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Thought about returning in a c5



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 26th 07, 05:47 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
PJ
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 407
Default Thought about returning in a c5

Lawrence Lugar wrote:
> a mid-engine vette won't decrease weight, nor increase 0-60 time
> it says so in the article....if anything, it'll just add cost for the sake
> of being 'exotic'
>
> i think it was the latest isssue of Road and Track. (forgot which magazine
> specifically, i subscribe to many)
>
> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>
>

All is not race/track in this market. Strap on a 914-6 or Lotus and
give a 'middie' a try in a wide variety of driving situations. (If yhou
have more money than I -- a lot more -- go Italian) Putting your fanny
near the CG with very low polar moment yields a lot of pure joy in road
sport. Don't judge by something like the MR2 or Fiero or some race cars
where the engine's center of mass is quite high.

>
>
>
>
> "ACAR" > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Oct 25, 5:53 pm, "name" > wrote:
>>>
>>> i've read about the mid-engine vette in a magazine...i've seriously
>>> considered the pros/cons...and i say, corvette should stick with it's
>>> front-engine design placement

>> If mid-engined is the way Corvette has to go in order to shed weight -
>> then so be it.
>> Ever increasing HP is gonna send insurance rates even higher. Corvette
>> has to find another way to boost performance.
>> A mid-engined platform should also allow for an AWD option. I'd
>> certainly go for that!
>>
>> Traditionalists will have the new Camaro by the time the C7 comes out.
>>

>
>


While fun to drive, mid-engine layouts (I speak to less expensive
criters that I've owned: MR2, Lotus, Porsche, & Fiero) have poor use of
interior volume. Storage, for a weekend trip is laughable. Any
production Corvette has to carry golf clubs... period.

Middies are a nightmare when it comes to maintenance accessibility --
the flat rate manual hours, for what we think of as simple tasks, are
sky high. Plumbing for cooling and a/c add weight and cost. Engine
layout, to keep vertical center of mass low, is a challenge.

The horsepower vs. insurance rate scare argument has been around since
the first Chrysler 300 -- circa 1950s -- and it doesn't prove out.

My Corvette insurance rates have dropped even though HP has increased.
Drunks, immature drivers and racing exposure all raise prices. My '02
costs less than does my '89 for all elements of the policy including
comprehensive. The liability and med coverages are much lower on the
'02 -- the car is safer! This year's bill is less than what I paid in
2005. (the result of placing less importance on ZIP code and more on a
driver's track record.)

--
pj
Ads
  #22  
Old October 26th 07, 09:32 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Bob I
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 316
Default Thought about returning in a c5

ACAR wrote:
> On Oct 25, 5:53 pm, "name" > wrote:
>>
>> i've read about the mid-engine vette in a magazine...i've seriously
>> considered the pros/cons...and i say, corvette should stick with it's
>> front-engine design placement

>
> If mid-engined is the way Corvette has to go in order to shed weight -
> then so be it.
> Ever increasing HP is gonna send insurance rates even higher. Corvette
> has to find another way to boost performance.
> A mid-engined platform should also allow for an AWD option. I'd
> certainly go for that!
>
> Traditionalists will have the new Camaro by the time the C7 comes out.
>


The 'vette IS a mid-engine forward mounted design. Mid engine means
between the rear AND the front wheels. The engine is behind the front
wheels. AWD isn't going to shed any weight. Look what a Z06 does to a
Lambo, and with 135 less horsepower.
  #23  
Old October 27th 07, 06:54 AM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Lawrence Lugar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Thought about returning in a c5

the best supercar for the street/everyday life...is by far, the 911 Turbo


ferrari's and lambo's, even the z06 is best at home on a track...driving it
in street conditions is like walking a wildcat on a leash in the park






"pj" > wrote in message
...
> Lawrence Lugar wrote:
>> a mid-engine vette won't decrease weight, nor increase 0-60 time
>> it says so in the article....if anything, it'll just add cost for the
>> sake of being 'exotic'
>>
>> i think it was the latest isssue of Road and Track. (forgot which
>> magazine specifically, i subscribe to many)
>>
>> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>>
>>

> All is not race/track in this market. Strap on a 914-6 or Lotus and give
> a 'middie' a try in a wide variety of driving situations. (If yhou have
> more money than I -- a lot more -- go Italian) Putting your fanny near
> the CG with very low polar moment yields a lot of pure joy in road sport.
> Don't judge by something like the MR2 or Fiero or some race cars where the
> engine's center of mass is quite high.
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "ACAR" > wrote in message
>> ups.com...
>>> On Oct 25, 5:53 pm, "name" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> i've read about the mid-engine vette in a magazine...i've seriously
>>>> considered the pros/cons...and i say, corvette should stick with it's
>>>> front-engine design placement
>>> If mid-engined is the way Corvette has to go in order to shed weight -
>>> then so be it.
>>> Ever increasing HP is gonna send insurance rates even higher. Corvette
>>> has to find another way to boost performance.
>>> A mid-engined platform should also allow for an AWD option. I'd
>>> certainly go for that!
>>>
>>> Traditionalists will have the new Camaro by the time the C7 comes out.
>>>

