Rotors...

Guys... don't have the work order here on my brakes. But I will get tomorrow
and re-write it, word for word. Then, you tell me what is going on. Stay
tuned.

Thx.

Brad



"Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
...
> Jim, you're RIGHT! Arent I almost always on YOUR side?
>
> But i do my OWN repairs, always had until I made good money, then a
> professional 'friend' replaced my leaky escort water pump. Which bearing
> then went out and ruined the engine 30,000 later.
>
> And which same "friend" I saw scam ANOTHER acquaintance with a new PCM on
> a fox tbird when the obvious fail was the relay in the kick-panel. I
> freakin SAW the evidence on his COUNTER!
>
> Since then, I went BACK to doing my own. Because the ONLY GOOD shop I
> knew of always has a 1-2 week backlog.
>
> So, I say to those who read this.. if you have a shop that treats you
> right, NEVER try to low-ball them. Whether you DIY or pay for service,
> NEVER low-ball parts either.
>
> Never install cheap pads, or cheap rotors, either. But if your brakes
> work right, they work right... up to you.
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in
> news:u%5Ze.305121$on1.263577@clgrps13:
>
>> Thanks, Dave... in actuality there are many consumers on my side... on
>> a Friday night, these people are enjoying an evening with their loved
>> ones or are pre-occupied with a hobby or other interest. These folks
>> aren't bothered with shoddy, low ball repairs. They aren't worried
>> that they wont make it to work or their next appointment.
>>
>> There are those that are only concerned with "what's broke".... there
>> are those who prefer to avoid addressing a related concern on a
>> subsequent visit. It's a matter of taste.... we can drive from one
>> scheduled service to another, comfortable in the feeling that we wont
>> be stranded or embarrassed - or we can drive from one breakdown to the
>> next, bitching about the poor quality of service we doom ourselves
>> to....
>>
>>
>> "Dave Combs" > wrote in message
>> news
>>> Jim--
>>>
>>> As a professional you do indeed have an obligation to do the right
>>> thing whether moral or legal. I just had my injectors replaced on
>>> my '90 LX
>> 5.0.
>>> They said they could locate the bad one and replace it but there
>>> might be others going bad down the road so I agreed to have them all
>>> replaced.
>> They
>>> also recommended Ford OEM ones over the NAPA ones at a higher price,
>>> obviously, to which I agreed. So I guess I'm your kind of customer.
>>> As I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread when I used to do my
>>> own brake work I just replaced the pads but that's my problem. When
>>> I pay good
>> money
>>> for a professional job I expect a trouble free repair so I am. maybe
>>> the only one, on your side.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>>
>>> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
>>> newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12...
>>> > Well, let's take a brief interlude from the usual (and quite
>>> > evident)
>> "all
>>> > mechanics are asshole scammy *******s" and "all shops will pouind
>>> > it up yoiur ass hard enough to make you scream" and get into real
>>> > life.....
>> This
>>> > is no to say that there aren't scammy *******s out there, and
>>> > there's no lack of shops that make you supply you're own
>>> > vaseline.... BUT...
>>> >
>>> > Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar
>>> > things
>> many
>>> > times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
>>> > ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
>>> >
>>> > Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my
>>> > car, I would replace them....... these rotors may have you telling
>>> > folks my
>> brake
>>> > job stinks but I have no legal reason to fail them at this
>>> > time.....
>>> >
>>> > Isn't it interesting that everyone wants the "cheap bid" yet
>>> > everyone
>> gets
>>> > ****ed when the cheap bid proves to be cheap.
>>> >
>>> > FWIW... I serve what might be described as "high end" customers.
>>> > These
>> are
>>> > folks that insist on dependale, reliable vehicles. They aren't mad
>>> > at
>> the
>>> > price of the repair... they are mad at repeat repairs. They hate
>> visiting
>>> me
>>> > but they want me to be sure that they don't have to visit me
>>> > anytime in
>>> the
>>> > near future.
>>> >
>>> > The art of auto repair has many definitions... Some on this NG, if
>>> > they
>>> were
>>> > to meet me professionally, would probably consider me a "scammy
>>> *******"....
>>> > Truth of the matter is that I will service your vehicle in a manner
>>> > that will almost eliminate the chance of unexpected breakdowns....
>>> > Others
>> (like
>>> > my son) prefer to operate from one breakdown to the next all the
>>> > while insisting they "service" the vehicle regularly.
>>> > Unfortunately, I can't
>> see
>>> > how we can substitute the word "service" for the word "repair"....
>>> >
>>> > In my world, I have two options... replace suspect parts and be
>>> > called a scam artist.or fail to replace suspect parts and have the
>>> > quality of my repairs called into question. Surprisingly, I can
>>> > throw unecessary part after unecessary part at someones vehicle in
>>> > a vain attempt to cover my
>>> lack
>>> > of diagnostic ability and that would make me a "thorough
>>> > mechanic"....
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "BradandBrooks" > wrote in message
>>> > news:tpNYe.248966$Hk.208589@pd7tw1no...
>>> > Took my 5.0 into Ford for some brake work - a little squeaking and
>>> > a
>> mushy
>>> > pedal.
>>> >
>>> > (Car is a 93 and has 36,000 miles. Original brakes as far as I
>>> > know.)
>>> >
>>> > Well, they replaced the front pads but said the rotors are not too
>>> > good.
>>> Not
>>> > worth replacing, but that they will "warp quickly". WHAT the HELL
>>> > does
>>> that
>>> > mean? Either you replace them or not??? If I burned them out,
>>> > okay, I'm
>> a
>>> > dummy, if not, they will work. Ford techs, help me on this one.
>>> >
>>> > The brakes work nice now and the pedal is high and light. All stock
>> parts
>>> > btw...
>>> >
>>> > Thanks guys!
>>> >
>>> > Brad
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Okay guys, in case anyone cares... here is the workorder from my brake job,
word for word:


