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1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related



 
 
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  #21  
Old October 13th 09, 11:24 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

On Oct 13, 2:34*pm, XS11E > wrote:
> "Tim M." > wrote:
> > The 2009/2010 Chevy Malibu is a world class family car that beat
> > the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry heads-up in most comparison
> > tests; the first domestic car to do so since the original Taurus
> > in 1986. Maybe a boring car from an enthusiast's standpoint, but
> > certainly not junk!

>
> It's junk as are all Chevrolets. CR once rated all Chevy models from
> 1957 to current as unaceptable due to frequency of repair. *That was
> some years back but things haven't changed.
>
> "The 2010 Chevrolet Malibu reliability score of 5.0 out of 10 is the
> Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates."
>
> Pathetic. *
>
> http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...gs/Affordable-...
>
> Notice, as expected, the Chevy shows the LOWEST reliability score of
> all cars listed?


Consumer Reports, on the LT 4-cylinder and the LTZ 6-cylinder 2009
Malibu: "reliability of the 4-cylinder has been above average and the
V6 average."

Consumer Guide: "Chevy has taken Malibu from the realm of rental fleet
darling to a must-see Best Buy in this highly competitive segment.
This midsize sedan stands out for its refined powertrains, smart
interior design, and value pricing. We especially like the smooth,
quiet 4-cylinder engine and frugal Hybrid. Considering a Honda Accord
or Toyota Camry? Be sure to add Malibu to your test-drive list. "

Consumer guide awarded the highest placing mid-size sedan in the
entire market at 73 points. That would be the Chevy Malibu Hybrid.
The Malibu LS and LTX 4-cylinder models scored 69 points and the LTZ 6-
cylinder model scored 71 points. The class average was 63 points.

JD Powers lists the Chevy Malibu at 5 stars for Overall Mechanical
Quality; the Toyota Camry at 4.5 stars. The Malibu gets 4.5 stars
for powertrain.mechanical quality, the Camry gets 3.5 stars. The
Malibu gets 5 stars for body and interior quality - mechanical, the
Camry gets 4.5. In fact, in every JD Powers quality rating there
is, except interior design (styling), the Malibu outscores the Camry.

Doesn't sound like junk to me, nor does it sound "pathetic."
Ads
  #22  
Old October 14th 09, 12:20 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Chris D'Agnolo[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 587
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

Tim, this is the US, facts don't trump 'gut'! (tongue in cheek) You're facts
are probably all correct, I don't doubt them but, allot of Americans have
been burned too many times by US automakers, to ever be 'fooled again' as
they see it. The short sighted American mfr's have for too many years, used
high quality marketing instead of high quality materials and instead of high
quality R&D!

To get these people back in their fold, they will have to build cars like
you are describing this vehicle, for year after year, slowly convincing
these people that they (the mfr) can again be trusted. Does Detroit have the
cash or the patience or the fortitude to do this the 'right way'?

That is to be seen and it is scary for American jobs. Thank goodness the
foreign mfrs were coerced into building here if they want to sell here or,
we'd be screwed!

I'm rooting for America here, I haven't fully given up on them but they are
going to have to buck the "American business model" of short sighted profit
mongers. Is there any chance of that? I do not know.

Chris
99BBB
"Tim M." > wrote in message
...
On Oct 13, 2:34 pm, XS11E > wrote:
> "Tim M." > wrote:
> > The 2009/2010 Chevy Malibu is a world class family car that beat
> > the Honda Accord and the Toyota Camry heads-up in most comparison
> > tests; the first domestic car to do so since the original Taurus
> > in 1986. Maybe a boring car from an enthusiast's standpoint, but
> > certainly not junk!

>
> It's junk as are all Chevrolets. CR once rated all Chevy models from
> 1957 to current as unaceptable due to frequency of repair. That was
> some years back but things haven't changed.
>
> "The 2010 Chevrolet Malibu reliability score of 5.0 out of 10 is the
> Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and Associates."
>
> Pathetic.
>
> http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...gs/Affordable-...
>
> Notice, as expected, the Chevy shows the LOWEST reliability score of
> all cars listed?


Consumer Reports, on the LT 4-cylinder and the LTZ 6-cylinder 2009
Malibu: "reliability of the 4-cylinder has been above average and the
V6 average."

