is, there's gonna be an LLB one way or the other,
>>
>>There would be one less if you would stop contributing to the problem.
>
>
> I do stop contributing to the problem, but preventing the ducklings from
> succeeding in clogging up the road.

By becoming a duckling yourself? "If you can't beat them, join them"
doesn't fly with me.


>>>most of the time. If I
>>>stay in the right lane, you won't be able to get around the LLB in the left
>>>lane.
>>
>>Why not? Are you legally blind or something?
>
>
> 'Cuz I'll be in the right lane, and the duckling will be LLBing on my left
> rear.

So, get rid of him. Don't be a wuss, man!

>>IOW, what prevents you from driving exactly like most of us do, and keep
>>right except to pass? Are you afraid of making lane changes or something?
>
>
> As a matter of fact, yes. 1st, they're just something else to go wrong, plus
> they attract police attention.

Who the heck cares? You'll be driving properly, and that's all that
matters. Let the police pull over the LLB duckling for once.


>>> If _I_ am in the left lane, you _will_ be able to get around because the
>>>right lane will be clear, most of the time.
>>
>>Which is just plain wrong.
>
>
> No, its a fact.

And just plain wrong. If "the right lane will be clear, most of the
time" then you should be IN the right lane, "most of the time."


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

Around 12/4/2004 6:01 PM, Dave Head wrote:

> Simple.
>
> 1) At 7 mph over the limit, I am passing most everything else around here.
> Nothing is keeping pace with me on the right. The right lane is mostly clear.

Mostly clear, eh? Sounds like that's the place to be! No traffic, nobody
frantically trying to pass LLBs on the wrong side, nothing to worry
about unless you come up on slower traffic; Paradise!


--
~/Garth |"I believe that it is better to tell the truth than a lie.
Almgren | I believe it is better to be free than to be a slave.
******* | And I believe it is better to know than to be ignorant."
for secure mail info) --H.L. Mencken (1880-1956)

On 5 Dec 2004 03:51:28 GMT, Jim Yanik .> wrote:

>Dave Head > wrote in
:
>
>> OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my
>> left rear at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around
>> and I'm an _enabler_
>
>I don't consider you an "enabler" because you are doing what you are
>supposed to be doing.The LLB is the one doing the blocking.
>It's not your duty to let people around him.

Yabbut... if I drive left, I can prevent these situations (without increasing
my liklihood of having bad things happening like tickets, accidents, etc.)

>> for not accelerating or braking. IOW, I'm
>> supposed to do something about _his_ bad driving? Don't think so...
>>
>> Then we both catch a slower car, I get slowed down to 58 mph or
>> whatever, and you get 2 cars in the right lane plus the duckling doing
>> the LLB thing. So, if I stay in the right lane, things just get worse
>> for everybody.
>>
>> At least when I drive left, the duckling is scraped off periodically
>> by the slower car in the right lane, and other people can pass me just
>> fine... on the right.
>>
>> Fact is, there's gonna be an LLB one way or the other, most of the
>> time. If I stay in the right lane, you won't be able to get around
>> the LLB in the left lane. If _I_ am in the left lane, you _will_ be
>> able to get around because the right lane will be clear, most of the
>> time.
>>
>> Dave Head
>>
>
>All this is just rationalization of your doing the wrong thing.
>(left-lane driving)

Wrong by your anachronistic thinking, that's all. This stuff usta be the
thing to do. Not anymore. There's no real law saying you have to drive in the
right lane lotsa places - as Jaybird has pointed out in the thread about the
cop doing 90 in the left lane for miles - and its not enforced _anywhere_ I
know of. I don't obey laws that aren't enforced. There's some New England
town where Indians can't come into the town at all, according to a law still on
the books... but unenforced. They don't enforce it any more because its a bad
idea. Same with this nonsense. The traffic flows much smoother if the fast
people are left, the not-so-fast people are right, and those that want to pass
actually use headlight flashes or horns or something. Lacking that, they have
to pass on the right.

Dave Head

Jim Yanik wrote:

> Dave Head > wrote in
> :

>>OK, say I stay right and the typical duckling comes up and sits on my
>>left rear at 62 mph. Now _he's_ an LLB that people _can't_ get around
>>and I'm an _enabler_

> I don't consider you an "enabler" because you are doing what you are
> supposed to be doing.The LLB is the one doing the blocking.
> It's not your duty to let people around him.

It may not be, but it's not really safe to drive for any extended period
of time (more than 30 seconds) in close proximity to another vehicle.