"Complaint: check and advise on brakes being spungy. seem to have squeal as
well.

Correction: Road test and confirm needs front pads and rotors possible. Can
save rotors but very disshed and will warp again very quickly. Also needs
rear drum machine."


So, what does that mean. Do I need new rotors?

Brad

And that is the correct spelling on the workorder.




"BradandBrooks" > wrote in message
newszLZe.556878$s54.82479@pd7tw2no...
> Guys... don't have the work order here on my brakes. But I will get
> tomorrow and re-write it, word for word. Then, you tell me what is going
> on. Stay tuned.
>
> Thx.
>
> Brad
>
>
>
> "Backyard Mechanic" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Jim, you're RIGHT! Arent I almost always on YOUR side?
>>
>> But i do my OWN repairs, always had until I made good money, then a
>> professional 'friend' replaced my leaky escort water pump. Which bearing
>> then went out and ruined the engine 30,000 later.
>>
>> And which same "friend" I saw scam ANOTHER acquaintance with a new PCM on
>> a fox tbird when the obvious fail was the relay in the kick-panel. I
>> freakin SAW the evidence on his COUNTER!
>>
>> Since then, I went BACK to doing my own. Because the ONLY GOOD shop I
>> knew of always has a 1-2 week backlog.
>>
>> So, I say to those who read this.. if you have a shop that treats you
>> right, NEVER try to low-ball them. Whether you DIY or pay for service,
>> NEVER low-ball parts either.
>>
>> Never install cheap pads, or cheap rotors, either. But if your brakes
>> work right, they work right... up to you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Jim Warman" > wrote in
>> news:u%5Ze.305121$on1.263577@clgrps13:
>>
>>> Thanks, Dave... in actuality there are many consumers on my side... on
>>> a Friday night, these people are enjoying an evening with their loved
>>> ones or are pre-occupied with a hobby or other interest. These folks
>>> aren't bothered with shoddy, low ball repairs. They aren't worried
>>> that they wont make it to work or their next appointment.
>>>
>>> There are those that are only concerned with "what's broke".... there
>>> are those who prefer to avoid addressing a related concern on a
>>> subsequent visit. It's a matter of taste.... we can drive from one
>>> scheduled service to another, comfortable in the feeling that we wont
>>> be stranded or embarrassed - or we can drive from one breakdown to the
>>> next, bitching about the poor quality of service we doom ourselves
>>> to....
>>>
>>>
>>> "Dave Combs" > wrote in message
>>> news >>>> Jim--
>>>>
>>>> As a professional you do indeed have an obligation to do the right
>>>> thing whether moral or legal. I just had my injectors replaced on
>>>> my '90 LX
>>> 5.0.
>>>> They said they could locate the bad one and replace it but there
>>>> might be others going bad down the road so I agreed to have them all
>>>> replaced.
>>> They
>>>> also recommended Ford OEM ones over the NAPA ones at a higher price,
>>>> obviously, to which I agreed. So I guess I'm your kind of customer.
>>>> As I mentioned in my earlier post on this thread when I used to do my
>>>> own brake work I just replaced the pads but that's my problem. When
>>>> I pay good
>>> money
>>>> for a professional job I expect a trouble free repair so I am. maybe
>>>> the only one, on your side.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Jim Warman" > wrote in message
>>>> newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12...
>>>> > Well, let's take a brief interlude from the usual (and quite
>>>> > evident)
>>> "all
>>>> > mechanics are asshole scammy *******s" and "all shops will pouind
>>>> > it up yoiur ass hard enough to make you scream" and get into real
>>>> > life.....
>>> This
>>>> > is no to say that there aren't scammy *******s out there, and
>>>> > there's no lack of shops that make you supply you're own
>>>> > vaseline.... BUT...
>>>> >
>>>> > Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar
>>>> > things