Consumer Guide: "Chevy has taken Malibu from the realm of rental fleet
darling to a must-see Best Buy in this highly competitive segment.
This midsize sedan stands out for its refined powertrains, smart
interior design, and value pricing. We especially like the smooth,
quiet 4-cylinder engine and frugal Hybrid. Considering a Honda Accord
or Toyota Camry? Be sure to add Malibu to your test-drive list. "

Consumer guide awarded the highest placing mid-size sedan in the
entire market at 73 points. That would be the Chevy Malibu Hybrid.
The Malibu LS and LTX 4-cylinder models scored 69 points and the LTZ 6-
cylinder model scored 71 points. The class average was 63 points.

JD Powers lists the Chevy Malibu at 5 stars for Overall Mechanical
Quality; the Toyota Camry at 4.5 stars. The Malibu gets 4.5 stars
for powertrain.mechanical quality, the Camry gets 3.5 stars. The
Malibu gets 5 stars for body and interior quality - mechanical, the
Camry gets 4.5. In fact, in every JD Powers quality rating there
is, except interior design (styling), the Malibu outscores the Camry.

Doesn't sound like junk to me, nor does it sound "pathetic."

  #23  
Old October 14th 09, 04:14 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
mike[_6_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

On Oct 13, 4:24*pm, Geary Morton > wrote:
> In article
> Hmmmmm, that's a fairly slender inline six, which as I recall left lots
> of open space on either side of the engine compartment. *I wonder how
> the '59 would have fared had it been equipped with the wider 283 V8, or
> even better, the much wider big block 348. *I'm thinking it would've
> fared better.


those late '50s/early 60's Chevys with the X frames didn't
do all that great in the old demolition derby contests, no
hope vs Buick Electras and Merc Marquis, let alone
the full sized Mopars.

I would have liked to see a '59 Imperial for a true test of
Detroit Iron. X-Frames not so good in collisions.

**
mike
**
  #24  
Old October 14th 09, 05:20 AM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
XS11E[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 738
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

"Tim M." > wrote:

> On Oct 13, 2:34*pm, XS11E > wrote:
>> "The 2010 Chevrolet Malibu reliability score of 5.0 out of 10 is
>> the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and
>> Associates."
>>
>> Pathetic. *


> JD Powers lists the Chevy Malibu at 5 stars
> Doesn't sound like junk to me, nor does it sound "pathetic."


You're quoting the same people who rated the Malibu's reliability worst
of all cars in it's comparison?

Sounds like junk to me, I think you just helped me prove my point.


--
XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
The Usenet Improvement Project:
http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
  #25  
Old October 14th 09, 02:07 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

On Oct 14, 12:20*am, XS11E > wrote:
> "Tim M." > wrote:
> > On Oct 13, 2:34*pm, XS11E > wrote:
> >> "The 2010 Chevrolet Malibu reliability score of 5.0 out of 10 is
> >> the Predicted Reliability rating provided by J.D. Power and
> >> Associates."

>
> >> Pathetic. *

> > JD Powers lists the Chevy Malibu at 5 stars
> > Doesn't sound like junk to me, nor does it sound "pathetic."

>
> You're quoting the same people who rated the Malibu's reliability worst
> of all cars in it's comparison?
>
> Sounds like junk to me, I think you just helped me prove my point.


No, in the JD Powers published results that I quoted, five stars was
the highest rating, and only the Malibu achieved it.

The reliability projection that you are quoting is based on J.D.
Powers 3-year study of 2006 models, when the current Malibu didn't
exist (it was introduced in 2008) and shows that Chevrolets of 2006
had an average of 184 problems per 100 cars during that three year
period, as opposed to an average of 173 problems per 100 cars for all
2006 cars that J.D. Powers surveyed.

Now, given that J.D. Powers themselves rated the 2008 and 2009 Malibu
as being higher quality than the other cars in the mid-size sedan
class, and given that the 2008 and 2009 model Malibus are completely
different cars than the 2006 models; I would say that the "projected"
reliability of those models based on the 2006 results are likely to
prove inaccurate.

Even if not, having one additional problem for every 10 cars over a
three year period than the class average hardly seems like an honest
basis for calling a car "junk" or "pathetic."
  #26  
Old October 14th 09, 02:19 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 49
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

On Oct 13, 7:20*pm, "Chris D'Agnolo" > wrote:
> Tim, this is the US, facts don't trump 'gut'! (tongue in cheek) You're facts
> are probably all correct, I don't doubt them but, allot of Americans have
> been burned too many times by US automakers, to ever be 'fooled again' as
> they see it. The short sighted American mfr's have for too many years, used
> high quality marketing instead of high quality materials and instead of high
> quality R&D!
>
> To get these people back in their fold, they will have to build cars like
> you are describing this vehicle, for year after year, slowly convincing
> these people that they (the mfr) can again be trusted. Does Detroit have the
> cash or the patience or the fortitude to do this the 'right way'?
>
> That is to be seen and it is scary for American jobs. Thank goodness the
> foreign mfrs were coerced into building here if they want to sell here or,
> we'd be screwed!
>
> I'm rooting for America here, I haven't fully given up on them but they are
> going to have to buck the "American business model" of short sighted profit
> mongers. Is there any chance of that? I do not know.