>>
>>

>
> While fun to drive, mid-engine layouts (I speak to less expensive criters
> that I've owned: MR2, Lotus, Porsche, & Fiero) have poor use of interior
> volume. Storage, for a weekend trip is laughable. Any production
> Corvette has to carry golf clubs... period.
>
> Middies are a nightmare when it comes to maintenance accessibility --
> the flat rate manual hours, for what we think of as simple tasks, are sky
> high. Plumbing for cooling and a/c add weight and cost. Engine layout,
> to keep vertical center of mass low, is a challenge.
>
> The horsepower vs. insurance rate scare argument has been around since the
> first Chrysler 300 -- circa 1950s -- and it doesn't prove out.
>
> My Corvette insurance rates have dropped even though HP has increased.
> Drunks, immature drivers and racing exposure all raise prices. My '02
> costs less than does my '89 for all elements of the policy including
> comprehensive. The liability and med coverages are much lower on the
> '02 -- the car is safer! This year's bill is less than what I paid in
> 2005. (the result of placing less importance on ZIP code and more on a
> driver's track record.)
>
> --
> pj



  #24  
Old October 27th 07, 03:10 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Bob I
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 316
Default Thought about returning in a c5

Unfortunately you have way too many compromises for it to be used as a
daily driver so the 'vette gets the nod once again.

Lawrence Lugar wrote:
> the best supercar for the street/everyday life...is by far, the 911 Turbo
>
>
> ferrari's and lambo's, even the z06 is best at home on a track...driving it
> in street conditions is like walking a wildcat on a leash in the park
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "pj" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Lawrence Lugar wrote:
>>> a mid-engine vette won't decrease weight, nor increase 0-60 time
>>> it says so in the article....if anything, it'll just add cost for the
>>> sake of being 'exotic'
>>>
>>> i think it was the latest isssue of Road and Track. (forgot which
>>> magazine specifically, i subscribe to many)
>>>
>>> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>>>
>>>

>> All is not race/track in this market. Strap on a 914-6 or Lotus and give
>> a 'middie' a try in a wide variety of driving situations. (If yhou have
>> more money than I -- a lot more -- go Italian) Putting your fanny near
>> the CG with very low polar moment yields a lot of pure joy in road sport.
>> Don't judge by something like the MR2 or Fiero or some race cars where the
>> engine's center of mass is quite high.
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "ACAR" > wrote in message
>>> ups.com...
>>>> On Oct 25, 5:53 pm, "name" > wrote:
>>>>> i've read about the mid-engine vette in a magazine...i've seriously
>>>>> considered the pros/cons...and i say, corvette should stick with it's
>>>>> front-engine design placement
>>>> If mid-engined is the way Corvette has to go in order to shed weight -
>>>> then so be it.
>>>> Ever increasing HP is gonna send insurance rates even higher. Corvette
>>>> has to find another way to boost performance.
>>>> A mid-engined platform should also allow for an AWD option. I'd
>>>> certainly go for that!
>>>>
>>>> Traditionalists will have the new Camaro by the time the C7 comes out.
>>>>
>>>

>> While fun to drive, mid-engine layouts (I speak to less expensive criters
>> that I've owned: MR2, Lotus, Porsche, & Fiero) have poor use of interior
>> volume. Storage, for a weekend trip is laughable. Any production
>> Corvette has to carry golf clubs... period.
>>
>> Middies are a nightmare when it comes to maintenance accessibility --
>> the flat rate manual hours, for what we think of as simple tasks, are sky
>> high. Plumbing for cooling and a/c add weight and cost. Engine layout,
>> to keep vertical center of mass low, is a challenge.
>>
>> The horsepower vs. insurance rate scare argument has been around since the
>> first Chrysler 300 -- circa 1950s -- and it doesn't prove out.
>>
>> My Corvette insurance rates have dropped even though HP has increased.
>> Drunks, immature drivers and racing exposure all raise prices. My '02
>> costs less than does my '89 for all elements of the policy including
>> comprehensive. The liability and med coverages are much lower on the
>> '02 -- the car is safer! This year's bill is less than what I paid in
>> 2005. (the result of placing less importance on ZIP code and more on a
>> driver's track record.)
>>
>> --
>> pj

>
>

  #25  
Old October 27th 07, 07:02 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Tom in Missouri
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 243
Default Thought about returning in a c5

I saved this note because I think the last line says it all about tires and
their importance.