>>> many
>>>> > times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
>>>> > ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
>>>> >
>>>> > Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my
>>>> > car, I would replace them....... these rotors may have you telling
>>>> > folks my
>>> brake
>>>> > job stinks but I have no legal reason to fail them at this
>>>> > time.....
>>>> >
>>>> > Isn't it interesting that everyone wants the "cheap bid" yet
>>>> > everyone
>>> gets
>>>> > ****ed when the cheap bid proves to be cheap.
>>>> >
>>>> > FWIW... I serve what might be described as "high end" customers.
>>>> > These
>>> are
>>>> > folks that insist on dependale, reliable vehicles. They aren't mad
>>>> > at
>>> the
>>>> > price of the repair... they are mad at repeat repairs. They hate
>>> visiting
>>>> me
>>>> > but they want me to be sure that they don't have to visit me
>>>> > anytime in
>>>> the
>>>> > near future.
>>>> >
>>>> > The art of auto repair has many definitions... Some on this NG, if
>>>> > they
>>>> were
>>>> > to meet me professionally, would probably consider me a "scammy
>>>> *******"....
>>>> > Truth of the matter is that I will service your vehicle in a manner
>>>> > that will almost eliminate the chance of unexpected breakdowns....
>>>> > Others
>>> (like
>>>> > my son) prefer to operate from one breakdown to the next all the
>>>> > while insisting they "service" the vehicle regularly.
>>>> > Unfortunately, I can't
>>> see
>>>> > how we can substitute the word "service" for the word "repair"....
>>>> >
>>>> > In my world, I have two options... replace suspect parts and be
>>>> > called a scam artist.or fail to replace suspect parts and have the
>>>> > quality of my repairs called into question. Surprisingly, I can
>>>> > throw unecessary part after unecessary part at someones vehicle in
>>>> > a vain attempt to cover my
>>>> lack
>>>> > of diagnostic ability and that would make me a "thorough
>>>> > mechanic"....
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > "BradandBrooks" > wrote in message
>>>> > news:tpNYe.248966$Hk.208589@pd7tw1no...
>>>> > Took my 5.0 into Ford for some brake work - a little squeaking and
>>>> > a
>>> mushy
>>>> > pedal.
>>>> >
>>>> > (Car is a 93 and has 36,000 miles. Original brakes as far as I
>>>> > know.)
>>>> >
>>>> > Well, they replaced the front pads but said the rotors are not too
>>>> > good.
>>>> Not
>>>> > worth replacing, but that they will "warp quickly". WHAT the HELL
>>>> > does
>>>> that
>>>> > mean? Either you replace them or not??? If I burned them out,
>>>> > okay, I'm
>>> a
>>>> > dummy, if not, they will work. Ford techs, help me on this one.
>>>> >
>>>> > The brakes work nice now and the pedal is high and light. All stock
>>> parts
>>>> > btw...
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks guys!
>>>> >
>>>> > Brad
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Sounds like the rotors can be cut one more time to "even them out", but
they're close to the borderline so they'll probably warp again in the
not-too-distant future. Also sounds like the rear drums need to be
machined (cut).

Since you're getting new pads up front, I'd also spring for the new
rotors and be done with it. You might also want to consider upgrading
the pad/rotor combo. Check out PowerSlot rotors and Hawk pads for
starters.

Joe
Calypso Green '93 5.0 LX AOD hatch with a few goodies
Black '03 Dakota 5.9 R/T CC


"BradandBrooks" > wrote in
news:0D4_e.559945$s54.81303@pd7tw2no:

> Okay guys, in case anyone cares... here is the workorder from my
> brake job, word for word:
>
>
> "Complaint: check and advise on brakes being spungy. seem to have
> squeal as well.
>
> Correction: Road test and confirm needs front pads and rotors
> possible. Can save rotors but very disshed and will warp again very
> quickly. Also needs rear drum machine."
>
>
> So, what does that mean. Do I need new rotors?
>
> Brad
>
> And that is the correct spelling on the workorder.