I agree with your observations, Chris. I have owned Chevys, Buicks,
Fords, Triumphs, BMWs, Renaults, Datsuns, MGs, Mazdas, and more, and I
buy what I want based on the individual model, year, features, and my
own ability to deal with any problems that might crop up. I currently
own domestice and imported cars and motorcycles, and while I support
the U.S. economy whenever possible, no U.S. manufacturer is builidng
Miatas or Miata competitors right now, so I have a Mazda. But I know
people at work whose PARENTS had one bad experience with a Dodge Omni
or a Ford Tempo back in the 1970's or 1980's, and those people will
NEVER consider an American car. They are Honda or Toyota buyers for
life, regardless of the facts of the marketplace.

I once counted up all the cars and trucks I have owned in my 35 years
of driving, and the total is over 40. I have never once had a single
"lemon" or bad car. The 2001 BMW Z3 3.0i coupe that I bought
(coincidentally the most expensive car I've ever owned and the last
new car I bought) was probably the worst in terms of number of initial
problems and inability of the dealer network to fix (all under
warranty); the bottom of the line 1978 Renauly LeCar I owned (the
least expensive and first new car I ever bought) was better built and
used higher quality materials, but the difference wasn't that much.

Anyway, my Mom has a 2008 Toyota Camry 4-cylinder, and it's a nice
enough car, but it was outrageously expensive, and she keeps it
reliable by taking it to the dealer about every two months.
Meanwhile, my 2006 Chevy pick-up just gets its oil and filter changed
and has only revisted the dealer once in its lifetime.

Heck, I think I'd enjoy owning the 1959 Bel Air more than the 2009
Malibu, anyway!
  #27  
Old October 14th 09, 04:48 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
pws[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,424
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

Tim M. wrote:

> I agree with your observations, Chris. I have owned Chevys, Buicks,
> Fords, Triumphs, BMWs, Renaults, Datsuns, MGs, Mazdas, and more, and I
> buy what I want based on the individual model, year, features, and my
> own ability to deal with any problems that might crop up. I currently
> own domestice and imported cars and motorcycles, and while I support
> the U.S. economy whenever possible, no U.S. manufacturer is builidng
> Miatas or Miata competitors right now, so I have a Mazda. But I know
> people at work whose PARENTS had one bad experience with a Dodge Omni
> or a Ford Tempo back in the 1970's or 1980's, and those people will
> NEVER consider an American car. They are Honda or Toyota buyers for
> life, regardless of the facts of the marketplace.
>
> I once counted up all the cars and trucks I have owned in my 35 years
> of driving, and the total is over 40. I have never once had a single
> "lemon" or bad car. The 2001 BMW Z3 3.0i coupe that I bought
> (coincidentally the most expensive car I've ever owned and the last
> new car I bought) was probably the worst in terms of number of initial
> problems and inability of the dealer network to fix (all under
> warranty); the bottom of the line 1978 Renauly LeCar I owned (the
> least expensive and first new car I ever bought) was better built and
> used higher quality materials, but the difference wasn't that much.
>
> Anyway, my Mom has a 2008 Toyota Camry 4-cylinder, and it's a nice
> enough car, but it was outrageously expensive, and she keeps it
> reliable by taking it to the dealer about every two months.
> Meanwhile, my 2006 Chevy pick-up just gets its oil and filter changed
> and has only revisted the dealer once in its lifetime.
>
> Heck, I think I'd enjoy owning the 1959 Bel Air more than the 2009
> Malibu, anyway!


My parent's 1994 Camry has never been back to the dealership. My 1995
Honda Accord went in for service every 6 months until I received it this
month. Both cars have been extremely reliable.
The Accord, with 77,000 miles, is in a bit better shape than the Camry
with 164,000 miles.

Taking the 2008 Camry in every 2 months may help your mother's peace of
mind, but the Camry is a reliable car model with or without excessive
service/maintenance.
Yes, the Camrys are expensive, I agree.