----- Original Message -----
From: "The Corvette Doctor" <corvettedoctor@...>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:52 PM
Subject: Motorcycle Tires


> When talking about how much tires affect performance, I always think of a
> few stories. The first was about 15 years ago, I was out at a club with
> Gary and
> Brian when it began raining. They decided to head to Brian's house, and I
> was going to drop the bike off at home and pick up the van. Gary said he'd
> ride with me, so he could show me how to get to Brian's house.
>
> So we flew south from Delray down I95 running about 80-85 in the rain.
> Gary
> at first couldn't believe we were running that speed on a bike in the
> rain,
> and yet he felt comfortable, other than a bit of rain.
>
> At Hillsboro, I took the exit and basically never slowed down until I got
> to
> the light. He just about came unglued over that, and couldn't believe I
> just did that. I told him that is the difference between $35 motorcycle
> tires and $150 motorcycle tires. Almost anything will work in the dry;
> only the best works in the wet.
>
> Tires are the ONLY thing that hold you to the road. Everything else works
> with or against the tires, but without the tires, nothing works.
>




"Bob G." <rg327_remove_comcast.net> wrote in message
...
> >
>>Years ago I taught my kids this lesson with a Toyota Corolla. On OEM
>>tires the car was a poor handler, it wandered at speed and was very
>>sensitive to cross winds and poor pavement. The ABS seemed not to work
>>very well. Then I put a set of high performance Pirelli tires on the
>>car. Everything changed. They couldn't believe it was the same car.
>>They wore out those Pirellis in 20,000 miles but they learned a bit
>>about driving.

>
> Years (mid 80's) ago I purchased an new Audi 5000 for my daily driver
> came with Pirellis from the Factory.... WIFE liked (loved) that car so
> darn much she purchased an identical car (different) color for herself
> about a month afterward.
>
> Long story short... Her car was delivered with Continential Tires.
>
> Cars drove completely different, ...The following week "we"
> mounted a set of Pirelles on her car and she smiles for close to
> 200000 miles ....
>
> Tires make a BIG difference...
>
> Bob G.
> 64 72 & 98 Convertibles
> 76 & 79 Coupes
>



  #26  
Old October 27th 07, 07:11 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Tom in Missouri
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 243
Default Thought about returning in a c5

This is the exact impression I had when I test drove a '97 new back in the
spring of '97.

It was like leaving the Hertz rental car office and climbing into any
generic rental car - blah. It certainly didn't feel like a Corvette.
Granted, all I did was drive it around a few blocks, and never had the
opportunity to push it, but in just a regular drive, it felt just like any
regular car. I've never seen any other Corvette do that.


> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Awhile back I read a comment from someone who raced C5's
> professionally. As I recall, he said that you have to just have faith
> that the C5 will get through the corner as you don't get much
> feedback.
>



  #27  
Old October 27th 07, 09:57 PM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Lawrence Lugar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Thought about returning in a c5

if it's the 'vette...it's the c6, not the zo6, that's best suited for a
daily driver

but even then, there's a reason the 911 Turbo is known for being a supercar
for everyday
....so my vote still stands, firmly