"Jim Warman" > wrote in
newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12:

> Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar things
> many times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
> ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
>
> Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my car,
> I would replace them.......

Not a judgment call in any way. The rotors are defined and have a legal and
non-legal specification in any state's lawbooks. A mechanic who makes a
judgement call on rotors has not pulled out his caliper. The only judgement
call is when the rotor is within a few thousands of spec, and even the
lawbooks give a healthy margin of error for that one.

"elaich" > wrote in message ...
> "Jim Warman" > wrote in
> newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12:
>
> > Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar things
> > many times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
> > ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
> >
> > Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my car,
> > I would replace them.......
>
> Not a judgment call in any way. The rotors are defined and have a legal
and
> non-legal specification in any state's lawbooks. A mechanic who makes a
> judgement call on rotors has not pulled out his caliper. The only
judgement
> call is when the rotor is within a few thousands of spec, and even the
> lawbooks give a healthy margin of error for that one.

There's actually a statute on the books defining rotor specifications?? That
I find incredible. Can you direct me to a specific statute? I would like to
read first hand what it says.

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:32:53 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:

>
>"elaich" > wrote in message ...
>> "Jim Warman" > wrote in
>> newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12:
>>
>> > Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar things
>> > many times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
>> > ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
>> >
>> > Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my car,
>> > I would replace them.......
>>
>> Not a judgment call in any way. The rotors are defined and have a legal
>and
>> non-legal specification in any state's lawbooks. A mechanic who makes a
>> judgement call on rotors has not pulled out his caliper. The only
>judgement
>> call is when the rotor is within a few thousands of spec, and even the
>> lawbooks give a healthy margin of error for that one.
>
>There's actually a statute on the books defining rotor specifications?? That
>I find incredible. Can you direct me to a specific statute? I would like to
>read first hand what it says.

I suspect the only thing anyone will find is that in states/countries
with socialist/communist "inspection" (auto shop full employment act
and protection racket) laws they would more or less fall under "failed
inspection/defective part" scam.

"Ashton Crusher" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 11:32:53 GMT, "Richard" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"elaich" > wrote in message ...
> >> "Jim Warman" > wrote in
> >> newsL1Ze.189738$wr.36340@clgrps12:
> >>
> >> > Someone said your rotors aren't too good.... I've said similar things
> >> > many times.... Not being able to see yours, leaves me (and the scammy
> >> > ******* advocates) at a disadvantage.
> >> >
> >> > Your rotors aren't too good can also mean.... if they were on my car,
> >> > I would replace them.......
> >>
> >> Not a judgment call in any way. The rotors are defined and have a legal
> >and
> >> non-legal specification in any state's lawbooks. A mechanic who makes a
> >> judgement call on rotors has not pulled out his caliper. The only
> >judgement
> >> call is when the rotor is within a few thousands of spec, and even the
> >> lawbooks give a healthy margin of error for that one.
> >
> >There's actually a statute on the books defining rotor specifications??
That
> >I find incredible. Can you direct me to a specific statute? I would like
to
> >read first hand what it says.
>
> I suspect the only thing anyone will find is that in states/countries
> with socialist/communist "inspection" (auto shop full employment act
> and protection racket) laws they would more or less fall under "failed
> inspection/defective part" scam.

I'm almost willing to bet that such laws don't exist anywhere.

--
Richard

Rotors are stamped with a minimum thickness. Laws referring to auto
safety generally forbid exceeding limits on any part so stamped.

bradtx

Can you point me to any law referring to auto safety? I still want to see
for myself vs. blindly accepting what one supposes is the case.

--
Richard

'94 GT 'vert
Under Drive Pulleys
Transgo HD2 Reprogramming Kit
High Stall Torque Converter
4:10 Gears
Gripp Sub Frame Connectors (welded)
FRPP Aluminum Drive shaft
FRPP M5400-A Suspension
Laser Red

"bradtx" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Rotors are stamped with a minimum thickness. Laws referring to auto
> safety generally forbid exceeding limits on any part so stamped.
>
> bradtx
>

"Richard" > wrote in message
news:HX04f.203160$tl2.72558@pd7tw3no...

> I'm almost willing to bet that such laws don't exist anywhere.
>
> --
> Richard

Interesting perspective, and I dont know the answer specifically.
BUT, some shops refuse to cut below the minimum stamped for LIABILITY
reasons.
The manufacturer, under lawsuit, may have similar recourse to this as prima
facie
evidence.