Did you ever own a 1986 Ford LTD? That was a true lemon. The number of
things that went wrong with this car would take a while to type out. It
was owned by my parents, but I still ended up driving a 1990 Ford
Thunderbird SC that fell apart at a little over 100,000 miles, after
breaking 3 transmissions before it hit 90K.

It was not that many years back that I rented a Ford Mustang with 300
miles on it, a 2003 or maybe 2004 model.
That Mustang was an awful pig of a vehicle to drive, though it did not
break down, so I guess there was some improvement over the LTD and the
Thunderbird.

After watching my parent's Camry and many other imports easily go to
150K miles and beyond, I can not feel anything but contempt for the 2004
Impala that my neighbor bought and frequently took to the dealership for
warranty issues until it finally threw a rod, at 37K miles, and made it
back onto their lot, for some other sucker to buy, in less than 3 years.

The automotive sales numbers make a far stronger argument than either
one of us ever will.

Pat
  #28  
Old October 14th 09, 09:55 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Frank Berger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 286
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

pws wrote:
> Tim M. wrote:
>
>> I agree with your observations, Chris. I have owned Chevys, Buicks,
>> Fords, Triumphs, BMWs, Renaults, Datsuns, MGs, Mazdas, and more, and
>> I buy what I want based on the individual model, year, features, and
>> my own ability to deal with any problems that might crop up. I
>> currently own domestice and imported cars and motorcycles, and while
>> I support the U.S. economy whenever possible,


"Buying domestic" does not help "the U.S. economy." It helps the firm and
industry that makes the product, at the expense of firms and industries that
manufacture for export. So if you want to help GM by denying yourself a
better imported product, fine. But do not be under the delusion that it's
good for the economy. That is propoganda.


  #29  
Old October 15th 09, 03:38 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Lanny Chambers
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 832
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

In article >,
"Frank Berger" > wrote:

> "Buying domestic" does not help "the U.S. economy." It helps the firm and
> industry that makes the product, at the expense of firms and industries that
> manufacture for export. So if you want to help GM by denying yourself a
> better imported product, fine. But do not be under the delusion that it's
> good for the economy. That is propoganda.


Well, not completely. The workers who assemble domestic cars are fairly
likely to spend most of their pay locally. That helps keep bars,
casinos, and bowling alleys in business. Of course, this applies equally
to "foreign" models assembled in U.S. plants.

As a taxpayer, I want GM to succeed so I'll get some some return on my
involuntary "investment." But not enough to replace either of my Mazdas
with some lump of domestic coal.

--
Lanny Chambers
St. Louis, MO
'94C
  #30  
Old October 15th 09, 11:17 PM posted to rec.autos.makers.mazda.miata
Tim M.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 56
Default 1959 Bel Air versus 2009 Malibu - NMC but at least car-related

On Oct 15, 10:38*am, Lanny Chambers > wrote:
> In article >,
> *"Frank Berger" > wrote:
>
> > "Buying domestic" does not help "the U.S. economy." *It helps the firm and
> > industry that makes the product, at the expense of firms and industries that
> > manufacture for export. *So if you want to help GM by denying yourself a
> > better imported product, fine. *But do not be under the delusion that it's
> > good for the economy. *That is propoganda.

>
> Well, not completely. The workers who assemble domestic cars are fairly
> likely to spend most of their pay locally. That helps keep bars,
> casinos, and bowling alleys in business. Of course, this applies equally
> to "foreign" models assembled in U.S. plants.
>
> As a taxpayer, I want GM to succeed so I'll get some some return on my
> involuntary "investment." But not enough to replace either of my Mazdas
> with some lump of domestic coal.


My sentiments exactly. That's why I have a Chevy pick-up and a Mazda
Miata, a Harley touring bike and Ducati sportbikes. The moment
Harley builds a better sportbike than Ducati, I will buy one. The
moment Chevy builds a better lightweight sportscar than the Miata,
I'll buy one. If only Chevy could apply the world class formula they
have in the Corvette to a 7/8's or 3/4 scale Solstice/Sky, then I
could enjoy one of those!

Since my 401(k) and that of many, many other Americans typically holds
more domestic stocks than foreign stocks, obviously buying U.S.
products and keeping U.S. companies healthy (not to mention preventing
things like the stimulus package in the first place) helps our
country. That's not propaganda, but assuming that any imported
product is better than any GM product is propaganda, pure and simple.

 




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