"Bob I" > wrote in message
...
> Unfortunately you have way too many compromises for it to be used as a
> daily driver so the 'vette gets the nod once again.
>
> Lawrence Lugar wrote:
>> the best supercar for the street/everyday life...is by far, the 911 Turbo
>>
>>
>> ferrari's and lambo's, even the z06 is best at home on a track...driving
>> it in street conditions is like walking a wildcat on a leash in the park
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "pj" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Lawrence Lugar wrote:
>>>> a mid-engine vette won't decrease weight, nor increase 0-60 time
>>>> it says so in the article....if anything, it'll just add cost for the
>>>> sake of being 'exotic'
>>>>
>>>> i think it was the latest isssue of Road and Track. (forgot which
>>>> magazine specifically, i subscribe to many)
>>>>
>>>> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> All is not race/track in this market. Strap on a 914-6 or Lotus and
>>> give a 'middie' a try in a wide variety of driving situations. (If yhou
>>> have more money than I -- a lot more -- go Italian) Putting your fanny
>>> near the CG with very low polar moment yields a lot of pure joy in road
>>> sport. Don't judge by something like the MR2 or Fiero or some race cars
>>> where the engine's center of mass is quite high.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "ACAR" > wrote in message
>>>> ups.com...
>>>>> On Oct 25, 5:53 pm, "name" > wrote:
>>>>>> i've read about the mid-engine vette in a magazine...i've seriously
>>>>>> considered the pros/cons...and i say, corvette should stick with it's
>>>>>> front-engine design placement
>>>>> If mid-engined is the way Corvette has to go in order to shed weight -
>>>>> then so be it.
>>>>> Ever increasing HP is gonna send insurance rates even higher. Corvette
>>>>> has to find another way to boost performance.
>>>>> A mid-engined platform should also allow for an AWD option. I'd
>>>>> certainly go for that!
>>>>>
>>>>> Traditionalists will have the new Camaro by the time the C7 comes out.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> While fun to drive, mid-engine layouts (I speak to less expensive
>>> criters that I've owned: MR2, Lotus, Porsche, & Fiero) have poor use of
>>> interior volume. Storage, for a weekend trip is laughable. Any
>>> production Corvette has to carry golf clubs... period.
>>>
>>> Middies are a nightmare when it comes to maintenance accessibility --
>>> the flat rate manual hours, for what we think of as simple tasks, are
>>> sky high. Plumbing for cooling and a/c add weight and cost. Engine
>>> layout, to keep vertical center of mass low, is a challenge.
>>>
>>> The horsepower vs. insurance rate scare argument has been around since
>>> the first Chrysler 300 -- circa 1950s -- and it doesn't prove out.
>>>
>>> My Corvette insurance rates have dropped even though HP has increased.
>>> Drunks, immature drivers and racing exposure all raise prices. My '02
>>> costs less than does my '89 for all elements of the policy including
>>> comprehensive. The liability and med coverages are much lower on the
>>> '02 -- the car is safer! This year's bill is less than what I paid in
>>> 2005. (the result of placing less importance on ZIP code and more on a
>>> driver's track record.)
>>>
>>> --
>>> pj

>>


  #28  
Old October 28th 07, 12:12 AM posted to alt.autos.corvette
ACAR
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 205
Default Thought about returning in a c5

On Oct 26, 11:29 am, "Lawrence Lugar" > wrote:

>
> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>


While pure race track isn't what the Corvette is all about why would
mid-engine rule out RWD?
(I was thinking of AWD as an option to make the car more useful off
the track.)
And I wouldn't take R&T's assessment as the last word. Did R&T ever
predict that the C5 would weigh as little as it does?

Unfortunately, pj has a point about storage for golf clubs. The vast
majority of Corvettes are sold with automatic transmissions and see
little sporting use. Mid-engined might work if GM did something like
the RX8's "freestyle" doors for storage behind the seats. But the C7
is likely to be evolutionary, not revolutionary, and remain front-
engine, RWD.

  #29  
Old October 28th 07, 01:35 AM posted to alt.autos.corvette
Lawrence Lugar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 48
Default Thought about returning in a c5

lol - i think you have evolutionary and revolutionary confused with each
other - based on your sentence composition.

if the vette is to remain front-engine, rwd...then that'd be revolutionary;
to be evolutionary...it'd need to be mid-engine






"ACAR" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 26, 11:29 am, "Lawrence Lugar" > wrote:
>
>>
>> pure race, track cars should be rear-wheel drive.
>>

>
> While pure race track isn't what the Corvette is all about why would
> mid-engine rule out RWD?
> (I was thinking of AWD as an option to make the car more useful off
> the track.)
> And I wouldn't take R&T's assessment as the last word. Did R&T ever
> predict that the C5 would weigh as little as it does?
>
> Unfortunately, pj has a point about storage for golf clubs. The vast
> majority of Corvettes are sold with automatic transmissions and see
> little sporting use. Mid-engined might work if GM did something like
> the RX8's "freestyle" doors for storage behind the seats. But the C7
> is likely to be evolutionary, not revolutionary, and remain front-
> engine, RWD.
>



  #30  
Old October 28th 07, 04:38 AM posted to alt.autos.corvette
ACAR[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 28
Default Thought about returning in a c5

On Oct 27, 8:35 pm, "Lawrence Lugar" > wrote:
> lol - i think you have evolutionary and revolutionary confused with each
> other - based on your sentence composition.
>
> if the vette is to remain front-engine, rwd...then that'd be revolutionary;
> to be evolutionary...it'd need to be mid-engine
>

No, a revolutionary design would require a radical change, like mid-
engine. Evolution is more like the way the 911 has changed (or not
changed) over time. I think you are mixing up mutation (abrupt change
in form) with evolution (gradual, progressive change).

Whatever words are chosen, the Corvette is likely to retain its
current configuration if only to keep cost down. I can't see GM
investing in another sports car platform until they can regain some
market share and profitability.

But a mid-engined Corvette would shake the industry if GM could pull
it off at a low price point. Let the old farts put their golf clubs
into a Camaro, I say.



 




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